2012 NBA Off-Season Thread

[Primetime]

You thinking the Clippers had a chance to even compete with the Lakers, Spurs or Thunder is laughable.

[nwfisch]

And FWIW, I said they SHOULD have made the WCF, not that they DID or that they WOULD.

I think the Clippers have (had) top 2 talent in the West at the PG and PF positions. Add in Butler and Mo Williams and I don't think its out of line to expect that talent to compete for a shot at the NBA Finals.

VDN is holding them back, and is holding back Blake Griffin's development, including his free throw shooting.

[Primetime]

If Shaq had a better coach than Phil Jackson, his free throw percentage could have risen to nearly 60%.

[MattD56]

And FWIW, I said they SHOULD have made the WCF, not that they DID or that they WOULD.

I think the Clippers have (had) top 2 talent in the West at the PG and PF positions. Add in Butler and Mo Williams and I don't think its out of line to expect that talent to compete for a shot at the NBA Finals.

VDN is holding them back, and is holding back Blake Griffin's development, including his free throw shooting.

the clipper's D sucks ass

[nwfisch]

the clipper's D sucks ass

But VDN isn't a bad coach amirite USC?

I mean he coached the 2009 Bulls

[MattD56]

But VDN isn't a bad coach amirite USC?

I mean he coached the 2009 Bulls

BECAUSE their D sucks?...no..that itself isn't really a solid reason

[nwfisch]

BECAUSE their D sucks?...no..that itself isn't really a solid reason

Meh. The Bulls have Thibodeau and play solid team defense.

I know not every team can do that, but with Jordan and Griffin in the paint there is really no excuse why defense can't be the mantra of the Clippers.

CP3 led the league in steals a few times as well, not the best barometer alone, but if he can be coached to give 100% each time on the defensive end of the court.

[Argath]

Vinny Del Negro is not a phenomenal coach but he's also not the only reason the Clippers are destined to suck

[nwfisch]

Vinny Del Negro is not a phenomenal coach but he's also not the only reason the Clippers are destined to suck

Well no of course not, and I wouldn't argue otherwise.

Hard to define an identity if the coach only runs basic high school offense and doesn't preach defense.

[Argath]

Well no of course not, and I wouldn't argue otherwise.

Hard to define an identity if the coach only runs basic high school offense and doesn't preach defense.

[MattD56]

Meh. The Bulls have Thibodeau and play solid team defense.

well, that's because he's a defensive guy...he was an assistant in boston before he went to the bulls

some good/great coaches are defensive gurus....but not all well-coached teams are great defensively because the tools aren't available to have a good team defensively or the skillset leans towards a high octane offensive team

jerry sloan's jazz teams are one example

you will be hard pressed,however, to find an incompetent team defensively that has won a championship in the last 20 years

know not every team can do that, but with Jordan and Griffin in the paint there is really no excuse why defense can't be the mantra of the Clippers.

this is where we get into context

jordan is the one with the defensive potential, he just hasn't show defensive consistency

griffin has always been a meh defender, i just don't think he is ever going to be that great on that end, other than being a good defensive rebounder

led the league in steals a few times as well, not the best barometer alone, but if he can be coached to give 100% each time on the defensive end of the court.

chris paul is the saving grace of the clippers D

other than him, there isn't alot of competence regarding the D

nick young is horse shit

[nwfisch]

I give the man credit. At least he established an identity.

Whether or not its successful is a different story.

If he could coach his guys to get stops in the postseasons, when the game slows down...

[nwfisch]

well, that's because he's a defensive guy...he was an assistant in boston before he went to the bulls

some good/great coaches are defensive gurus....but not all well-coached teams are great defensively because the tools aren't available to have a good team defensively or the skillset leans towards a high octane offensive team

jerry sloan's jazz teams are one example

you will be hard pressed,however, to find an incompetent team defensively that has won a championship in the last 20 years


this is where we get into context

jordan is the one with the defensive potential, he just hasn't show defensive consistency

griffin has always been a meh defender, i just don't think he is ever going to be that great on that end, other than being a good defensive rebounder


chris paul is the saving grace of the clippers D

other than him, there isn't alot of competence regarding the D

nick young is horse shit

Sure, that's the whole point of me saying VDN is a bad coach. I think he and Thibodeau are opposites in how good/bad they are.

Good point on Sloan's teams. (Malone and Boozer) weren't world class defenders from the 4.

The D'Antoni teams at least you knew night in and night out they'd put up 100+ a night. etc.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you get a coach ala Thibodeau, Griffin could be a respectable defender. We know he can leap offensively. The Clippers have (had) the talent to get to the WCF IMO. The coaching is setting them back a ton between limited adjustments and just bad coaching.

Nick Young is on the 76ers now FWIW

[MattD56]

Sure, that's the whole point of me saying VDN is a bad coach. I think he and Thibodeau are opposites in how good/bad they are.

the reason VDN is a bad coach is not necessarily because the D isn't that good, it's because he has tools like jordan to work with as a base in the post defensively(seriously, jordan is 7 feet tall and has great shot blocking ability, he has loads of defensive potential) and isn't great at utilizing them

guess what I'm saying is that if you get a coach ala Thibodeau, Griffin could be a respectable defender.

probably,though thibs can't make everyone a good defender(see: boozer)

i don't think you will hear one person say that VDN is a better coach than thibs, but thibs is a world class defensive coach

VDN is average

so, yes...thibs could probably make griffin a respectable defender

though i dont think that means that griffin has alot of potential on that side of the ball

know he can leap offensively. The Clippers have (had) the talent to get to the WCF IMO. The coaching is setting them back a ton between limited adjustments and just bad coaching.

debatable...the lakers and spurs are plenty talented offensively and defensively(i don't think the clippers are that talented on the defensive side of the ball)

i excluded OKC because we are under the assumption that the clippers would be taking the spot opposite to OKC

Young is on the 76ers now FWIW

who is he being replaced by? crawford? just as bad, if not worse

[JimLeavy59]

Not if Howard goes to LA, I think LA will give OKC a run for their money

He won't though the Magic will end up dealing to either the Nets or the Rockets.