Lane Kiffin new USC Coach

[Sportsbuck]

Again, Ed Orgeron and Kiffin pulled in the number 1 recruiting class in the nation in their first year at Tennessee.

Where are you getting that from? They were #10 on Rivals and #8 on Scout.

Now they go to USC where there is no competition for recruits whatsoever. Not only that, but they now have connections in Tennessee and Texas (Dat Nguyen).

Tennessee really isn't that great of a recruiting state to begin with. And just because Nguyen worked in Texas doesn't mean that USC now has automatic connections in the state.. those connections come from relationships with HS coaches, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't working closely with HS coaches as an assistant coach with the Cowboys.

[Tailback U]

I would blame Notre Dame's troubles in the decade on an inability to consistantly recruit as well as having gusy that were not cut out for being college head coaches. With Kelly hopefully he brings the whole package together. It's tough to consistantly recruit at the top of the nation if you aren't seen as a consistant winner. Weis got the talent in but just wasn't a very good coach. Just because they go through rough times doesn't mean they still aren't a big time program. A lot of big times programs have gone through time periods. Notre Dame did in the late 50's, the early 80's and now. Bama has tough times, USC did before Carrol showed up. A lot of times the difference can be as simple as the guy that is the head coach.

I agree, and I'm just talking about the present.

When's the last time ND finished with a top 5 ranking? Top 10?

I agree that the head coach can make all the difference, just look at Boise St. But we are talking about recruiting here, and ND doesn't go after the lower class recruits that come from some of the most crime-ridden areas in America like other schools do.

This is a major reason why athletes at USC and Florida are constantly getting into trouble and athletes at Stanford and Notre Dame are not.

[Sportsbuck]

ND pulls in a few big recruits every year, but you are delusional if you think their classes compare to the real big time programs in college football.

Again, the big time recruits they do get are generally from mid/upper class areas and have met the academic standards that ND enforces.

ND recruiting class rankings (Rivals):
2006 - #8
2007 - #8
2008 - #2
2009 - #21
Avg: 9.75

You were saying?

[Tailback U]

Where are you getting that from? They were #10 on Rivals and #8 on Scout.

My bad, I just remember seeing Tennessee #1 at one point. I guess they didn't finish there. I don't follow recruiting that closely anymore.

Tennessee really isn't that great of a recruiting state to begin with. And just because Nguyen worked in Texas doesn't mean that USC now has automatic connections in the state.. those connections come from relationships with HS coaches, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't working closely with HS coaches as an assistant coach with the Cowboys.

Still gives them a connection.

And Dat Nguyen is a legend in Texas.

You are just scared because USC has now locked up all the vietnamese talent in texas.

[FirstTimer]

I agree, and I'm just talking about the present.

When's the last time ND finished with a top 5 ranking? Top 10?

Top 10 was in 2005 in the AP.

Top 5...probably 1993.

I agree that the head coach can make all the difference, just look at Boise St. But we are talking about recruiting here, and ND doesn't go after the lower class recruits that come from some of the most crime-ridden areas in America like other schools do.

This is a major reason why athletes at USC and Florida are constantly getting into trouble and athletes at Stanford and Notre Dame are not.

Agreed with that but at the same time I was just starting out with the idea Meyer brings in alot of issues. Even in comparison to other schools that recruit those areas. Perhaps my use of ND was a bit off but it was the first school I thought of.

[Sportsbuck]

Still gives them a connection.

And Dat Nguyen is a legend in Texas.

You are just scared because USC has now locked up all the vietnamese talent in texas.

Yeah but we've got an asian punter... AN ASIAN PUNTER!!

[ralaw]

ND recruiting class rankings (Rivals):
2006 - #8
2007 - #8
2008 - #2
2009 - #21
Avg: 9.75

You were saying?

LOL, seriously? Either ND sucks at developing talent or these recruiting services serverely overrate their classes.
Its of no surprise that ND is recruiting a different type of athlete from most schools and its always been like this.

[Irish]

lmao at that Weis pic.

