When is oversigning going to be fully addressed like it needs to be?

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Sportsbuck
    Buckeye For Life
    • Dec 2008
    • 3045

    When is oversigning going to be fully addressed like it needs to be?

    There are a lot of things wrong with the world of college football today, from lying coaches, to boosters paying recruits/players, fans getting personal on twitter and facebook with players and recruits, players receiving death threats and alike for poor play, coaches unethically recruiting, etc., etc., but one of the things that seemingly gets shoved out of the spotlight and is not highly reported is Oversigning.

    Essentially, oversigning is when a program signs more recruits than they have available spots for. As the spring and summer go on, players in the program are either forced out, or incoming recruits are forced to gray-shirt or go the JUCO/prep school route at the last second.

    Now, this allows programs that oversign to essentially have a tryout process, and allows them to cut the dead weight and bring in new recruits that can have an impact, while the older guys who haven't impressed are simply forced out. Not only does this give schools that oversign an advantage on the field, but more importantly it allows them to basically disregard any player that fails to live up to his promise as a contributor without a second thought and bring in another highly touted recruit to take his place, thus yet another situation where the student athlete gets screwed by the school.

    This isn't a problem that's specific to the SEC, but it's definitely one that's highly prevalent there. According to last year's oversigning cup, the teams most guilty of the practice were Ole Miss (+12), Alabama (+11), LSU (+10), Arkansas (+10), and then ACC school Clemson (+7), followed by South Carolina (+6).

    A couple of years ago they passed a rule in the SEC mandating the only 28 LOI's could be accepted per year, and this was later changed to 25 per year, but even that's not adequate enough to put a stop to it. NCAA legislation currently says the only limits are 85 players on scholarship per year, and 25 per new per year, at the start of fall camp. You can get around the 25 per year with early enrollees (that backcount to the previous class), and the 85 is pretty easily to manipulate around if you've paid any attention to what Nick Saban does in the 6 months between NLOID and the start of fall camp.

    Here's a couple of excerpts from Oversigning.com (aka The March to 85):


    Here is what appears to be the final shake down on Alabama's post NSD attrition this year. Much like last year, Alabama is one of the few teams in the country to lose double-digit players post NSD. Quick, name another school that has lost 21 scholarships players between NSD and August over the last 2 years. That's an entire recruiting class. And 6 of those 21 were medical hardships. Here is the attrition for Alabama between National Signing Day and the August deadline to get to 85 players for the last two years. Any way you slice it that is a lot of attrition. For comparison's sake, Penn State has had 2 players leave their program over the last two years during this period of time.

    Elliott Porter woke up Tuesday morning planning on taking care of a few personal things and preparing for the start of pre-season camp in Baton Rouge, La., today. But a summons to Les Miles' office changed all of that.

    "I got called to coach Miles' office. I had no idea it was coming," Porter said of his being asked by LSU to 'grayshirt' this season and re-enroll next year. "He just told me that they didn't have room for me. I moved out of my dorm today and I am now back home trying to figure everything out. It's been a rough 24 hours."
    Possible solutions?

    - Make scholarships 4 year deals, not 1 year renewable ones.

    - Hard cap of 85/25 year round, NCAA wide.

    - Don't allow early enrollees to backcount with the previous class.

    Thoughts?
  • Warner2BruceTD
    2011 Poster Of The Year
    • Mar 2009
    • 26142

    #2
    Possible solutions?

    - Make scholarships 4 year deals, not 1 year renewable ones.

    - Hard cap of 85/25 year round, NCAA wide.

    - Don't allow early enrollees to backcount with the previous class.


    Do all of this.

    Fuck these sleazeball coaches. Stop this shit and not a single fan outside the .01% of recruiting nerds would notice the difference.

    Comment

    • Irish
      do you see my jesus chain
      • Oct 2008
      • 4416

      #3
      When is oversigning going to be fully addressed like it needs to be?
      When the SEC stops controlling CFB.

      Comment

      • NAHSTE
        Probably owns the site
        • Feb 2009
        • 22233

        #4
        I am against oversigning, but it has been addressed by the main culprit, the SEC. First with the "Houston Nutt Rule" which capped it at 28 (which admittedly was a joke of a number) and now with the hard cap at 25. We will see how heavily it is enforced when Alabama tries to pull some sneaky shit to get all 26 of their guys (plus whoever else they add) in this class.

        You can't count back count scholarships anymore, but I'm not sure how strictly greyshirting will be enforced, if at all. Saban will stash some kids in JUCO and then there will be a mysterious epidemic of career ending degenerate spinal conditions cropping up in Tuscaloosa this spring/summer.

