Interesting take on RedZone Channel

[Warner2BruceTD]

MNF schedule always suck, this season SNF has been knocking it out the park. What will always hurt MNF is them not flexing meaningless games but that probably has more to do with the inconvenience of a short week, Cant just disrupt schedules but the remedy for that would to do it 3 weeks in advance.

The problem with flexing MNF, is that CBS & FOX are already annoyed that they get games plucked off their slate for SNF. I'm sure the NFL would love to flex MNF, but they can't completely take a shit on the Sunday afternoon TV partners. Talking them into flexing for SNF was hard enough. CBS & FOX pay a shit ton of money, and with each new national package, they lose more & more marquee games.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

LOL. You couldn't be more wrong.

The NFL and DTV ripped each of those ideas from other sports entities and broadcasting companies. There is actually very little the NFL broadcasting has invented or innovated. Most of what you see during a football broadcast was done for another sport before it was applied to the NFL, the technology and ideas for DTV and the Sunday Ticket package are no different.

Regionalized games have nothing to do with the popularity of SNF or MNF. Nothing.

The NFL conceptualized the idea of out of market sports packaging, but shortly after, other leagues joined in and have innovated more for the product than the NFL. Much of what you posted about came from Extra Innings. Hell, a lot of the "innovation" in regards to the RZC and Game Mix and even NFL Network itself are rips of NBATV.

Just because they are the biggest and essentially monopolized, doesn't mean they are the leader in innovation of sports broadcasting...they just aren't. Much of what you see in any football broadcast was done elsewhere. First down line? Same technology that gave you the glowing puck. Stat overlays. Baseball. "FoxBox" or expanded tickers and trackers. Baseball. ESPN and MLB have pioneered the idea of internet access to games with feature suites.

What you posted is just wrong, bruh.

MNF was a Pete Roselle baby and designed to funnel an entire nation of football audience to one game. One of the primary reasons for its success was because viewership on Sunday was so split MNF created a single game during prime time hours for every fan to watch and discuss. That notion is not antiquated IMO. Its one of the few things keeping things normal.

I said Directv/NFL. Directv has been a pioneer in using DVR and its "computer" abilities for about a decade now. There cash cow has been the NFL Sunday ticket its there attempts to make there packages unique and to add to the NFL package that led the way for most of what I stated. Regardless of where it premiered first )most of which started for non sports reasons). DTV was the primary pusher of these in menu on screen displays and use of hard drives in order to package there sports. Im not really interested in patent hunting as my point is there partnership is the reason it became prominent and used. Comcast , TWC , Dish and others were so busy trying to figure out what to do about cable cards they missed the boat on a bunch of tech jumps. DTV basically lifted a bunch of stuff from Tivo and kicked them to the curb to make there own DVR. In the same way iPhone didnt really invent anything just borrowed and pushed things further DTV/NFL partnership allowed these things to flourish. I can assure you these things would still be niche items or rarely seen features if not for NFL/DTV.

At the end of the day NFL sunday ticket is by far and away the most option filled sports package anywhere. My opinion is that never happens with Comcast or TWC holding rights or it being a free for all.

[Cornelius]

Usually have two screens going:
Computer/TV/Playstation: Sunday ticket game
TV: Redzone

[BigBucs]

The problem with flexing MNF, is that CBS & FOX are already annoyed that they get games plucked off their slate for SNF. I'm sure the NFL would love to flex MNF, but they can't completely take a shit on the Sunday afternoon TV partners. Talking them into flexing for SNF was hard enough. CBS & FOX pay a shit ton of money, and with each new national package, they lose more & more marquee games.

Then do away with MNF all together, wont happen but fuck the shitty ass games they have had this season. There is a reason they are on primetime, we dont want no bumfuck teams on primetime television. Leave that shit for Thur night. Fox and CBS can deal with having 11 out of 12-16 games to choose from.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Then do away with MNF all together, wont happen but fuck the shitty ass games they have had this season. There is a reason they are on primetime, we dont want no bumfuck teams on primetime television. Leave that shit for Thur night. Fox and CBS can deal with having 11 out of 12-16 games to choose from.

