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Originally posted by glenwillett
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It was just KOF...no biggie. -
What the fuck are you talking about? He didn't drive his head into anybody, and the WR sure as fuck wasn't on the ground. Exaggeration much? Next post your going to say guys weren't taught to skull fuck wr's that are already on the ground, and that you're a cool guy. Quit stretching bitch.So, metaphorically speaking, our physiology basically has the universe mapped out and you're thinking it needs to be taught addition & subtraction.
-Alan AragonComment
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I dont know what you watched on Sunday. Merriweathers was the only one that looked like a blatant head attempt.
All the others look like every other tackle attempt except somebody got hurt.
Cant shoulder tackle and not lower your head if a guys below your pad height. Your being ridiculous.
Keep telling yourself Im not a threat.
Best reason to have a license.
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The problem is, when you are taught form tackling technique, you jog through some BS drills where the ballcarrier stands straight up and allows you to wrap him up neatly and perfectly.
Literally all of that goes out the window once you hit live action. When a RB is ducking their shoulder into yours, you really don't have that perfect window to aim at. There's no way to ensure your helmet touches no part of his.
You don't have time, or in many cases, simply aren't able to because the ballcarrier doesn't want you to, wrap up and form tackle properly. So what do you? Do you pass up a non-form tackle, risk getting chewed out and/or benched, or do you decide to continue doing your job, which is to get the bastard to the ground however you can?
There are some blatant headshots, yes ...What Meriweather did was despicable and he should clearly be fined ... but guys like Houston and Harrison (at least on one of his hits) are merely doing their job, which is to get the guy with the ball to the ground.
Since when did a ball carrier who is running towards you become a "Defenseless Receiver"?
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Another Deadspin take on the subject. Drew is kind of the wild-man of the writing staff so he does it for shock-and-awe, but a lot of what he says is true:
If the NFL wants to get rid of concussions, they can just make tackling illegal, which they won't because that would be stupid. Instead, they did what they should have done: Throw heavier fines at a few players so that everyone would shut the fuck up and move on to the next story in the news cycle. They can talk all they want about "leading with your head" (how do you not lead with your head? It's on top of your fucking body) and defenseless receivers. Secretly, they know and we know that concussions are an accepted fact of life in the game, just as torn ACLs are. All the NFL can really do is try and make the equipment safer and occasionally raise fines to get the Peter Kings of the world to stop bitching about a supposed problem that could only be truly fixed by altering the game in such a dramatic way that it no longer resembles itself. And that'll never happen. This is why lip service is so useful from time to time.Comment
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Other than the newness of the whole thing I still don't get all of the hoopla about this. I strongly believe guys are still going to play football the way they always have. In the moment of having to make a play I just don't see guys consciously thinking about how they're going to hit the defender as to avoid a fine. If anything this rule will eliminate the head-hunting and seemingly sloppy technique we’ve seen from guys going for the big hit or trying to separate “man from ball,” which IMO is a good thing for all involved including players, coaches, fans, etc.
I understand the concept of “separating man from ball, however, that act shouldn’t be done so at the detriment of the offensive player’s health and well being. Separating man from ball shouldn’t involve guys just wildly lunging at an offensive player’s body, but instead making an actual play on the ball (at least this is how I've been taught). There is a major difference here.Comment
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Alot of the techniques that involve making a play on the ball will get you flagged. If your off by even half a second the play is an automatic completion because a flag will ensure it. Id rather go for a big hit and jar it loose. Even if you catch it youll think twice about leaping near me.Best reason to have a license.
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That's kind of one of the basic tenets of well-coached defense. Intimidation has always been a part of football. Should it supersede actually knowing how to tackle? No, of course not, but given their druthers, all Defensive Coordinators would prefer their defenders be mean SOB's.
You can teach technique, you can't teach aggression. Coaches will always love a player who "lays the wood".Comment
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Its not "rather" its because your forced to.
Dont know how to make it any clearer. Youre not giving defenders the option. Its either allow the plays to happen or try to stop it with hard hits and physical intimidation. Theres very little in between anymore.
