Jets Trade Revis To Bucs For 1st Rounder, 6y/$96m, No Guaranteed Money

[Juggernaut]

If Revis has a good season he is going to holdout for guaranteed money.

This is huge as well. No way he doesn't ask for a new contract after 2 years max.

[Guest]

This strategy has never worked, Exhibit A is the Eagles.

It's beyond being a pass happy league. In the grand scheme DB's are powerless to stop the passing games in today's NFL. Bargain basement is the way to go with DB's, especially corners. It's the last position I would spend resources on.

If you want to combat the passing game these days, it begins and ends with pass rush imo. Forget trying to cover anybody with these rules and these schemes. Find two cheap corners who are basically average, and hope you can get to the QB on a consistent basis.

Foolish move for Tampa Bay.

Agree 100%. The Redskins won the division with a streak of wins near the end with a terrible secondary. They won with their pass rush and spending their resources on the offensive side of the ball. That's where you've got to spend it right now. It's a league where any QB can tear a secondary to shreds if they have any time to throw, so you've got to be able to set the pace offensively as well as not give the opposing QB time to throw. While I think Revis could still make a substantial difference for a team, it wasn't worth the price the Bucs had to pay and I would have spent those resources differently.

[Aso]

It's hard to take out top WR's at all now with the rules, plain and simple. Secondary is become less and less relevant as the years go by. Not worth the 16 mil, no way. I'll come back to this thread in about 7-8 months time to either chew my words or call you a dipshit, my money is on the latter of the two by the way.

But you say this with literally no base. You're pulling this out of thin air.

No matter how hard you think it is Revis manages to do it. 1 td pass allowed, and a 45 QB rating in 2011 when shadowing teams top receivers.

In 2009 he had a historic year in coverage for a CB and in 2010 he started slow coming back from the holdout but broke out that season when he shut down Calvin Johnson to 1 catch for 13 yards. Then 2011 he was damn good for the entire season once again.

People have started biting on W2B's CB's mean nothing line and have now completely undervalued how good Revis plays. VSN posters have always found a way to discredit Revis so it really doesn't matter how well he plays no one on these boards will really ever appreciate it. Even in 2009 when Revis had the best season a lot of you will ever witness he was still downplayed.

[JBregz]

But you say this with literally no base. You're pulling this out of thin air.

No matter how hard you think it is Revis manages to do it. 1 td pass allowed, and a 45 QB rating in 2011 when shadowing teams top receivers.

In 2009 he had a historic year in coverage for a CB and in 2010 he started slow coming back from the holdout but broke out that season when he shut down Calvin Johnson to 1 catch for 13 yards. Then 2011 he was damn good for the entire season once again.

People have started biting on W2B's CB's mean nothing line and have now completely undervalued how good Revis plays. VSN posters have always found a way to discredit Revis so it really doesn't matter how well he plays no one on these boards will really ever appreciate it. Even in 2009 when Revis had the best season a lot of you will ever witness he was still downplayed.

My god, 3/4 of the posts of this thread are basically echoing what I am telling you. You are bringing up stats from 4 years ago and a season before his ACL tear. You aren't listening so there is no sense in further trying to argue with you. I'll bump this in 7 months to call you a jackass for thinking otherwise.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Aso year after year we see teams with complete shit at CB winning tons of games and winning the SB. I don't think anybody is saying Revis shouldn't be an upgrade or won't improve the defense, but you can win by lining up far far worse.

You are acting like being critical of a team trading two premium draft picks & handing out $16M to a position that has proven to not be essential to winning in today's NFL environment, especially when the player is pushing 30 & coming off a major knee injury, isn't a fair critique. C'mon. $16M is a lot of money to tie up in what like it or not has proven to be a non essential position. This isn't a QB or LT or DE. It's hard to win with shitbums at those spots. It's not hard to win at all with bad CB's. This isn't 2009. And even if Revis is still that good, i'm still not sure a corner is worth $16M, a first rounder, and a third rounder.

