Jets Trade Revis To Bucs For 1st Rounder, 6y/$96m, No Guaranteed Money

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Aso makes some really good points.

Revis is 28 and coming off a knee injury. He is the best cornerback in the game. If you're going to compare him to anyone, you compare him to Charles Woodson (36) and Champ Bailey (34). These guys didn't even start to decline in play until a couple years ago. I know, neither had the knee injury that Revis suffered but they both have dealt with serious injuries throughout their career and they've both been the best cornerbacks in the league for the last decade or so.

I also think you guys are overblowing this whole "offense is everything and teams should draft for offense first" attitude. Look at who was in the Super Bowl. The Niners and Ravens. Look at who they both beat to get there - Matt Ryan's Falcons and Tom Brady's Patriots. Quarterbacks and receivers aren't everything.

Look at the last 5 Super Bowl winners and how they ranked in PPG allowed:

2012 - Ravens (12th)
2011 - Giants (25th)
2010 - Packers (2nd)
2009 - Saints (20)
2008 - Steelers (1)

The Giants (25) turned it up in the playoffs and only allowed 14ppg and beat Brady's Patriots in the Super Bowl. The Saints (20th) were a bend but don't break D that became notorious for timely turnovers and getting pressure to the QB (bounty hunters). They got past a couple of the best offenses in the league that year in Favre's Vikings and Manning's Colts.

And the Steelers beat Kurt Warner and the Cardinals to get their SB win.

Youre looking at it wrong IMO.
Only the Packers had an elite CB. The rest had lopsided talent in there front 7 compared to secondary play.Same goes for the Niners.

None of those teams 'cept NO did it without an elite QB/Wr/Pass rusher.
What good has Revis done for the Jets?
If you're going to argue he's been elite every year then again you're saying CB impact is minimal. The Jets success on D has been predicated on the front 7 not the secondary.

I'd love to see dominant runners and shutdown CBs in this league. But you won't ride a hot CB tandem or dominant runner to the SB today. Riding a hot pass rush and a hot passing game is a yearly occurrence and something you can't do without. You can't avoid getting passed on. You can't avoid a dominant pass rush... An OC/QB can easily avoid a CB all day.

[JBregz]

Aso makes some really good points.

Revis is 28 and coming off a knee injury. He is the best cornerback in the game. If you're going to compare him to anyone, you compare him to Charles Woodson (36) and Champ Bailey (34). These guys didn't even start to decline in play until a couple years ago. I know, neither had the knee injury that Revis suffered but they both have dealt with serious injuries throughout their career and they've both been the best cornerbacks in the league for the last decade or so.

I also think you guys are overblowing this whole "offense is everything and teams should draft for offense first" attitude. Look at who was in the Super Bowl. The Niners and Ravens. Look at who they both beat to get there - Matt Ryan's Falcons and Tom Brady's Patriots. Quarterbacks and receivers aren't everything.

Look at the last 5 Super Bowl winners and how they ranked in PPG allowed:

2012 - Ravens (12th)
2011 - Giants (25th)
2010 - Packers (2nd)
2009 - Saints (20)
2008 - Steelers (1)

We haven't been arguing that you don't need a defense to win a championship. If anything you've just proven my point even more as in CBs aren't a necessity. Look at these CB tandems for each of these superbowls (I've already posted a page or so back). They all won with mediocre CB's with the exception of the Packers. What do they all have in common though in terms of defense? A pass rush. Steelers were able to get to the QBs, Giants did it back in 07 with Strahan and company, Saints murdered Favre in the NFC championship and made Peyton look mortal in the Superbowl. Packers in 09 were also a force on the pass rush, Clay Matthews had his best season. In 2011 Giants were the basically same thing but with JPP, and the offense took more charge. Ravens as well. All of these teams were able to pressure the QB and allowed their mediocre and cheap CB's to look good enough to win them superbowls. The 49ers had the best CB duo in the game, hell they had the best defense. But they could not match the Ravens offense, who's defense had two mediocre at best CB's in the superbowl, but they were able to pressure the QB. The game would have been alot less closer too imo if it hadn't of been for that long stoppage either.

[Aso]

2012 - Ravens (12th)
2011 - Giants (25th)
2010 - Packers (2nd)
2009 - Saints (20)
2008 - Steelers (1)

How can all of you say these teams all have mediocre CB's except for the Packers. Maybe the Packers have the only elite tandem but all of those other teams had some good players at CB.