        But the main problem is that 25x4 does not equal 85. That's on the NCAA.

        edit- Elliot Porter is a bad example because he's currently playing for LSU and will be under scholarship next year ... He went to Kentucky for a semester, hated it and came back with a scholly waiting. Getting asked to gray shirt last minute sucks but it's not the same as having a scholly pulled on you. Miles asked him to wait a semester ... He ended up doing that anyway. That was just an OTL hack job since they needed someone else to pair with their disgruntled Chris Garrett story.

        Comment

        • Sportsbuck
          Buckeye For Life
          • Dec 2008
          • 3045

          #5
          Originally posted by NAHSTE
          edit- Elliot Porter is a bad example because he's currently playing for LSU and will be under scholarship next year ... He went to Kentucky for a semester, hated it and came back with a scholly waiting. Getting asked to gray shirt last minute sucks but it's not the same as having a scholly pulled on you. Miles asked him to wait a semester ... He ended up doing that anyway. That was just an OTL hack job since they needed someone else to pair with their disgruntled Chris Garrett story.
          They told him when he was moved into his dorm in August that they didn't have a spot for him...

          You shouldn't be waiting around until the start of fall camp to decide if you have enough room for a kid that signed a LOI to be on scholarship.

          Comment

          • Sportsbuck
            Buckeye For Life
            • Dec 2008
            • 3045

            #6
            This is a seperate issue, but I would also like to see something done about the idea of 'committable and 'non-commitable' scholarship offers.

            One of the things a lot of schools will do to get in on recruits is offer them a scholarship. Now, the way the recruiting game works, is that not all of these offers are, 'commitable' (I.E. meaning they will accept your commitment without question). A lot of lower-tier kids get non-commitable offers to keep the school in the game, and while they may want to commit to that school, they will be held off by that coaching staff in order to pursue more highly rated prospects on the board.

            A clear example of this can be found with Ohio State's current recruits. We've been holding off WR/DB Joel Caleb and OL Alex Kozan for months now while we wait for guys that are higher regarded (Jordan Diamond, Kyle Dodson, etc.), [note: this is under Urban's staff, not Tressel's].

            Formalizing the recruitment process in regards to offers would be a big step forward IMO.

            Comment

            • NAHSTE
              Probably owns the site
              • Feb 2009
              • 22233

              #7
              Originally posted by Sportsbuck
              They told him when he was moved into his dorm in August that they didn't have a spot for him...

              You shouldn't be waiting around until the start of fall camp to decide if you have enough room for a kid that signed a LOI to be on scholarship.
              Absolutely agree. That was mishandled, but we didn't plan on leaving the kid out in the cold either. He was going to have to pay tuition out of pocket (or take TOPS, the state funded academic scholarship that only requires a 2.5 GPA (lol)) for a semester and then pick up a scholly in January. Instead he opted to withdraw from LSU and go to Kentucky where they had an open spot right away. It's not like LSU threw all his shit on the sidewalk, lol.

              Kentucky asked him to move positions and he was homesick. He came back a few months later and all was well that ended well. There are probably worse examples you could find from LSU or Alabama (or Ole Miss, or Arkansas, or Tennessee, or whoever else).

              We're on the same page though, over signing is unethical and unfair to the kids. Hopefully the hard cap has some actual teeth.

              This is a seperate issue, but I would also like to see something done about the idea of 'committable and 'non-commitable' scholarship offers.

              One of the things a lot of schools will do to get in on recruits is offer them a scholarship. Now, the way the recruiting game works, is that not all of these offers are, 'commitable' (I.E. meaning they will accept your commitment without question). A lot of lower-tier kids get non-commitable offers to keep the school in the game, and while they may want to commit to that school, they will be held off by that coaching staff in order to pursue more highly rated prospects on the board.

              A clear example of this can be found with Ohio State's current recruits. We've been holding off WR/DB Joel Caleb and OL Alex Kozan for months now while we wait for guys that are higher regarded (Jordan Diamond, Kyle Dodson, etc.), [note: this is under Urban's staff, not Tressel's].



              Formalizing the recruitment process in regards to offers would be a big step forward IMO.
              Yeah this shit is bizarre and should stop, but unfortunately it's just good business practices to oversell. Ever had a hotel room or plane ticket disappear on you? It's because airlines and hotels over book because they are expecting a few cancellations. The worst thing to them is an empty room. They would rather have one too few spots than one too many.

              Same thing with the cutthroat world of college football. If you are a recruiting coordinator for a certain region or position, and you offer a spot to a kid, and then at the last minute he changes his mind or doesn't qualify academically, and you have no plan B ... well looks like you won't be signing a tight end this year, hope your head coach goes easy on you.

              I wish you could regulate offers, but it's such a wide open thing. These offers get thrown around whenever. At camps, over the phone, via text, an official visit, whenever. Even if you make it so you can only offer on official visits, and all offers are documented and limited, who is to say you couldn't just "strongly imply" an offer to a kid off the record? It's just so hard to enforce.