EDIT - there is a reason he got no guaranteed money. It's the knee. I think both sides realize this is a one year deal. If Revis isn't awesome, he's cut. If Revis is good, he holds out and is likely cut. Like I said, I think it's 50/50 at best he lines up for TB in 2014, and there is no chance he sees year 3.

[Aso]

CB's are expendable when you have great pass rushers... thats what you're leaving out. You're acting like you can throw any shitbum out there regardless of the rest of your personnel, you can't.

The only serviceable corner they have is Eric Wright and thats not saying much. Revis immediately makes them good enough to compete in there division for the playoffs.

And how do you KNOW that he absolutely won't see year 3...? You're assuming way too much. You're assuming his knee won't be ok, you're assuming the Bucs won't be willing to renegotiate if he plays well because the Jets wouldn't, you're assuming because he's gonna be 28 like 2 months before the season starts he's gonna start to decline... 28 Warner. When did we all agree that 28 was the age you started to decline. Thats absurd. 2015 will be his age 30 season. You're going off the deep end.

[Warner2BruceTD]

28 coming off a torn ACL. I'm not saying he will decline, i'm saying these things make it far more likely he that he won't be the same player. And for what they've given up to get him, he needs to be.

The fact they haven't guaranteed him any money would make me much more comfortable as a fan, because they can just wipe their hands of the guy if he's lost a step. But those are some premium picks that are never coming back.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Winning teams use high picks on QBs (unless they lucked into them/signed them/etc), OL, front seven D. You get outliers, but in general, that is the rule of thumb.

Corner used to be a high priority position, but in today's NFL...not really. I'd argue safety is more important.

Revis was an amazing player. Could still be. But they gave up a lot to get him.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Winning teams use high picks on QBs (unless they lucked into them/signed them/etc), OL, front seven D. You get outliers, but in general, that is the rule of thumb.

Corner used to be a high priority position, but in today's NFL...not really. I'd argue safety is more important.

Revis was an amazing player. Could still be. But they gave up a lot to get him.

Im convinced RBs and CBs are only selected in the first round out of habit. If it wasnt so rare to find a truly elite one even Center would be a higher priority than those two positions.

[dave]

Im convinced RBs and CBs are only selected in the first round out of habit. If it wasnt so rare to find a truly elite one even Center would be a higher priority than those two positions.

Under the new rookie cap, I kinda feel sorry for runningbacks. If you're a late-rounder and have Arian Foster success, you're screwed. You give your team four years of premium production, then face a likely franchise tag in year 5, assuming you don't get injured ... then at 26 or 27 with 5 NFL seasons are considered too old as an NFL runningback and will never get a huge contract.
At least Russell Wilson, assuming he has four great seasons, can look forward to a lucrative long-term deal.

While I agree with the NFL rookie salary cap in principle, it should be like the NBA's ... 3 years.

[Tailback U]

Aso makes some really good points.

Revis is 28 and coming off a knee injury. He is the best cornerback in the game. If you're going to compare him to anyone, you compare him to Charles Woodson (36) and Champ Bailey (34). These guys didn't even start to decline in play until a couple years ago. I know, neither had the knee injury that Revis suffered but they both have dealt with serious injuries throughout their career and they've both been the best cornerbacks in the league for the last decade or so.

I also think you guys are overblowing this whole "offense is everything and teams should draft for offense first" attitude. Look at who was in the Super Bowl. The Niners and Ravens. Look at who they both beat to get there - Matt Ryan's Falcons and Tom Brady's Patriots. Quarterbacks and receivers aren't everything.

Look at the last 5 Super Bowl winners and how they ranked in PPG allowed:

2012 - Ravens (12th)
2011 - Giants (25th)
2010 - Packers (2nd)
2009 - Saints (20)
2008 - Steelers (1)

The Giants (25) turned it up in the playoffs and only allowed 14ppg and beat Brady's Patriots in the Super Bowl. The Saints (20th) were a bend but don't break D that became notorious for timely turnovers and getting pressure to the QB (bounty hunters). They got past a couple of the best offenses in the league that year in Favre's Vikings and Manning's Colts.

