How Long Till Rich Rod is Fired?

[JeremyHight]

I think Sportsbuck is forgetting something...

Michigan players only started doing squats just last year. With more experience with the lift, they will be damn near unstoppable!

lol, anyone else remember Kle going on and on last year how RR was going to make everything great in Michigan, only to have them go 3-9? Well, at least they don't need to go through Toledo this year, lol.

[longhornfan]

WTF? A truce? I was hoping you two would go back and fourth for about 3 pages.

[Woy]

I love me a good OSU-Michigan argument.

[FedEx227]

lol, anyone else remember Kle going on and on last year how RR was going to make everything great in Michigan, only to have them go 3-9? Well, at least they don't need to go through Toledo this year, lol.

Um... it's not very easy to run the spread option with a power rushing/passing team.

No program can switch offenses like that and be successful in their first year. There's always that drop off. He had fuckin Steven Threet as an option back...

[FedEx227]

Yeah, that was definitely a bad move, but I guess he wanted to get those returning a full-out idea of how the offense was going to run.

It was a stupid idea but it very well may benefit a lot of the returning guys this year.

[NAHSTE]

Yes. Because an entire top notch D1 football program is turned over in one season!!!

We'll see what everyone has to say as the spread becomes more popular in college football, and Michigan has already mastered it while the rest of the Big 10 starts moving into it and the rest of them take their year or two of struggling.

?

Northwestern has been running the spread/read option for 5 years, they run it better than anyone in that conference. Purdue has been running a passing version of the spread forever, Ohio State uses a ton of spread elements too.

LOL at you implying Michigan is ahead of the curve and every team will all be copying them soon. Sounds a lot like when you said Michigan's strength coach was doing techniques unseen anywhere else in CFB, even though olympic style lifts have been in use everywhere except Ann Arbor for decades.

[Buzzman]

Odom wasnt top 5 LOL maybe Top 20 he couldnt do anything unless he was in the slot and had a LB on him. Mathews though with a good Qb could be real good.

[NAHSTE]

I think Michigan losing to Toledo is just as bad as App St.

then you are a retard

That's a bit harsh. Appy State is a solid program, and I'm sure their talent level is comparable to Toledo's. They only lost to LSU 24-7 the year before beating Michigan, so it's not like they are a total doormat. Plus Toledo was a low finisher in the MAC.

I think App. State would be able to handle Toledo, and losing to Toledo is just as bad as losing to the Mountaineers.

LOL at Michigan for doing either however.

[Sven Draconian]

1) Tate Forcier is 5'10...tops. I'm 5'7 and when I stood next to him we were damn close. If we were to get into a fight, I would be able to snap him like a twig.

2) LOL at WVU winning with superior talent. Owen Schmidt wasn't even listed on Rivals, Pat White was a 2 star QB, Steve Slaton was a 3 star RB. Mozes was a 2 star as well. They were hardly loaded with stars.

3) Michigans S&C program should help develop players like it did at WVU. The previous program was awful, Barwis really modernized it and I'm expecting to say major improvements. For example, Brandon Graham dropped from 300 pounds when Rich Rod arrived and never having done a power clean and dropped down to 250s, gained it back to the 270s and can clean 465 (according to Barwis at a clinic). That was from february.

4) The Offensive Line should be much, much, much improved. They did steadily improve during the season last year and have 7 players back whos started at some point.

5) The running backs should be better. Minor is a good back and they go 3 deep behind him. Not sure they have a game-breaker here, certainly no Steve Slaton, but if the QB's can run than this group is dangerous.

Unfortunately, I don't see too many good things for the defense. Graham and Obi are solid. I liked what I saw out of Max Martin last year. The rest have a lot to prove IMO. Not a Donovan Warren fan at all. I really like the Greg Robinson hiring and I think he alone will vastly imporve their tackling, but I'm unsure of the back 7 as a whole.