I never thought Id say it but I wouldnt mind. Seriously SNF has taken those reigns and MNF is an after thought to everyone I know. Its not an event anymore ..Im not sure if ratings will back me up but on the interwebz and IRL I simply dont see people getting hyped for MNF as they did many years ago. Too many other options IMO even for me.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

MNF was a Pete Roselle baby and designed to funnel an entire nation of football audience to one game. One of the primary reasons for its success was because viewership on Sunday was so split MNF created a single game during prime time hours for every fan to watch and discuss. That notion is not antiquated IMO. Its one of the few things keeping things normal.

I said Directv/NFL. Directv has been a pioneer in using DVR and its "computer" abilities for about a decade now. There cash cow has been the NFL Sunday ticket its there attempts to make there packages unique and to add to the NFL package that led the way for most of what I stated. Regardless of where it premiered first )most of which started for non sports reasons). DTV was the primary pusher of these in menu on screen displays and use of hard drives in order to package there sports. Im not really interested in patent hunting as my point is there partnership is the reason it became prominent and used. Comcast , TWC , Dish and others were so busy trying to figure out what to do about cable cards they missed the boat on a bunch of tech jumps. DTV basically lifted a bunch of stuff from Tivo and kicked them to the curb to make there own DVR. In the same way iPhone didnt really invent anything just borrowed and pushed things further DTV/NFL partnership allowed these things to flourish. I can assure you these things would still be niche items or rarely seen features if not for NFL/DTV.

At the end of the day NFL sunday ticket is by far and away the most option filled sports package anywhere. My opinion is that never happens with Comcast or TWC holding rights or it being a free for all.

No, you said...and I quote...

NFL has been a massive leader in broadcasting changes. Much as I hate monopolies there is no dispute that DTV/NFL combo have pushed sports broadcasting of the NFL miles ahead of all other sports.

What I quoted and what I bolded is just false. DirecTV wasn't a pioneer in using DVR and in-screen interactive interfaces...TiVo was doing it as well as other companies.

Also, their "attempts to make there packages unique and to add to the NFL package that led..." is also false...everything you see on Sunday Ticket was done with other spots YEARS prior...mostly Major League Baseball.

You assurance that these items would be niche is ridiculous...TiVo was booming and was selling their technology to all of the highest bidders, they still are...DTV didn't kick TiVo the curb, they still work with them. Hell, their DVR is still called TiVo DVR for Christ's Sake.

Dude, your posts are filled with inaccuracies. Stop posting.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

MNF was a Pete Roselle baby and designed to funnel an entire nation of football audience to one game. One of the primary reasons for its success was because viewership on Sunday was so split MNF created a single game during prime time hours for every fan to watch and discuss. That notion is not antiquated IMO. Its one of the few things keeping things normal.

I said Directv/NFL. Directv has been a pioneer in using DVR and its "computer" abilities for about a decade now. There cash cow has been the NFL Sunday ticket its there attempts to make there packages unique and to add to the NFL package that led the way for most of what I stated. Regardless of where it premiered first )most of which started for non sports reasons). DTV was the primary pusher of these in menu on screen displays and use of hard drives in order to package there sports. Im not really interested in patent hunting as my point is there partnership is the reason it became prominent and used. Comcast , TWC , Dish and others were so busy trying to figure out what to do about cable cards they missed the boat on a bunch of tech jumps. DTV basically lifted a bunch of stuff from Tivo and kicked them to the curb to make there own DVR. In the same way iPhone didnt really invent anything just borrowed and pushed things further DTV/NFL partnership allowed these things to flourish. I can assure you these things would still be niche items or rarely seen features if not for NFL/DTV.

At the end of the day NFL sunday ticket is by far and away the most option filled sports package anywhere. My opinion is that never happens with Comcast or TWC holding rights or it being a free for all.

No, you said...and I quote...

NFL has been a massive leader in broadcasting changes. Much as I hate monopolies there is no dispute that DTV/NFL combo have pushed sports broadcasting of the NFL miles ahead of all other sports.

What I quoted and what I bolded is just false. DirecTV wasn't a pioneer in using DVR and in-screen interactive interfaces...TiVo was doing it as well as other companies.

Also, their "attempts to make there packages unique and to add to the NFL package that led..." is also false...everything you see on Sunday Ticket was done with other spots YEARS prior...mostly Major League Baseball.

You assurance that these items would be niche is ridiculous...TiVo was booming and was selling their technology to all of the highest bidders, they still are...DTV didn't kick TiVo the curb, they still work with them. Hell, their DVR is still called TiVo DVR for Christ's Sake.

Dude, your posts are filled with inaccuracies. Stop posting.

