Dave sees Bill Simmons' top-32 QBs and raises him with his top-32 QBs (NFL)

[Rayman]

Rodgers produces more with less than Romo, IMO.
No QB in the league has the luxury of that three-headed RB monster Romo has.
And Romo's WRs and TE are better than Rodgers'.
Because of that, Romo's numbers should be significantly better than Rodgers.
And, Romo only won one playoff game. Yes, I weighted playoff success into this, but one playoff win does not equal playoff success.

lol @ Romo's numbers should be significantly better. How much better would you like them to be?

Yeah, Romo has little to do with the success of his receivers, one of which has been a miserable failure as a Dallas Cowboy, the other an UDFA who before 2009, no one outside of Cowboy fans could've picked out in a lineup. The third receiver was a 6th round pick whose mouth was bigger than his game followed by a couple more UDFAs.

Yep, that receiving corps is All-World next to Green Bay's. Nevermind the fact that Green Bay's guys were all drafted by the organization and were major contributors to the Packer offense by the time Rodgers got under center, with the exception of Jordy Nelson - who was a 2nd round pick himself. Top to bottom, before the arrival of Dez Bryant, Rodgers' receivers shat all over Romo's from a pedigree standpoint. Rodgers' guys were already in place for him and he went 6-10. With the exception of Roy Williams, Romo's guys have grown with him, not before him.

The only place you can make an argument Romo has better talent is TE, where Witten has the best all-around game. But Jermichael Finley is no scrub.

As far as the "luxury of a three headed monster" Green Bay's running backs are far from trash, and Marion Barber has been a mess the last two years. Felix Jones has been banged up in that time frame. I want to see him become great, and he's shown the ability, but he hasn't shown he can stay healthy. Tashard Choice rarely gets to touch the ball. Not one of these three has ever rushed for 1000 yards...tell me again how they're such a "luxury"?

Offensive Line - please. The only reason those guys have looked as good as they have the last few years is Romo. He's bought himself time back there more times than I care to admit. It's a miracle he hasn't taken more killshots than he has already.

This is a prime example of what I mean when I say you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. If the criteria has to apply to one QB, it should apply to all of the others that are in similar situations.

Oh, yeah, Romo's beaten Rodgers twice. But I'm sure that was more his supporting cast's doing. How convenient.

[Aso]

I don't think you can say with absolute conviction that either Dallas or Green Bay has a better supporting cast for their QB's than the other.

[dave]

\
Oh, yeah, Romo's beaten Rodgers twice. But I'm sure that was more his supporting cast's doing. How convenient.

OK, I may not be Gil Brandt, but if you put a poll to 32 NFL coaches and asked them who to choose between Rodgers and Romo, I think we know who wins.
And the stupid part is, I'm not knocking Romo. I think he's a good guy and a top-10 QB in the NFL. I put him ahead of McNabb.
I have nothing but respect for Romo, but if you put 32 NFL coaches or 32 NFL GM's on a hotseat and told them to pick between the two, Rodgers would win.

[Rayman]

I don't think you can say with absolute conviction that either Dallas or Green Bay has a better supporting cast for their QB's than the other.

I don't even care.

Be consistent in your arguments is all I'm saying.

[Rayman]

OK, I may not be Gil Brandt, but if you put a poll to 32 NFL coaches and asked them who to choose between Rodgers and Romo, I think we know who wins.
And the stupid part is, I'm not knocking Romo. I think he's a good guy and a top-10 QB in the NFL. I put him ahead of McNabb.
I have nothing but respect for Romo, but if you put 32 NFL coaches or 32 NFL GM's on a hotseat and told them to pick between the two, Rodgers would win.

I don't think you do know. Nor do I think you're sincere when you say you're not knocking him. You put put Eli freaking Manning ahead of him, and I'd be willing to bet that's based off nothing more than what happened over the span of a month in early 2008. Then you have the nerve to say you rank Rodgers ahead of him because he "Romo has a better supporting cast". Rodgers has a career .500 record and has accomplished less than Romo, yet the consensus is he's better. I don't understand it. I'm 100% convinced if Romo played for the Packers, or any other team for that matter, that wouldn't be the case.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Dave- If I help you paint your Living room..do you you promise to stop making lists ?