I'm giving them a 70/30 chance of beating Western. The Broncos are pretty solid and Michigan is going to go with Freshman at QB and they face a pretty tough senior QB. Not a great matchup. I think the line for Michigan can win the game, but I wouldn't be shocked if they lost.

If they win convincingly in week 1, I think they win 8-9 games (including bowl). If they drop the opener I can see them struggling for bowl eligibility. They really need a confidence boost right now, and winning cures all ills. Unfortunatley, losing makes you sicker.

[NAHSTE]

I still don't understand the "you're starting a freshman QB so you're going to suck" argument. Again, I'll say...T-Force ran the *exact* same offense for four years in high school. Nearly the *exact* same playbook. He's not the typical true freshman, coming in, learning something entirely new, and having to learn on the fly. He's been doing this for four years already, and he just has to adjust to the speed, which shouldn't be that big of a deal considering his own team is going to be faster too, not just the defense...

Also, I know it's unrelated...but the last guy Michigan started as a true freshman has his name at the top of almost every school passing record...and nearly every freshman school passing record.

If you're talking about Chad Henne, he is not exactly elite company. In fact, he's pretty much a joke since he started all 4 years and never got better. And how hard is it to break a freshman school passing record? How many freshman QBs actually get to pass that much, especially at Michigan? As for the career records, more of an accumulation than an achievement IMO.

I don't know how MIchigan will do this year, but the last freshman QB to start for Michigan was an no talent assclown.

[dave]

The spread works in the SEC and southern U.S. states because the weather is co-operative.
In the Big 10, the spread just isn't practical as a full-time offence because eventually the weather will hit.

[Woy]

1) Tate Forcier is 5'10...tops. I'm 5'7 and when I stood next to him we were damn close. If we were to get into a fight, I would be able to snap him like a twig.

2) LOL at WVU winning with superior talent. Owen Schmidt wasn't even listed on Rivals, Pat White was a 2 star QB, Steve Slaton was a 3 star RB. Mozes was a 2 star as well. They were hardly loaded with stars.

3) Michigans S&C program should help develop players like it did at WVU. The previous program was awful, Barwis really modernized it and I'm expecting to say major improvements. For example, Brandon Graham dropped from 300 pounds when Rich Rod arrived and never having done a power clean and dropped down to 250s, gained it back to the 270s and can clean 465 (according to Barwis at a clinic). That was from february.

4) The Offensive Line should be much, much, much improved. They did steadily improve during the season last year and have 7 players back whos started at some point.

5) The running backs should be better. Minor is a good back and they go 3 deep behind him. Not sure they have a game-breaker here, certainly no Steve Slaton, but if the QB's can run than this group is dangerous.

Unfortunately, I don't see too many good things for the defense. Graham and Obi are solid. I liked what I saw out of Max Martin last year. The rest have a lot to prove IMO. Not a Donovan Warren fan at all. I really like the Greg Robinson hiring and I think he alone will vastly imporve their tackling, but I'm unsure of the back 7 as a whole.

I'm giving them a 70/30 chance of beating Western. The Broncos are pretty solid and Michigan is going to go with Freshman at QB and they face a pretty tough senior QB. Not a great matchup. I think the line for Michigan can win the game, but I wouldn't be shocked if they lost.

If they win convincingly in week 1, I think they win 8-9 games (including bowl). If they drop the opener I can see them struggling for bowl eligibility. They really need a confidence boost right now, and winning cures all ills. Unfortunatley, losing makes you sicker.

They did have 5-star back Jason Gwaltney, but after he got hurt, Slaton stepped in and the rest was history.

[Senser81]

2) LOL at WVU winning with superior talent. Owen Schmidt wasn't even listed on Rivals, Pat White was a 2 star QB, Steve Slaton was a 3 star RB. Mozes was a 2 star as well. They were hardly loaded with stars.

Thats nice. A lot of those guys ended up in the NFL. I remember the WVU days when they had Major Harris at QB and 4 white guys playing DB. WVU had a lot of NFL-caliber players under Rodriguez...to say otherwise is foolish. Then when you compare WVU to the rest of the weak Big East, you see how guys like Pat White and Steve Slaton would tear thru defenses.

