UNC Scandal - 54 Fake Classes, 4 in 10 Football Players Enrolled in Major

[JimLeavy59]

Bent Over Boys

Thought I would get that in before someone else did....

I'm calling the FBI on you right now.

[shag773]

This may also be unpopular, but I also do not believe that Paterno willingly covered up Sandusky and knowingly allowed him to continue raping children. I believe Paterno was fine with the initial investigation that went nowhere, forced Sandusky out, and thought he was washing his hands of it. I think at the end of his life he realize he made a terrible mistake. I am not letting him off the hook, and I believe if alive he should have been investigated and potentially brought up on charges, but that is my view of how it went down.

I do not think Paterno was an evil man, condoning child rape and knowingly enabling Sandusky.

I also do not believe that the cover up benefited the program in the same way the UNC infractions have. I think that is overblown. Had this come out in 1998, Sandusky would have been in prison sooner, and PSU would have resumed business as usual.

This might be true, but it still doesn't change the end result. If Paterno didn't lie (or forget, leaning towards lied) about what he knew about 98 or his involvement after initially meeting with Schultz and Curry, it would be different. It was a terrible lapse in judgement and it absolutely should tarnish his legacy. Thats why you won't hear me defend Paterno.

[Argath]

Bent Over Boys

Thought I would get that in before someone else did....

Put a Y in there and it could be Bring Your Own Boy

[NAHSTE]

Exactly.

Repeat offenders (Penn St was not), blatant cheating and abuse of academics.

Yeah but not because they weren't committing offenses, just that they never got caught and never self-reported any infractions to the NCAA. Most schools will alert the NCAA when there is a minor infraction, and conduct their own investigations when there is a sign of trouble. Leaving Sandusky out of this, there's a mountain of evidence that suggests Paterno kept multiple other offenses and crimes from members of the program from ever reaching the ears of the NCAA, law enforcement or media.

During Paterno's 60-year regime, Penn State was an insulated bubble where players and coaches could do whatever they wanted.

Meanwhile, UNC is a "repeat offender" because they conducted their own self-investigation after a huge scandal was uncovered in 2007 and this is an extension of that. The second shoe dropping, if you will.

I get this is egregious, and UNC should be hit with the book for sure. I just don't think you should be "crediting" Penn State for running a "clean" program up until now, because we all know that's not true.

[svetz17]

Yeah but not because they weren't committing offenses, just that they never got caught and never self-reported any infractions to the NCAA. Most schools will alert the NCAA when there is a minor infraction, and conduct their own investigations when there is a sign of trouble. Leaving Sandusky out of this, there's a mountain evidence that sugges Paterno kept multiple other offenses and crimes from members of the program from ever reaching the ears of the NCAA, law enforcement or media.

Under Paterno's 60-year regime, Penn State was an insulated bubble where players and coaches could do whatever they wanted.

Meanwhile, UNC is a "repeat offender" because they conducted their own self-investigation after a huge scandal was uncovered in 2007 and this is an extension of that. The second shoe dropping, if you will.

I get this is egregious, and UNC should be hit with the book for sure. I just don't think you should be "crediting" Penn State for running a "clean" program up until now, because we all know that's not true.

Sadly its true, Psu players got away with anything. Both schools are fucks ups, complete fuck ups.

[Senser81]

I'm re-reading the articles, and aside from them both being horribly written, I'm trying to find the hard evidence that UNC was cheating.

*Numerous football/bball players majoring in AA studies...if its illegal, then why does UNC offer it as a major?
*Academic Advisors steering players to AA courses...isn't that their job, to advise students on what classes to take?
*67% of AA courses filled by players...what about the other 33%? Were those students kicked out of school?

There is one mention/implication in one of the articles that the players' classes didn't even exist...they were just given grades. Well, if thats true, then THAT should be the lead story. And if thats true, then what about the other 33% of the regular student population in those classes?

