Dave sees Bill Simmons' top-32 QBs and raises him with his top-32 QBs (NFL)

[BigBucs]

You simply dont see any other QB do what he does. We may not know how much he is actually doing but Im fairly certain its far more than any other QB in the game. Watching him work pre snap is a thing of beauty. And more often than not he gashes a defense after 39 seconds of pre snap adjustments.

[mcstl25]

Agreed, Tailback. Same point I was trying to make like 10 pages ago. Brees is criticized for only winning one superbowl, but that same point for whatever reason seems to go ignored with Manning. Both are great QBs, and Manning IMO is the better QB, but I don't get the one superbowl argument.

Anyway... just for fun.

My top 10 active QB's with best career

1) Tom Brady
2) Payton Manning
3) Brett Favre
4) Drew Brees
5) Ben Roethlisberger
6) Donovan McNabb
7) Eli Manning
8) Matt Hasselbeck
9) Aaron Rodgers
10) Phillip Rivers

My top 10 QB's looking forward into 2010 (i.e., which QBs will have the best 2010 season)

1) Drew Brees
2) Aaron Rodgers
3) Payton Manning
4) Tom Brady
5) Matt Schaub
6) Phillip Rivers
7) Brett Favre
8) Jay Cutler
9) Tony Romo
10) Joe Flacco

[Warner2BruceTD]

A couple of years ago, when the Colts had that atrocious run D, Manning would intentionally stall drives to keep the defense off the field.

He has the best field awareness i've ever seen. He literally never gets sacked. He doesnt fumble. He wins 12+ games every single season, and don't think for one second it isnt a 5 win team without him. For all the talk of his bad postseason loses, he has also been punished by missed FG's & freak plays that cost him important games. He makes throws that Brady, Brees, and anyone short of Favre couldnt make in their dreams.

Put any QB you want on the Colts (except maybe Favre, who makes any team better), and they decline greatly and never make the playoffs. About a half dozen or more guys could step right onto the Saints and throw for 5k. That's the difference.

Put Manning on that loaded SD team the last decade, and he bags multiple titles with minimal effort.

[FirstTimer]

Agreed, Tailback. Same point I was trying to make like 10 pages ago. Brees is criticized for only winning one superbowl, but that same point for whatever reason seems to go ignored with Manning. Both are great QBs, and Manning IMO is the better QB, but I don't get the one superbowl argument.

I see your point and Super Bowls alone can come off as a bit of tunnel vision but what helps Manning out a lot in "Super Bowl" conversations..and I think people are more beating around the bush and talking playoff appearances and success in general...is the fact that Manning has been habitually making the playoffs his entire career. He's been to the playoffs 10 times in 12 seasons. One season was his rookie year. The guy hasn't missed the playoffs since the 2001 season. For better or for worse the guy is always around come playoff time. And frankly when you make the playoffs that much carrying your team at times you are bound to carry some teams there that shouldn't belong. Perhaps because they have a bad running game, or a bad defense, etc but Manning always has his team at least in the hunt.

Brees has made the playoffs 3 times his entire career.

Yeah Brees is a really really good QB but there's a really good reason Manning gets the praise he does. He's just that damn great/impressive.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Manning doesnt just make the playoffs every year, he wins 12+ games and has the Colts at the top of the league, year in year out. He's not sneaking in the backdoor at 9-7.

The fact he "only" has one SB win is the only possible knock anyone can have on the man. Think about that for a second. His big negative is he only won one SB.

[Aso]

The Colts are a 5 win team with Curtis Painter at QB? They'd be lucky to get 5. With Tom Brady or Drew Brees as the Colts QB they probably have the same results Peyton had.

With all this QB discussion though I read a PFT article recently titled something along the lines of: "It's not about parity, It's about QB's" I think that article was dead right.

[Aso]

Part of the 12+ wins is on the shoulders of Bill Polian. Take him out of the equation and they don't win 12+ every year for as long as they have.

[citizenerased]

Manning won a Superbowl with this :

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/15520948/

During that year he also led the greatest comeback in Championship Game history enroute to his Superbowl.

The key moments of the Saints Superbowl run are two other QB's throwing interceptions, dodgy referring decisions and a coin toss.

Part of the 12+ wins is on the shoulder of Bill Polian. Take him out of the equation and they don't win 12+ every year for as long as they have.

You think Austin Collie and Garcon are making Polian look like a genius if Manning isn't there behind centre throwing them the ball.

The Colts are a 5 win team with Curtis Painter at QB? They'd be lucky to get 5. With Tom Brady or Drew Brees as the Colts QB they probably have the same results Peyton had.

You could possibly make the arguement for Brady... but Brees? GTFO. Manning will probably throw more touchdowns in his first game this year then Brees has winning seasons with just as talented, or more talented in the case of the Chargers and recent Saints teams (3 isn't it?).

[FirstTimer]

Manning doesnt just make the playoffs every year, he wins 12+ games and has the Colts at the top of the league, year in year out. He's not sneaking in the backdoor at 9-7.

The fact he "only" has one SB win is the only possible knock anyone can have on the man. Think about that for a second. His big negative is he only won one SB.

Very true.

The last time the Colts won less than 12 games? 2002.

Manning hasn't always been perfect but WAY more often than not he's great. He's a Vanderdipshit kick away from advancing once, he's a Big Ben ankle tackle away another time.

Hell Montana was a dropped INT away from losing a SB to the Bengals. He was Dwight Clark jumping 1 inch lower away from not even getting to his first Super Bowl.

Yeah Manning threw a pick in the Super Bowl. It was a great read by the DB, a slip out of the break by Wayne, and a predictable play call and iffy throw. When it all comes down to it though in that situation out of 100 times. I'm betting on Manning 100 times to get the first down.

[Warner2BruceTD]

]With all this QB discussion though I read a PFT article recently titled something along the lines of: "It's not about parity, It's about QB's" I think that article was dead right.

It's a QB driven league? Well i'll be darned.

[FirstTimer]

The Colts are a 5 win team with Curtis Painter at QB? They'd be lucky to get 5. With Tom Brady or Drew Brees as the Colts QB they probably have the same results Peyton had.

With all this QB discussion though I read a PFT article recently titled something along the lines of: "It's not about parity, It's about QB's" I think that article was dead right.

Uhhh I don't know.

Brees has won 12 games once his entire career. Manning has been doing it every season since before we invaded Iraq.
As for Brady..maybe you have a point but he's almost always been surrounded by a better team than Peyton and even still outside of one crazy ass season in 2007 manning has always dwarfed him statistically.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Uhhh I don't know.

Brees has won 12 games once his entire career. Manning has been doing it every season since before we invaded Iraq.
As for Brady..maybe you have a point but he's almost always been surrounded by a better team than Peyton and even still outside of one crazy ass season in 2007 manning has always dwarfed him statistically.

And he played for some extremely talented teams.

People forget this, but even though the back of his football card looks pretty decent from his SD days, he was pretty much run out of town.

[nflman2033]

With the greatest RB of this decade. Under an I-formation with the 2nd best TE of this generation. Extra linebackers and 8 guys in the box is supposed to make the QBs job easier. He didnt deliver in SD. It has to be held against him.

maybe it had to do with the fact that Marty didn't trust Brees to throw the ball, and when LT ran the way he did, he didn't have to

[dave]

It's a QB driven league? Well i'll be darned.

I've always believed it was a right guard-driven league myself ... until Shawn Andrews went nuts.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

maybe it had to do with the fact that Marty didn't trust Brees to throw the ball, and when LT ran the way he did, he didn't have to

Perhaps. But I cant force him to trust the guy. I gotta go with what happened. If Marty didnt trust him who am I to question that caliber of coach who sees him practice every day.