And the Steelers beat Kurt Warner and the Cardinals to get their SB win.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Im convinced RBs and CBs are only selected in the first round out of habit. If it wasnt so rare to find a truly elite one even Center would be a higher priority than those two positions.

RE: Running back...

Teams overthink in the draft and when coaches get into it, common sense sometimes gets lost in the process. Coaches tend to have a ton of impact on the first round selection. They'll get involved in the draft process late and fall in love with a player based on what they think they can do with them.

The skill positions, mostly running backs, get elevated because of it, even though its completely unnecessary. Coaches see the player and dream up all types of ways to use the player...versatile receivers also get thrown into this category.

I can understand winning teams doing it, they see a player they can add that will add another element to the offense and team. Its unnecessary, but I understand. Bad teams? That is why bad teams continually stay bad. The idea of a foundation back is lost in today's NFL. I loved Trent Richardson last season, and loved Doug Martin more than anyone I read on the 'net, but when you can get Alfred Morris in the 5th or 6th Round and countless other backs with the ability to contribute, I just don't understand the need to pick'em high.

RE: Cornerback...

I just think personnel men haven't caught up with the idea that these players aren't that necessary in the first round. I do think 2-4, they provide amazing value though.

[Tailback U]

They declined way more than two years ago. Their reps kept people thinking they are elite. I don't deny either Woodson or Bailey are absolutely first ballot Hall of Famers, but neither has been anywhere near Pro Bowl level for at least 5 years.

Last 5 years? You're memory is starting to fade. They were both still elite 2-3 years ago. Woodson was named the DPOY in 2009 when he played cornerback.

I am seriously starting to worry about you, Dave. You are the only person who is getting worse around here every single year. I don't usually groan people but you just pull a bunch of bullshit out of your ass and expect people to believe it when it is so easy to prove you wrong.

From Wiki:

He had more interceptions in his first four years with the Packers (28) than he did in his previous eight with the Raiders (17). He also has more touchdowns (8 vs 2) and sacks (6 vs 5.5) with the Packers than during his time in Oakland. Woodson's stats have improved in every defensive category since joining the Packers.

Yeah, he really started to decline after year 8.

For Bailey:

In 2009, Bailey did not allow a touchdown in 80 passes thrown his way that year, played in 98% of the snaps and remained one of the best-tackling cornerbacks in the game.[9]

[Tailback U]

OK, I buy my numbers are a bit fuzzy Tailback U ... but this idea that Woodson or Bailey have been elite for quite some time is ridiculous. Woodson was moved to safety and Bailey should have been. I love both guys ... great players and first balllot HOFers, but neither is even close to elite now and shouldn't be brought into this thread. As an Eagles' fan, this thread scares me. Nnamdi Asoughma - alleged shutdown corner near his prime - looked like a journeyman for the Eagles.

Are you fucking retarded? I said they were both elite until 2-3 years ago. And then showed you that they played at an elite level in 2009, which is just 3 years ago.

I am comparing Revis to them because they didn't start to decline until 32-33. Revis is 28. He will be an elite cornerback for the next 3-5 years.

If you disagree that is fine. But don't sit there and try to tell me that Woodson and Bailey haven't been good for 5 years when they were obviously still among the best corners in the NFL until they turned 32. That is the point.

The concerns about his knee are legit because you never know how those things will pan out but I think Revis is the type of athlete that bounces back from this. He has that type of attitude and work ethic. Personally, I think he is a headcase and I don't even like the guy but I know what he is capable of doing and I don't doubt him for a single second.

If other players have come back from reconstructed knees and performed at an elite level, I believe Revis can as well.

[dave]

I have no issue with Revis still being elite. I honestly believe he's still the NFL's best CB. That said, Asoughma was the #2 when the Eagles signed him and became pretty much pathetic after.
No guarantees with Revis.