Lastly if you dont think the element of fear and physical intimidation play a major part in football regardless of skill set I dont know what to tell you.
Its there, always been there ,and should remain there.Best reason to have a license.
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Football is pure aggression by it's nature; however, that aggression still has to be controlled a bit. This rule isn’t for the guy that is trying to make a play on the ball, but rather the guy who is trying to use scare tactics and slinging his body around in hopes of intimidating someone. Football is a contact sport, so naturally there are going to be big hits; however, the key word here is “naturally” and not guys willingly going around looking for them.
There have been several defensive players who have made careers out of intimidating people through their skill set and I’m sure the both of you guys could create a list. Traditionally the guys who use pure aggression and force are either less talented, have sloppy technique or just guys who have been just pure lazy to learn proper technique.Comment
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Roy Williams (safety) comes to mind, grabbing players by the neck because he doesn't know how to tackle.
DeAngelo Hall is another, though nobody would call what he does intimidating, just infuriating. Cowardly bastard ducks his head and dives at the knees of any ballcarrier put in front of him.Comment
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I stand by what I said earlier in this thread and what W2TB agreed with me on....launching yourself like a missile is not how football is supposed to be played nor is it taught......legendary coach Fred Stengel agrees:
Fred Stengel says it's not so. The legendary coach, who retired at national power Bergen Catholic after 41 years on the high school sidelines, disputes the notion that kids have been taught to tackle by leading with their helmets.
"They've been taught to make contact with their chests, not their helmets," said Stengel, who coached seven future NFL players, most recently Houston linebacker Brian Cushing. "Do they aim? Yes, I'm sure that's probably accurate but in terms of the actual contact, no high school coach that I know of has ever proposed that you make contact with your helmet as your primary source."
The issue has been spotlighted by the tragic injury to Rutgers linebacker Eric LeGrand, followed by a spate of incidents in the NFL Sunday, which has the league cracking down on helmet-to-helmet hits.
Stengel, a good friend of Colonia High School's Ben LaSala, who coached LeGrand, is personally familiar with the risks involved in playing the game.
"The first play of my high school career in 1972 against Scotch Plains . . . I was an assistant at Union at the time . . . a kid came down on the kickoff and broke his neck and he's been a quadriplegic ever since," Stengel said. "You want to talk about a coach in a nightmare, having witnessed that or having had that happen to one of their players. I coached for 41 years and that's something I always lived in fear of."
That impression turned Stengel into a stickler for proper tackling technique.
"Is it impossible to take your head completely out of it? Of course it is," Stengel said. "But the way it's taught is chest on chest and wrap your arms up under his armpits. What you're specifically doing is trying to put your nose right on his breastplate and then slide your head to one side or the other. No one said, ‘aim with your head make contact with your head.' That's insane."
It's "very evident" to Stengel that the "real problem" is with players who launch themselves like flying missiles.
"That's just plain stupid," he said. "You see that on kickoffs all the time. The game is so competitive and on special teams, those guys are vulnerable and they're running from such distances at such velocity, that's where the primary shots like that are going to occur. I don't understand why anybody in their right mind would do that and don't tell me there's ever been a coach who's taught it."
The solution, Stengel says, is to actually work on tackling technique in the pros as much as they do in high school.
"I just think the tackling in the NFL is so pathetic," he said. "They spend so little time on tackling and the reason is they're so scared to death in practice of getting anybody hurt. They don't work on technique and it's a shame.
"It's because these guys are an investment," he said. "They don't want to get them nicked up and these assistant coaches are scared to death to keep their jobs. If something happens where a guy gets hurt in a drill, who they looking at? Are they looking at the player? They're looking at the coach."
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Yeah, this idea that these poor players have been taught to play the game this way forever is a crock of shit.
If that was the case, we would see these type of violent hits far more frequently. Plenty of all pro's play their entire careers and never get flagged or fined for this stuff. If certain guys want to play that way and launch themselves helmet first, then they have to deal with the consequence of getting flagged/suspended for the borderline stuff.
We will definately see some shitty unfair calls, and of course we will still see injuries, but the league has to do this.Comment
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