Its a bitch ranking an entire league of positions kudos for trying.. most I dont argue with. But the top5 are just odd spots. If you cant get those right what hope do you have of me trusting 24-30 =-).


Im eager to see Kolb-McNabb by mid season.

The eagles front staff sure doesnt have McNabb in the top 10. You dont let a top 10 go to a division rival.

Fans or Eagles front office..whos smarter ?
We'll see by mid season.

[Primetime]

Would just like to say....Jermichael Finley this year will be >>>> Jason Witten.

I'd take Jennings, Driver, and Jones over Austin, Williams, and Bryant any day of the week.
I'd still take Witten over Finley at this point, but I'm a huge Finley homer and I truly believe he'll blow all other TE's out of the water this season.

[Fox1994]

You definitely get kudos for having the balls to make a list. As such, you have to be open to criticism. I mostly agree with the list, but all the spots are so difficult to manage. The top five is so highly debatable and everything after 15 is basically a clusterfuck.

In any case, you have to be accepting of people disagreeing and having their own arguments. Don't get offended or anything.

I don't think Sanchez should be ahead of as many people as he is... My top ten:

1 - Peyton... In a league with rules to help the offense, and littered with some amazing talent at the QB position, he still seems to stand heads and shoulders above the rest. Still, the interception returned for a TD in the Super Bowl is not helping his case to stay atop the pile.

2 - Drew Brees... He's one of the league's most accurate passers and he just won the Super Bowl. So fuck it, he's here. You don't have to like it, it's my damned list.

3 - Tom Brady... I feel like he's going to drop off, and I don't foresee another Super Bowl in his future. That said, he's been one of the best of his generation, and possibly of all time.

4 - Phillip Rivers. I knew I was forgetting somebody. So I had to move him into the slot and move Rodgers down. I don't personally like Phyllis, but I feel like he elevates the play of those around him nearly as much as the three guys above him. He's a really good player, as much as it pains me to say that. Vincent Jackson - despite what he may think - will not be the same without him.

5 - Aaron Rodgers... Because I refuse to rank Favre ahead of him. I'm just a hater that way. He's immensely talented, puts up stats, seems to have intangibles... He's one of the most mobile pocket passers in the league, and it's a foregone conclusion in my mind that he's going to win a championship before all is said and done.

6 - Tony Romo. Again, Favre hate. I think he's actually underrated. He gets a lot of hate for seemingly no reason. Yes, the fucked up hold was a big deal... It was also four years ago. He and Aaron Rodgers seem to be, to some extent, the next Peyton-Brady rivalry. If those are the best at "tier 1", these two are the best at "tier 2".

7 - Brett Favre. I know many of you are hoping I'm wrong, but whatever. He's hurt, he's old, he should've stopped playing a while ago. He's perennially inconsistent and I don't think there's any good reason for him to keep playing. It's possible that "#4" should've been ranked at number four... But I'm a hater, so he's here, instead. Last year was possibly his greatest of all time (remember that he once played in a league that didn't have all these rules to make QBs look good). He's one of the top quarterbacks of all time, BUT HE'S INCONSISTENT. And that's why he's not higher. He threw 22 interceptions in 2008, one of the two times he's led the league in interceptions in the last five years. This sandwiched between his great 2007 and 2009 seasons makes this year's results debatable right now. The games have yet to be played... BUT, he does elevate the play of those around him, though he has played with some good and great guys.

8 - Ben Roethlisberger. Rapelisberger is a good player. I can't bring myself to rank him higher (again, hater-ism) or lower (because I don't wan to hear too much bitchiness). Personally, I would, honestly, taken any of the guys I have ranked above him before him for one game, all the marbles.

9 - Donovan McNabb. I think he's a certifiable great. He probably hasn't done enough to get into the Hall of Fame when it's all said and done, but I still like him. Plus, I'd be remiss to not try and squeeze a black guy on here. There, I said it. Racist homerism.

