Least and Most Burned Cornerbacks

[Senser81]

Here is the 09 game of Steelers vs Packers from more of an aerial angle showing each play twice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBpNJbgbfAA

All of the parts are in there


The first few plays do look like cover 1

This is great. Seems like Clark is playing cover 1, while one of the CBs is isolated against one of the WRs for a large part of the field. I think it was Shayn that pooh-poohed my notion that Ryan Clark is one of the most irreplaceable guys on the Steelers D, because he has a ton of responsibility.

I'm going to go through the whole tape tomorrow and post my comments.

[Aso]

This is great. Seems like Clark is playing cover 1, while one of the CBs is isolated against one of the WRs for a large part of the field. I think it was Shayn that pooh-poohed my notion that Ryan Clark is one of the most irreplaceable guys on the Steelers D, because he has a ton of responsibility.

I'm going to go through the whole tape tomorrow and post my comments.

I'll be looking forward to your comments.

[Senser81]

<- This means it's 50/50 between the two. You're just not reading it correctly. (respectively is the key adjective.)

I don't know whats more retarded...your point or how you said it. Your point is the Steelers play either cover 2 or zone blitz 100% of the time, which is obviously retarded and was disproven on the very first play of Aso's Steeler-Packer video. To use the term "respectively" is also retarded when you could just say "the Steelers play cover 2 or zone blitz 100% of the time.

Your understanding of cover 2 is very limited obviously. It seems that you think safeties are the only players who can play deep 1/2 or 'cover 2' however you want to say it.

No, I understand the cover 2. I just don't think the Steelers play it 50% of the time. And if a CB has deep zone responsibility in a Cover 2, then that is a big responsibility.

When Troy "plays robber" a cornerback almost always drops into the deep 1/2 zone, unless it's Timmons.

What on earth are you talking about? Unless its Timmons? Did you use the "respectively" adjective again?

And you're talking about a linebacker corpse that was pretty damn good in pass coverage. Woodley- 5 PDs, 2 INTs, Harrison- 5 PDs 2 INTs, Farrior 5 PDs, and Timmons- 9 PDs 2 INTs. The help he's getting is there, he just sucks in pass coverage, and I don't know where you're getting the idea that he's ever isolated. He's rarely if ever isolated. He's always got help over the top, or by sharing an overlapped zone with another player.

His help is coming from the furthest away places (DE, ILB, FS on far side of field). Its schematic. LOL at listing INTs as proof that McFadden gets help...but this is coming from the guy who is just learning that DeAngelo Hall might be a tad bit overrated.

[Woy]

15 INTERCEPTIONS!

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Here is the 09 game of Steelers vs Packers from more of an aerial angle showing each play twice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBpNJbgbfAA

All of the parts are in there


The first few plays do look like cover 1

Two quick thoughts before I go through this tape.

1: it's a snapshot of one game. The game plan vs Rodgers might have been cover 1 man the whole game, I don't know, haven't looked through it. I'll bet still that there are zone blitzes most of the time and McFadden will rarely be isolated without zone help around him.

2: It doesn't change the fact that Dick LeBeau himself said, "For the last three years, we've been close to a 50-percent 'Cover 2' team." in this article. <-link. The article is from '07, but the steelers defense hasn't changed much over the last 4 years. It's still the same concepts with some tweaks.

 

I wish somebody would change the color of URL's so we can tell if there is a link present or not.

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

I don't know whats more retarded...your point or how you said it. Your point is the Steelers play either cover 2 or zone blitz 100% of the time, which is obviously retarded and was disproven on the very first play of Aso's Steeler-Packer video. To use the term "respectively" is also retarded when you could just say "the Steelers play cover 2 or zone blitz 100% of the time.

A point to which I corrected myself two posts later, to more of a 50/40%.

BTW, in those first two plays, those were zone blitzing schemes. Watch them again. LB's blitz, More LB's drop into zone coverage, McFadden was not isolated without help coming from the zones around him and/or safety help over top. Don't get yourself confused by watching one player. zone blitz = I'm still correct sir.

No, I understand the cover 2. I just don't think the Steelers play it 50% of the time. And if a CB has deep zone responsibility in a Cover 2, then that is a big responsibility.

Dick LeBaeu Himself said they do and he runs the defense. Check my previous post on the article above.

What on earth are you talking about? Unless its Timmons? Did you use the "respectively" adjective again?

Meant to say Taylor. When Troy plays "robber" one of the other corners typically takes deep responsibility on cover 2 schemes. Not on zone blitz packages mind you, which are not the same as cover 2 schemes.

His help is coming from the furthest away places (DE, ILB, FS on far side of field). Its schematic. LOL at listing INTs as proof that McFadden gets help...but this is coming from the guy who is just learning that DeAngelo Hall might be a tad bit overrated.

Back up a second jerky, everybody knew how overrated Hall was when the Falcons cut ties with him, and even worse when the Raiders did the same thing. I just didn't realize he was in the bottom tier of CB play. I didn't realize he was shit-stick bad as a DB. Overrated, yes I know that much. Keep grasping straws.