I guess I don't get the outrage over players enrolling in courses offered by the University, selecting a major offered by the University, and academic advisors doing their jobs. Maybe more will come out on this story, and we'll see that Roy Williams is a POS and Sean May received even more preferential treatment from his professors than he did from the refs in the 2005 championship. But until then, I don't know what the NCAA can do. Julius Peppers' transcript had a lot of African American Studies classes on it...got it.

[Senser81]

I'll comment on the Penn State sidebar, because watching FT and W2B argue is like watching your parents fight.

Penn State can be compared to the UNC situation, because in the end PSU was covering up something so their football program wouldn't get in trouble. I doubt Paterno or the PSU administration would have covered up the situation if it involved, say, a librarian or a history professor. Because it involved a coach in the football program, Paterno and PSU tried to hide the situation so that the football program could continue to win. The motivation is the same as UNC's...don't get in trouble, win games. The only thing remotely egregious as the PSU situation was Dave Bliss (Bob Knight's former right hand man at Indiana...LOL) and the Baylor basketball program a few years ago.

Speaking of Bliss, I found this to be funny...so the guy is persona non grata in the coaching ranks, but he gets this high school job in Texas coaching basketball at Allen Academy in May 2010. Only a few months later in November 2010, he was suspended for two years because of illegally recruiting players from other schools, and giving players money for school tuition. Great guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Bliss

[FirstTimer]

ok, then who did?

Warner.

Read the damn thread.

[FirstTimer]

I obviously agree with W2B, but I wouldn't use the word "more offensive" when looking at the NC and PSU situations purely from a sports standpoint.

However, NC's discretions do violate particular NCAA by laws, where as Penn State's sanctions were handed down because the NCAA saw it as a violation to an NCAA code of ethical coduct which is vague and questionable in relation to what happened at PSU.

:michaelscott:

[Senser81]

:michaelscott:

[shag773]

:michaelscott:

Take it easy there Hoss. Not arguing PSUs punishment. Just pointing out if they hammered PSU because of a lack of institutional control, which many legal experts deemed hazy and broad, then NC should face a similar punishment for breaking actual NCAA by laws.

[FirstTimer]

Take it easy there Hoss. Not arguing PSUs punishment. Just pointing out if they hammered PSU because of a lack of institutional control, which many legal experts deemed hazy and broad, then NC should face a similar punishment for breaking actual NCAA by laws.

I'm not sure terming PSU's (lack of) ethical conduct as "vague and questionable" holds any water.

What "legal experts" termed it as such? Former PSU grads who are now lawyers?

[Senser81]

You think i'm placing a greater importance of academic/sports issues as opposed to the criminal issues. In fact, i'm doing the opposite.

My focus all long during the PSU scandal was criminal related, where I believe it belonged. There was very little in the way of sports/academic related infractions at Penn St when compared to UNC.

I kind of agree with you. Its hard to explain, but I thought the NCAA's ruling against PSU was the worst possible outcome. I would rather the NCAA not gotten involved if they weren't really going to punish PSU's football program with the death penalty. It would make sense for the NCAA to do nothing, wash their hands of the situation, and claim "the Feds are handling this...its not a football-related situation". For the NCAA to get involved and issue a punishment, anything short of the death penalty is insulting. Its like they are acknowledging PSU's transgressions, but then they are weighing it in terms of 'scholarships' and 'bowl appearances'. Either kill the program completely, or don't get involved.

[Senser81]

What "legal experts" termed it as such? Former PSU grads who are now lawyers?

[shag773]

I'm not sure terming PSU's (lack of) ethical conduct as "vague and questionable" holds any water.

What "legal experts" termed it as such? Former PSU grads who are now lawyers?

Huh?

I'm talking about position the NCAA took when they gave Emmert the power to hand down these sanctions to use the broad ideals spelled out in the NCAA rulebook which Emmerts stated in the press conference calls for "intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education." If you don't find that a littlel vague, than fine, I'll agree to disagree with you.

I do find it funny that you continue to try and change the argument. I'll leave you to your youtube videos, gifs and snarky comments. It takes me 10 minutes to load this page on my phone with the 15 gifs of MJ laughing you have littered throughout this page..