Stop confusing marketing with advancement of a product. Your Apple comparison included.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Let's say something else came along that captured people's imaginations the way fantasy football has, and for whatever reason the fantasy fad either died out or withered away to a point it became insignificant.

How much damage would this do to the league?

In other words, where as gambling was THE driving force behind the growth of the NFL and it's emergence as the real national pastime, a fact which can probably not be disputed, how much of the attraction of the NFL has been taken over by the less threatening (to the league) fantasy explosion?

Loaded question...

I think the Fantasy aspect has minimized the backlash over stupid new rules. People used to make a ruckus over any small change the NFL made regardless if it was for the better or not. NFL is constantly changing things and changes as much year over year as it used to decade to decade. "More points" has been the result and has kept many naysayers at bay. If in 10 years the dominant form of watching content was in mobile internet based programming I think the NFL can change pretty damn dramatically. Not sci-fi movie extreme...but "ugh I really dont feel like watching this" kinda changes the NFL already has reached for many.
MLB was perfect for radio era. NFL was perfect for TV era. I wonder what will happen to it in order to make it a fit for the mobile era.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

No, you said...and I quote...



What I quoted and what I bolded is just false. DirecTV wasn't a pioneer in using DVR and in-screen interactive interfaces...TiVo was doing it as well as other companies.

Also, their "attempts to make there packages unique and to add to the NFL package that led..." is also false...everything you see on Sunday Ticket was done with other spots YEARS prior...mostly Major League Baseball.

You assurance that these items would be niche is ridiculous...TiVo was booming and was selling their technology to all of the highest bidders, they still are...DTV didn't kick TiVo the curb, they still work with them. Hell, their DVR is still called TiVo DVR for Christ's Sake.

Dude, your posts are filled with inaccuracies. Stop posting.

Stop confusing marketing with advancement of a product. Your Apple comparison included.

You have no idea what youre talking about.


TIVO was used by Directv ,DTV kicked them to the curb and used a bunch of there software and implemented it into there own DVR with numerous new features and encoding Tivo refused to change to. Similar thing happened to them in the UK. DTV was the lone reason Tivos became capable of dual recording. Multi channels on the screen was all DTV. Please cite me where else this was going on as part of regular packaging. Tivo post seperation was debuting AD space overlays while DTV was putting out there first units capable of channel mixes and all other features described above.

TiVo was booming and was selling their technology to all of the highest bidders, they still are...DTV didn't kick TiVo the curb, they still work with them. Hell, their DVR is still called TiVo DVR for Christ's Sake.

Tivo thrived for about a 2-3 year span in the late 90s early 00 when rival Replaytv was sued into oblivion. Tivo was dying a slow death until it was essentially saved from bankruptcy by DTV money in 01. After DTV stopped using there S/W in 05 Tivo had to sue the shit out of everyone who used there product to stay alive (as others were following DTVs lead state side). DTV and Tivo eventually came to terms to avoid litigation as they both borrowed from each other.

Are we going to go back to the advent of picture in picture to try and dissect a point ?

At the end of the day DTV because of its needs and in short the NFLs needs and plans began implementing or creating every facet that we see now. DTV used new mix and sports channel mix , PopUp sports guides , YES network , NCAA and others as beta tests for there software because the NFL was the package that was going to bring in new subs. Putting every piece of interactive broadcasting available into its baby is why NFL is the leader in presentation.

At this point I have no idea what your disputing or why. What sports beats the NFL Sunday ticket in programming packages and option ? Where else were you getting shortcuts and multi on screen channels in 2004 ? Why does it matter if hockey pucks glowed when in the end FOX putting it to use for the NFL is why it flourished ?

You simply have your facts screwed up and are deviating from the point.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

You have no idea what youre talking about.


TIVO was used by Directv ,DTV kicked them to the curb and used a bunch of there software and implemented it into there own DVR with numerous new features and encoding Tivo refused to change to. Similar thing happened to them in the UK. DTV was the lone reason Tivos became capable of dual recording. Multi channels on the screen was all DTV. Please cite me where else this was going on as part of regular packaging. Tivo post seperation was debuting AD space overlays while DTV was putting out there first units capable of channel mixes and all other features described above.