10 - Matt Schaub. He lead the league in passing last year. I don't think of him as an amazing player, but he did something amazing in that. And it's much discussed that he has an inconsistent running game and a shitty/average offensive line. Maybe he'd be even better if those positions were upgraded. Maybe top five. As it stands, though, he's number ten because he's never led a team past 8-8 (yes, yes, I know... it's a team effort.) and because I wanted to figure out a way to leave Elisha off.

[nflman2033]

NEVER FORGET

out of curiosity, not really taking sides in the debate, but I would like to know what that play had to do with how good of a QB Romo is.

[Hasselbeck]

Let's say Drew Brees never wins another playoff game. Would dave's ranking look so bad in hindsight?

Lets say Big Ben rapes another 20 year old in a bathroom stall. Is he still better than Brees and all the other guys? That's a big "what if".. and that's all you're basically saying right here. The Top 32 list is, presumably based off of present-day achievements and accolades, of which.. right now.. Drew Brees is hands down a better all around quarterback than Roethlisberger. It greatly helps his resume that Brees happened to win a Super Bowl, in doing so.. beating 3 surefire HOF quarterbacks along the way.. and not just beating them, but outplaying EACH of them.

Everyone who wins a SB is always massively overated the next year. If Favre runs out of bounds for a 4 yard gain, and the Vikings go on to beat Indy, you'd have people putting Favre #1 and Brees around #10, and no one would blink. Brees had trouble performing in the clutch his entire career before last year.

If a litiny of flags weren't thrown against the Seahawks and Jerramy Stevens acquired a pair of hands.. Matt Hasselbeck would have a Super Bowl ring too. If Asante Samuel secures an interception that hits him square in the hands, the Patriots go 19-0. There are a lot of what-if's .. none of that matters because they didn't happen. They are what they are. The Saints beat the Vikings that day and outplayed the Colts in the Super Bowl two weeks later. A major reason for that was the play of Drew Brees. And no.. no one would place Brees around the neighborhood of Matt Schaub and Vince Young. Irregardless of Brees winning the championship last season, he's in the upper echelon of QB's and it's really not all that arguable right now.

The "clutch" thing.. well Peyton Manning had that same bugaboo early on in his career, now he's considered one of the all-time greats.. including by yourself when you deemed him to be the greatest QB ever.

Every bounce and break went the Saints way. I think #4 is fair. Guy had a nothing resume for 8 years. He's no lock to repeat anything he did last year.

Of course every bounce and break went the Saints way, that's what happens to championship teams. You need luck to get through a 16 game season + 3 postseason games. But Drew Brees and the Saints made a lot of their own luck too.

A "nothing" resume is also a major stretch. I suppose in terms of a postseason record, yeah he wasn't exactly Joe Montana.. but this wasn't the first year Brees put forth a great season. He's been doing it for much of his career so far.

Rankings like individual records are all fluid and change week-to-week, year-to-year.. who knows, Brees could suck it up this year and Roethlisberger could lead Pittsburgh back into a Super Bowl? But as of now.. September 5th, 2010.. Drew Brees is better than Ben Roethlisberger.

[mcstl25]

While I don't think Ben The Raper is as good as the upper tier guys, I disagree with the last statement. Watch Dennis Dixon or Byron Leftwich "run" the Steelers offense, and tell me The Raper isnt as important as the others. He has a knack for making something out of nothing, like few others do in the league. The Steelers, despite the stereotype, have largely been a passing team during the Raper era.

I think we can all agree that Dennis Dixon, who will be running the Steelers offense, is a well below average NFL QB. So you're right, I expect the Steelers offense to look like crap. However, if the Steelers had a decent backup their offense wouldn't suffer nearly as much as if that same average QB replaced Brees or Manning.

[KNUBB]

out of curiosity, not really taking sides in the debate, but I would like to know what that play had to do with how good of a QB Romo is.

Someone was making excuses that it was not solely Romo's fault in any of the Cowboys playoff losses or something like that.

[FirstTimer]

I'd take Rodgers over Romo in a millisecond.

[Anthony]

You get groaned for putting Romo behind Elisha. I don't care what your reasoning is.

Uncalled for.

[Rayman]

Uncalled for.

How so?

Elisha is his given name.