LOL at you calling out my football knowledge and you don't recognize a zone blitz when you see it. lulz

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Here is the 09 game of Steelers vs Packers from more of an aerial angle showing each play twice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBpNJbgbfAA

All of the parts are in there


The first few plays do look like cover 1

I didn't congratulate you on the find BTW. my bad. Great video. It's really cool to watch game film this way. The same play twice, from two different angles. I don't care what the video proves, it was a good find. +1

[Aso]

I didn't congratulate you on the find BTW. my bad. Great video. It's really cool to watch game film this way. The same play twice, from two different angles. I don't care what the video proves, it was a good find. +1

Yeah well, ya know, I try.:shakehands:

I do think you have a case though. But I think it's more short help which is help indeed and does make his job easier.

[inthecards21]

Regardless of how Steelers play their zones, if you get burned 66% of the time, you suck ass

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Yeah well, ya know, I try.:shakehands:

I do think you have a case though. But I think it's more short help which is help indeed and does make his job easier.

+1

That's the point of the scheme I think. You get it. I don't think I have to go into all the ways to work a zone blitz scheme, but the important part is that you have a defender over the top that try's not to get beat, with zone help under/around him...in effect surrounding the receiver with 2-3 defenders. Not double/triple covering him, just 2-3 defenders in zone, within striking distance from the target if the ball is thrown there.

You get it though.

[Senser81]

2: It doesn't change the fact that Dick LeBeau himself said, "For the last three years, we've been close to a 50-percent 'Cover 2' team." in this article. <-link. The article is from '07, but the steelers defense hasn't changed much over the last 4 years. It's still the same concepts with some tweaks.

 

I wish somebody would change the color of URL's so we can tell if there is a link present or not.

"If we're going to go to 'Cover 2,' we'll only have four rushers. If we're going to a zone-pressure (zone-blitz), we'll have five or more. But we can still play some '2' coverage concepts behind a five-man rush."

This is the pertinent part. You don't understand the Cover 2.

A pure Cover 2 has the CBs rolled up and the safeties playing over the top, so the CB can play an aggressive short zone and he always has deep help. Ronde Barber of Tampa has made a career out of being physical with WRs for a 10 yard area, playing the run well, etc. because he always has help deep. The Steelers DO NOT do this 50% of the time. The '2' coverage concept just means they have two guys deep. The Steelers will have an ILB or a DE or a SS play the short coverage, then expect the CB on that side to drop back and play the deep half. Meaning that the CB has no help, and much of the time will have a weak-in-coverage ILB or DE playing in front of him.

[Senser81]

Back up a second jerky, everybody knew how overrated Hall was when the Falcons cut ties with him, and even worse when the Raiders did the same thing. I just didn't realize he was in the bottom tier of CB play. I didn't realize he was shit-stick bad as a DB. Overrated, yes I know that much. Keep grasping straws.

This is just like when you would go off on a tangent complaining about Troy Polamalu getting dissed when we were discussing Matthews v. Harrison.

No response to my statement "His help is coming from the furthest away places (DE, ILB, FS on far side of field)"? Its unbelieveable. And you had just said "McFadden was not isolated without help coming from the zones around him and/or safety help over top", as if this somehow disproves what I am saying...which it obviously doesn't. As I've said numerous times now, the Steeler CB's have a lot of coverage responsibility, even in their zone schemes.

Honestly, is this your first year of watching the Steelers? When I say McFadden gets isolated in coverage, do I have to show some film of the 10 other Steeler players running off the field at the snap of the ball?

[Senser81]

I'll be looking forward to your comments.

I got through the first 15 plays. Here is the coverage breakdown, with specific attention being paid to Ike Taylor:

1) Cover 1, Taylor (#24) isolated on far side of field, Woodley playing flat zone in front
2) Cover 1, #24 isolated on near side of field w/no help
3) Cover 1, #24 blitzes on near side of field
4) Cover 1, #24 has short responsibility on near side but no WRs, CB gets isolated deep
5) Delay
6) Cover 1, #24 isolated on near side of field w/no help
7) Cover 1 w/Carter playing deep and Clark moving up, #24 has man coverage on Finley
8) First 2-deep coverage I’ve seen all game, running play
9) Run
10) 2-deep (NOT Cover 2), and Timmons gets stuck in Man coverage underneath on Jennings, TD
11) First true Cover 2 play of the game, running play
12) Cover 1, running play
13) Cover 1 robber, #24 isolated on near side of field
14) Cover 1, #24 isolated on near side of field
15) Cover 2, #24 has short zone on near side of field


It basically shows what people have seen from the Steelers for years. Ryan Clark was the only person with deep help on 9 of the 15 plays. The Steelers were usually blitzing LBs and/or DBs a vast majority of the time. Only 2 of the 15 plays were actually true "Cover 2" plays, with the safeties playing deep and the CBs and LBs playing short zones in front of them. Only 2 other plays actually had 2-deep coverage, with Clark and Carter deep and man underneath. This actually led to the only successful Packers play (and a TD), because Timmons got stuck on Greg Jennings. Taylor was isolated most of the time in man coverage on a WR with only Clark as his deep help.

Not really surprising to me, but its nice to have your "opinion" validated by the game film.

[Saluki]

That all being said. Getting beat on nearly 7 out of every 10 plays looks pretty bad on him. Help or no help.

[Senser81]

That all being said. Getting beat on nearly 7 out of every 10 plays looks pretty bad on him. Help or no help.

I didn't see McFadden give up a completion in those first 15 plays, so the game was obviously from 2009.