Corey Webster was no slouch in 2011 and the Saints tandem of Greer and Porter were a very good one and that team did not have any elite pass rushers. They blitzed a lot and had their CB's one on one a lot of the time with a single high safety. Gregg Williams was their fucking defensive coordinator. And Ike Taylor definitely had moments of greatness.

Revisionist history at it's finest.

[Tailback U]

Youre looking at it wrong IMO.
Only the Packers had an elite CB. The rest had lopsided talent in there front 7 compared to secondary play.Same goes for the Niners.

None of those teams 'cept NO did it without an elite QB/Wr/Pass rusher.
What good has Revis done for the Jets?
If you're going to argue he's been elite every year then again you're saying CB impact is minimal. The Jets success on D has been predicated on the front 7 not the secondary.

I'd love to see dominant runners and shutdown CBs in this league. But you won't ride a hot CB tandem or dominant runner to the SB today. Riding a hot pass rush and a hot passing game is a yearly occurrence and something you can't do without. You can't avoid getting passed on. You can't avoid a dominant pass rush... An OC/QB can easily avoid a CB all day.

That was never my argument. If you look back to page 2 you'll see a post where I said the Bucs have added a few really good players and upgraded but they are still a few good players away from being an elite D.

I even said they need an elite pass rusher.

If I had to play devil's advocate, I'd say that it is harder to find a true elite shutdown corner than it is to find an elite pass rusher.

Name the top 10 elite pass rushers in the league.

Now name the top 10 elite corners in the league. Can you even? And I know what you're going to say, but Revis is definitely one of them, so that argument doesn't work.

That's the other side of the argument. Is it easier to find a true elite shut down corner or an elite pass rusher? Obviously, pass rushers help corners, but Revis has established himself as one of the top cornerbacks in the game.

Cameron Wake had 15 sacks last season, 4th best in the league, how good was the Dolphins secondary and defense?

Charles Johnson was 6th best in the league and played for one of the worst pass defenses in the league.

Jared Allen was 8th in sacks for the Vikings and their D was average at best as well.

Elite pass rushers playing for below average teams and defenses. Same argument you are making for Revis on the Jets.

You can make an argument either way, and I do think the Bucs need a pass rusher, all I'm saying is the Bucs got the best cornerback in the league and he will make their defense a lot better. That's all.

[Tailback U]

We haven't been arguing that you don't need a defense to win a championship. If anything you've just proven my point even more as in CBs aren't a necessity. Look at these CB tandems for each of these superbowls (I've already posted a page or so back). They all won with mediocre CB's with the exception of the Packers. What do they all have in common though in terms of defense? A pass rush. Steelers were able to get to the QBs, Giants did it back in 07 with Strahan and company, Saints murdered Favre in the NFC championship and made Peyton look mortal in the Superbowl. Packers in 09 were also a force on the pass rush, Clay Matthews had his best season. In 2011 Giants were the basically same thing but with JPP, and the offense took more charge. Ravens as well. All of these teams were able to pressure the QB and allowed their mediocre and cheap CB's to look good enough to win them superbowls. The 49ers had the best CB duo in the game, hell they had the best defense. But they could not match the Ravens offense, who's defense had two mediocre at best CB's in the superbowl, but they were able to pressure the QB. The game would have been alot less closer too imo if it hadn't of been for that long stoppage either.

You see that little button on the right side of your keyboard that says "enter" or "return"? Please use it.

[JBregz]

You see that little button on the right side of your keyboard that says "enter" or "return"? Please use it.

The typical VSN comeback when they have nothing to muster up to comeback with actual facts. You wanna know why it's harder to find an elite corner over an elite pass rusher? Want in on the secret that's been hiding in plain fucking site in various posts in this thread? Ready for it dipshit? Scroll down below for the answer.....














Drum roll for this moron please!

























Because elite cornerbacks that can actually change the course of their team no longer exist due to the rule changes you fucking moron, why don't you actually take a moment to thoroughly read some of these posts by W2Bs, KOF, myself, etc. and maybe, just maybe you'll finally understand what we are trying to tell you. If you can't, well then I advise you stick to the the fitness forum or sports gaming because you clearly get your football knowledge from the latest madden games that come out.

[Villain]

[Tailback U]

The typical VSN comeback when they have nothing to muster up to comeback with actual facts. You wanna know why it's harder to find an elite corner over an elite pass rusher? Want in on the secret that's been hiding in plain fucking site in various posts in this thread? Ready for it dipshit? Scroll down below for the answer.....