              Comment

              • Sportsbuck
                Buckeye For Life
                • Dec 2008
                • 3045

                #8
                Originally posted by NAHSTE
                Yeah this shit is bizarre and should stop, but unfortunately it's just good business practices to oversell. Ever had a hotel room or plane ticket disappear on you? It's because airlines and hotels over book because they are expecting a few cancellations. The worst thing to them is an empty room. They would rather have one too few spots than one too many.

                Same thing with the cutthroat world of college football. If you are a recruiting coordinator for a certain region or position. and you offer a spot to a kid, and then at the last minute he changes his mind or doesn't qualify academically, and you have no plan B ... well looks like you won't be signing a tight end this year, hope your head coach goes easy on you.

                I wish you could regulate offers, but it's such a wide open thing. These offers get thrown around whenever. At camps, over the phone, via text, an official visit, whenever. Even if you make it so you can only offer on official visits, and all offers are documented and limited, who is to say you couldn't just "strongly imply" an offer to a kid off the record? It's just so hard to enforce.
                I agree, I just wish there was a way to stop it. So many kids get jerked around and it's flat out unfair to them.

                And coaches like Nick Saban, Urban Meyer (while he never oversigned, we all know his ethical past with recruiting), Les Miles, Houston Nutt, Bobby Petrino etc. they will find a way around almost any rule that is imposed. Example: when texting got banned, Saban started skyping recruits.

                Comment

                • NAHSTE
                  Probably owns the site
                  • Feb 2009
                  • 22233

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Sportsbuck
                  Example: when texting got banned, Saban started skyping recruits.
                  LOL that's great. Just the idea of Saban calling some 18 year old boy to ask "are you ready to skype?" makes me giggle.

                  Comment

                  • Sportsbuck
                    Buckeye For Life
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 3045

                    #10
                    4* OL Patrick Miller has been committed to LSU since September. Went to enroll early as planned this week, but was told there was no room for him there and apparently they begged him to pay his own way in the spring, but he and his family refused. They called Jeff Grimes and now today he's enrolling early at Auburn.

                    Comment

                    • NAHSTE
                      Probably owns the site
                      • Feb 2009
                      • 22233

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Sportsbuck
                      4* OL Patrick Miller has been committed to LSU since September. Went to enroll early as planned this week, but was told there was no room for him there and apparently they begged him to pay his own way in the spring, but he and his family refused. They called Jeff Grimes and now today he's enrolling early at Auburn.
                      Weird situation. I hadn't been up on Miller at all, but it sounds like there's not a scholarship available for him until next fall. Wonder if the Kiel commitment took his spot, or what.

                      Have no idea really, have not kept up with recruiting much so far this year.

                      Comment

                      • NAHSTE
                        Probably owns the site
                        • Feb 2009
                        • 22233

                        #12
                        Originally posted by NAHSTE
                        Weird situation. I hadn't been up on Miller at all, but it sounds like there's not a scholarship available for him until next fall. Wonder if the Kiel commitment took his spot, or what.

                        Have no idea really, have not kept up with recruiting much so far this year.
                        So according to a very respected poster at TigerForums - the reason we didn't have 7 early enroll spots like we planned is because a certain player did not graduate in December as he was expected to (and the Kiel commitment). I think he is referring to Jarrett Lee since he's been hinting at academic struggles for Lee for some time now.

                        Comment

                        • Senser81
                          VSN Poster of the Year
                          • Feb 2009
                          • 12804

                          #13
                          I don't know about you guys, but I always felt bad when I had to cut a guy in NCAA 07 to get under the 70-man roster limit. Poor guy.

                          Comment

                          • Hasselbeck
                            Jus' bout dat action boss
                            • Feb 2009
                            • 6175

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Sportsbuck
                            the teams most guilty of the practice were Ole Miss (+12), Alabama (+11), LSU (+10), Arkansas (+10), and then ACC school Clemson (+7), followed by South Carolina (+6).
                            Houston Nutt, Nick Saban, Les Miles, Bobby Petrino, Steve Spurrier...?

                            But they all seem so classy .. this is so strange.

                            Originally posted by ram29jackson
                            I already said months ago that Seattle wasn't winning any SB

                            Comment

                            • Hasselbeck
                              Jus' bout dat action boss
                              • Feb 2009
                              • 6175

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Senser81
                              I don't know about you guys, but I always felt bad when I had to cut a guy in NCAA 07 to get under the 70-man roster limit. Poor guy.
                              I would cut my kicker and take a walk-on. Of course it would cripple my field goal range to like 30 yards.. but that was ok.
                              Originally posted by ram29jackson
                              I already said months ago that Seattle wasn't winning any SB

                              Comment

                              Working...