And my point still remains that Rodriguez can't get the same type of player (athletic thug) admitted into Michigan...which is a big problem.

[Sven Draconian]

I still don't understand the "you're starting a freshman QB so you're going to suck" argument. Again, I'll say...T-Force ran the *exact* same offense for four years in high school. Nearly the *exact* same playbook. He's not the typical true freshman, coming in, learning something entirely new, and having to learn on the fly. He's been doing this for four years already, and he just has to adjust to the speed, which shouldn't be that big of a deal considering his own team is going to be faster too, not just the defense...

Also, I know it's unrelated...but the last guy Michigan started as a true freshman has his name at the top of almost every school passing record...and nearly every freshman school passing record.

I like how you dismiss the speed adjustment factor. Lets assume that the playbooks are similar (though, it's laughable to think his high school playbook was just as complicated as Rich Rods), heres something to consider.

While relative speed may be the same (IE, both teams are going faster) the human brains reaction time does not improve. Certainly a person can improve their reactions, but, there is a limit to how quickly our brain works. In short, regardless of how experienced he may be in high school, the players are going to move faster and his reactions aren't going to be spot on.

Further, you mentioned previously how great they looked in practice, without a live defense. Defense tends to change things.

As for the Henne arguement, you seem to be forgetting his freshman year. He had (arguably) the greatest WR in michigan history, Braylon Edwards, jumping over defenders making grabs for him. He frequently just dropped back and lobbed it up. Under pressure? Throw it to Braylong. 3rd down? Throw it to Braylon.

It was hardly some great feet of quarterbacking.

If you're talking about Chad Henne, he is not exactly elite company. In fact, he's pretty much a joke since he started all 4 years and never got better. And how hard is it to break a freshman school passing record? How many freshman QBs actually get to pass that much, especially at Michigan? As for the career records, more of an accumulation than an achievement IMO.

I don't know how MIchigan will do this year, but the last freshman QB to start for Michigan was an no talent assclown.

Err, uh I wouldn't exactly call him a no talent assclown. He was a second round pick. You are correct though, he never improved over his 4 seasons. He was a consistently good college QB, never great.

The spread works in the SEC and southern U.S. states because the weather is co-operative.
In the Big 10, the spread just isn't practical as a full-time offence because eventually the weather will hit.

The weather arguement is silly. What does it really effect? WR's catching? No, they all have gloves. QB's getting the snap? No, they have handwarmers. RBs catching a pitch? Again, no, they have gloves.

Bad footing helps the offense far more than the defense, it's much, much, much more difficult to cover a recevier if you can't plant and drive.

The regular season ends in November, often before the first snow of the year. You might get a cold game, but typically the worst weather you deal with is 40's and rainy Sure, it stinks, but it isn't going to ruin your spread offense.

[Sven Draconian]

Thats nice. A lot of those guys ended up in the NFL. I remember the WVU days when they had Major Harris at QB and 4 white guys playing DB. WVU had a lot of NFL-caliber players under Rodriguez...to say otherwise is foolish. Then when you compare WVU to the rest of the weak Big East, you see how guys like Pat White and Steve Slaton would tear thru defenses.

And my point still remains that Rodriguez can't get the same type of player (athletic thug) admitted into Michigan...which is a big problem.

The athletic thug portion is a good point, the michigan-heads explain away because "They won't need those kids." I don't know if it's true or not, but it definately cuts down on the recruiting pool.

My point is not that they wern't more talented, it's that they developed no-talent kids into NFL draft choices. If they can take relative "no names" like White, Slaton and Schmidt and turn them into NFL players, then imagine what they will do with 4 and 5 star recruits.

The arguement that they were way more talented than their opponents does an injustice to Rich Rod. They didn't start off more talented, they developed talent. It's not like Utah where they are a high class program than their competition, they simply out recruited and out coached their opponents to have more talented kids.