Tivo thrived for about a 2-3 year span in the late 90s early 00 when rival Replaytv was sued into oblivion. Tivo was dying a slow death until it was essentially saved from bankruptcy by DTV money in 01. After DTV stopped using there S/W in 05 Tivo had to sue the shit out of everyone who used there product to stay alive (as others were following DTVs lead state side). DTV and Tivo eventually came to terms to avoid litigation as they both borrowed from each other.

Are we going to go back to the advent of picture in picture to try and dissect a point ?

At the end of the day DTV because of its needs and in short the NFLs needs and plans began implementing or creating every facet that we see now. DTV used new mix and sports channel mix , PopUp sports guides , YES network , NCAA and others as beta tests for there software because the NFL was the package that was going to bring in new subs. Putting every piece of interactive broadcasting available into its baby is why NFL is the leader in presentation.

At this point I have no idea what your disputing or why. What sports beats the NFL Sunday ticket in programming packages and option ? Where else were you getting shortcuts and multi on screen channels in 2004 ? Why does it matter if hockey pucks glowed when in the end FOX putting it to use for the NFL is why it flourished ?

You simply have your facts screwed up and are deviating from the point.

You must be drunk, this shit is so wrong, its silly, and the fact that you don't even know WHAT you're arguing just further proves that. I couldn't have laid it out anymore clearly and this post does nothing to refute anything I've said.

The NFL under no circumstances, outside of OOMP, has innovated or invented anything...DirecTV using technology as beta for other packages YEARS before the NFL incorporates it is absolutely silly and has zero grounds for anything you are typing.

The NFL isn't the leader in presentation at all...that would be MLB. Outside of OOMB (of which they debuted a year later FWIW), they have been on the cusp of nearly everything you see in a broadcast for other sports. Everything you see during a broadcast was used for and by MLB first. DTV has taken an insane amount of technology from other companies. As for all of the bells and whistles you are talking about...Extra Innings had those when they joined other broadcasting companies, which I want to say is around 01/02 around there. Stuff like "Game Mix" and whatever you want to title stuff like the RZC or MLB's "StrikeZone" was done first on NBATV when you had ol Rick Kamla guiding you through what you saw on the screen and where to watch. They started a lot of that stuff online before it was transitioned over to TV.

Your example to Apple earlier in this own thread is about as spot on as can be...they don't invest or innovate anything...but they market the fuck out of it and make it easily accessible to the GenPop...you are now trying to enter the spin zone of trying to justify them as being leaders in the market. You are out of your mind.

I've done extensive research on this when I was in college...you are so wrong on many levels in this discussion...I'm not going to bust out a 25 page paper on the subject...I'm just going to leave it as, you are wrong. Fin. Continue on.

If you want to tell me that the NFL has innovated and gave points that included Steve Sabol's videography techniques or mic'd up coaches and players...sure. You telling me that the NFL's current broadcast format is their own doing? Laughable.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

You must be drunk, this shit is so wrong, its silly, and the fact that you don't even know WHAT you're arguing just further proves that. I couldn't have laid it out anymore clearly and this post does nothing to refute anything I've said.

The NFL under no circumstances, outside of OOMP, has innovated or invented anything...DirecTV using technology as beta for other packages YEARS before the NFL incorporates it is absolutely silly and has zero grounds for anything you are typing.

The NFL isn't the leader in presentation at all...that would be MLB. Outside of OOMB (of which they debuted a year later FWIW), they have been on the cusp of nearly everything you see in a broadcast for other sports. Everything you see during a broadcast was used for and by MLB first. DTV has taken an insane amount of technology from other companies. As for all of the bells and whistles you are talking about...Extra Innings had those when they joined other broadcasting companies, which I want to say is around 01/02 around there. Stuff like "Game Mix" and whatever you want to title stuff like the RZC or MLB's "StrikeZone" was done first on NBATV when you had ol Rick Kamla guiding you through what you saw on the screen and where to watch. They started a lot of that stuff online before it was transitioned over to TV.

Your example to Apple earlier in this own thread is about as spot on as can be...they don't invest or innovate anything...but they market the fuck out of it and make it easily accessible to the GenPop...you are now trying to enter the spin zone of trying to justify them as being leaders in the market. You are out of your mind.

I've done extensive research on this when I was in college...you are so wrong on many levels in this discussion...I'm not going to bust out a 25 page paper on the subject...I'm just going to leave it as, you are wrong. Fin. Continue on.

If you want to tell me that the NFL has innovated and gave points that included Steve Sabol's videography techniques or mic'd up coaches and players...sure. You telling me that the NFL's current broadcast format is their own doing? Laughable.