FT, you can't compare Notre Dame's coach to any big time programs'.

First of all, Notre Dame is not a big time program anymore. They don't attract big time recruits.

Thats far from true. Notre Dame even through these bad years have been able to pull in a lot of great guys as far as the star system goes.

Secondly, they have standards that big time schools don't. They aren't recruiting the same type of athlete/kid at all.

This is true. ND like schools Vandy, Duke, and Stanford make sure the athletes coming in are students first and athletes second. Most of the big time schools that recruit well like Florida, USC, UT, Bama, and Texas dont really make a big deal when it comes to academics so naturally the guy who is 6'5 with a 4.3 forty wants the fast track to the NFL which isnt thru south bend.

The fact that they can actually maintain to still be somewhat relevant in todays college football really shows that it still is a big time program.

/defend my notre dame honor

[Irish]

LOL, seriously? Either ND sucks at developing talent or these recruiting services serverely overrate their classes.
Its of no surprise that ND is recruiting a different type of athlete from most schools and its always been like this.

That was weis's main criticism beside never workin with the defense. He treated guys like NFL talented players that need a scheme to win. Rather than develop and coach.

[Sportsbuck]

LOL, seriously? Either ND sucks at developing talent or these recruiting services serverely overrate their classes.
Its of no surprise that ND is recruiting a different type of athlete from most schools and its always been like this.

They pretty much suck at developing talent. Sam Young was the nation's top lineman coming out of HS... and look at what he became in South Bend.

The whole ND recruits a different type of athlete thing is overblown, but thats JMHO.

[Tailback U]

I guess I shouldn't have said ND isn't a big time program.

What I meant was that you won't see 7 guys on the ND defense go to the NFL like USC just had last year.

Because USC can give a scholarship to any criminal off the street that can run a 4.3, ND can't.

I'm actually praising ND here, guys.

There just aren't that many 5-star high school athletes that have a 4.0 and 1200 SAT.

[FirstTimer]

LOL, seriously? Either ND sucks at developing talent or these recruiting services serverely overrate their classes.
Its of no surprise that ND is recruiting a different type of athlete from most schools and its always been like this.

Which would explain why Ty and Charlie were fired....
Plus Ty couldn't recruit his way out of a wet paper sack for most of his tenure.

[Sportsbuck]

[ralaw]

They pretty much suck at developing talent. Sam Young was the nation's top lineman coming out of HS... and look at what he became in South Bend.

The whole ND recruits a different type of athlete thing is overblown, but thats JMHO.

Which would explain why Ty and Charlie were fired....
Plus Ty couldn't recruit his way out of a wet paper sack for most of his tenure.

Nope it's true. Phil Steele uses an aggregate of all the recruiting services and ND was often in the top 5. The problem is that some big names like James Aldridge and Sam Young didn't develop as planned and there weren't that many big names brought in along either the offensive or defensive line. They had to live and die with the skill guys they got every year.

That was weis's main criticism beside never workin with the defense. He treated guys like NFL talented players that need a scheme to win. Rather than develop and coach.

So, the question is whether Kelly can develop talent? We all know scheme wise (offensively) he is fine, but Weis was a good offensive guy himself.
Eh, there's too much ND talk in here...more Kiffin....more USC.

[FirstTimer]

Nope it's true. Phil Steele uses an aggregate of all the recruiting services and ND was often in the top 5. The problem is that some big names like James Aldridge and Sam Young didn't develop as planned and there weren't that many big names brought in along either the offensive or defensive line. They had to live and die with the skill guys they got every year.

Aldridge never recovered fully from a HS knee injury either.

I mean Ty Willingham in 3 years of recruiting only brought in 6 OL. 6!?!?!?..and didn't develop the one good class he had.

That's the type of shit that we had to deal with....then we actually get a coach who can recruit(Weis) and he can't develop players..outside of two seasons when he coached up Ty's guys in 2005 and 2006..on offense. I think Weis was a great offensive talent evaluator and developer of skill guys but he coul dnever figure out the defense and the OL was a huge issue until he hired Verducci