Drum roll for this moron please!

Because elite cornerbacks that can actually change the course of their team no longer exist due to the rule changes you fucking moron, why don't you actually take a moment to thoroughly read some of these posts by W2Bs, KOF, myself, etc. and maybe, just maybe you'll finally understand what we are trying to tell you. If you can't, well then I advise you stick to the the fitness forum or sports gaming because you clearly get your football knowledge from the latest madden games that come out.

lol all that because I just wanted you to use paragraphs to make it easier to read. You sound like ram29jackson.

I didn't respond to your post because I already responded to people smarter than you, i.e. KOF and W2B.

There's no 1 player in this league that can single handedly change the course of their team on defense, so your entire post is retarded, and that wasn't my point anyway. But thanks for all of that.

[Aso]

How is anyone ignoring facts when I've told you that Revis IS a true shutdown corner. They are rare but they do still exist and they are extremely valuable. You just decide to ignore this post after post.

[Tailback U]

How is anyone ignoring facts when I've told you that Revis IS a true shutdown corner. They are rare but they do still exist and they are extremely valuable. You just decide to ignore this post after post.

But he can't single handedly change the entire course of a team!!!

What's funny is that he has an enormous impact on offenses but people downplay his affect by saying "Well teams can just avoid his side of the field or throwing to their number 1 WR."

Uh what. So he doesn't make a significant impact or affect offenses but he takes away a 3rd of the field and the teams most dangerous receiving threat. Got it.

[JBregz]

lol all that because I just wanted you to use paragraphs to make it easier to read. You sound like ram29jackson.

I didn't respond to your post because I already responded to people smarter than you, i.e. KOF and W2B.

There's no 1 player in this league that can single handedly change the course of their team on defense, so your entire post is retarded, and that wasn't my point anyway. But thanks for all of that.

I can agree to an extent about the defense thing, but that leads directly to the point made by many here, why pay a CB money of a QB (that can change the impact of their team) who is still recovering from knee damage.

EDIT:

How is anyone ignoring facts when I've told you that Revis IS a true shutdown corner. They are rare but they do still exist and they are extremely valuable. You just decide to ignore this post after post.

Because he isn't, that's why. I've said that as well as others multiple times so far. You choose to not read carefully enough apparently.

[Aso]

I put my faith in PFF's numbers and the thing is when they started showing stats on TV in 09 they matched up with the ones PFF compiled.

Name one other corner that can shutdown Calvin Johnson to 1 catch for 13 yards.

Go ahead, I'm waiting.

Saying Revis isn't a shutdown corner is just ignorant and laughable.

When teams have a collective 45 QB rating when throwing in Revis' (aka their #1 receivers) direction in 2011 then yes Bregz, he is shutdown.

[Matt]

Corey Webster was awful in the regular season but played at a high level during the playoff runs.

[JBregz]

I put my faith in PFF's numbers and the thing is when they started showing stats on TV in 09 they matched up with the ones PFF compiled.

Name one other corner that can shutdown Calvin Johnson to 1 catch for 13 yards.

Go ahead, I'm waiting.

Saying Revis isn't a shutdown corner is just ignorant and laughable.

When teams have a collective 45 QB rating when throwing in Revis' (aka their #1 receivers) direction in 2011 then yes Bregz, he is shutdown.

Whoopie shit?
Wasn't the 1 catch for 13 yards 3 years ago in 2010?
Charles Tillman held him to 3 catches for 34 yards from 11 targets this season. He's also making 3.5 mil a year.
Steelers held him to 2 yards in 09 with those CB's..
CJ has been held to under 30 various times.

[Aso]

Whoopie shit?
Wasn't the 1 catch for 13 yards 3 years ago in 2010?
Charles Tillman held him to 3 catches for 34 yards from 11 targets this season. He's also making 3.5 mil a year.
Steelers held him to 2 yards in 09 with those CB's..
CJ has been held to under 30 various times.

The game against the Lions Tillman didn't exclusively cover CJ. He was thrown at 12 times for 7 completions and 52 yards. I don't even feel like looking through the rest because you're probably wrong on those too.

And in '09 Culpepper was the QB on a 2-14 team... strong argument.

Yes he was held under 30 yards in other contests but never by 1 corner covering him exclusively all over the field to 1 catch.