Youre lost. Im assuming you got a C- on your paper. You have no functional idea of how the tech was incorporated or why. You are nitpicking without a clue. Your Tivo facts are wrong , your DTV facts are wrong, hell DTV "stole" much of its interactive stuff form OpenSource to begin. Your argument is flawed. End of story.
The entire premise behind interacting not simply displaying items also seems to be lost on you. Apple did in fact innovate just not what people think they did. Which is the same principle here. Without DTV tivo is dead. Without NFL DTV and others wouldn't have half the features they do. As I said you want to go patent hunting go right ahead. Im sure youll mention the Olympic triple cast and VH1s pop up video by the time youre done.

[MVPete]

Youre lost. Im assuming you got a C- on your paper. You have no functional idea of how the tech was incorporated or why. You are nitpicking without a clue. Your Tivo facts are wrong , your DTV facts are wrong, hell DTV "stole" much of its interactive stuff form OpenSource to begin. Your argument is flawed. End of story.
The entire premise behind interacting not simply displaying items also seems to be lost on you. Apple did in fact innovate just not what people think they did. Which is the same principle here. Without DTV tivo is dead. Without NFL DTV and others wouldn't have half the features they do. As I said you want to go patent hunting go right ahead. Im sure youll mention the Olympic triple cast and VH1s pop up video by the time youre done.

[Villain]

My two favorite points from the post:

*It's impossible to watch with people unless you all maintain a monkish silence. Any party with RedZone will result in a murder—either of the party itself or any understanding of what the hell happened in the NFL. You either force yourself to make eye contact with people and chat, or you stare willfully at the TV, making disjointed idiot-talk at each other. "I agree, Adrian. I think ... well ... with the Browns ... you just ... game management ... you ... you manage the, uh ... the disappointment ... in the, uh ... in the game." Any prolonged attempt to split the difference between being jacked in to the RedZone or being a social human being makes you start saying vacuous word-fill like Thom Brennaman.


*You can't do anything else, because you will get lost. Mom's calling? Forget about it. Cook dinner? Ahahahaha. One of the nice things about regular NFL broadcasts lasting three hours but only having about 11 minutes of action is that you can still follow the game while firing up the grill or taking a phone call. With RedZone, 20 minutes spent mentally occupied results in games turning into mush.

My sports-watching is limited to full-games, unless there are a few things I want to check in on at once (one Saturday in fall it was sonething like Notre Dame Football on one channel, UCLA on another, the World Series on another channel, and then a Clipper game - all with overlapping game times). So I'll flip between sports often if the situation calls for it, but even then it'll be one game dominating my attention and I'll just be checking scores. Sometimes on a score-check it will appear to be a crucial moment and I'll see it through.

I thought that was how everyone watched sports.


I also love to cook and entertain so I'm also watching games while cooking, even if it's just for me. If it's a Sunday in June and I've got nothing really going on in the middle of the day, I'll make myself a "fancy" burger or pizza while watching a 1pm Dodger game by myself.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Youre lost. Im assuming you got a C- on your paper. You have no functional idea of how the tech was incorporated or why. You are nitpicking without a clue. Your Tivo facts are wrong , your DTV facts are wrong, hell DTV "stole" much of its interactive stuff form OpenSource to begin. Your argument is flawed. End of story.
The entire premise behind interacting not simply displaying items also seems to be lost on you. Apple did in fact innovate just not what people think they did. Which is the same principle here. Without DTV tivo is dead. Without NFL DTV and others wouldn't have half the features they do. As I said you want to go patent hunting go right ahead. Im sure youll mention the Olympic triple cast and VH1s pop up video by the time youre done.

All of which would continue to make you wrong.

I'm not the one lost, you said

"Ill completely disagree with Larry. NFL has been a massive leader in broadcasting changes."

Um, they haven't...I've listed a multitude a areas where they have not. You continue to believe so.

Next thing you know, KoF will be telling me the NFL is behind HDTV, 3D TV, and VCRs.

Yeah, without the NFL, all of the other features wouldn't be there, despite all of the features being used elsewhere in some instances YEARS before the NFL got them...and then you try and say that was for "beta testing"...lawlz

I'm starting to think you work for DTV, and, like Bill working for ATT, spewing garbage.

[NAHSTE]

The NFL isn't the leader in presentation at all...that would be MLB.

:mynigga: