Enough is enough. Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time.

[Derrville]

He'll go to one more before he retires.

[Guest]

Montana played in an era where QB's were still football players. So them old dudes always get the benefit of the doubt.


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True, but the beginning of the offensive boom we see today was beginning in San Francisco and Washington, where seven Super Bowls were won between the two teams in a decade. You had Bill Walsh running the West Coast Offense, and Joe Gibbs running the Coryell offense, which is where playaction and the vertical passing offense came from.

However, the difference between those two teams are that Montana was behind center for all of the 49ers Super Bowl victories, while the Redskins had a different QB under center each time.

[Glenbino]

Montana also threw to the same receiver group and had Roger Craig in the backfield during his ascent.

The skill positions around Brady have been a revolving door throughout his run.

[dave]

Montana also threw to the same receiver group and had Roger Craig in the backfield for his run.

The skill positions around Brady have been a revolving door throughout his run.

I would agree with this ... and I would add that Brady played in many different schemes through his career while Montana (while in SF) had the steady Walsh west coast. That's not a knock on Montana (who I consider the greatest clutch QB in history), just a bit of admiration for Brady who's played in many different offensive styles as Belichick and crew changed with the times, then at times went back to smash-mouth football.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Montana also threw to the same receiver group and had Roger Craig in the backfield during his ascent.

The skill positions around Brady have been a revolving door throughout his run.

Not true. He had already defeated the Dallas Dynasty and won a Super Bowl before Rice and Craig were even in the league. His leading rusher first SB run was a 600 yard random and leading WR a guy noone would remember if not for hauling in the most famous catch ever.

I would agree with this ... and I would add that Brady played in many different schemes through his career while Montana (while in SF) had the steady Walsh west coast. That's not a knock on Montana (who I consider the greatest clutch QB in history), just a bit of admiration for Brady who's played in many different offensive styles as Belichick and crew changed with the times, then at times went back to smash-mouth football.

This is why I give credence to the guy who was the system rather than playing within it. Marino , Manning were self contained offenses. Manning added the bonus of being the best play caller of his era. It took awhile for that WCO to get as refined as it did. Montana/Walsh , Marino/Shula , Brady/Bellycheat , Manning/ ?? Dungy and Fox ?? good guys but not in the same realm of coaching support.

Also Brady has only played with two systems. 1 is the play it safe defense/run game dependent 3 SB run. Then the wide open spread em out offense hes run post rule change. The only differences lately are run/pass ratio but theyre calling essentially the same plays from tighter packages so they can work the middle and short alot more. They've been running the same pickplays , and quick dives for eons now.
I will say they arent the most dominant but the Patriots have the most convincing Offense Line philosophy in football. As many changes to personnel and run/pass ratio as they've had to consistently be amongst the best for so long is crazy.

[shag773]

Montana also threw to the same receiver group and had Roger Craig in the backfield during his ascent.

The skill positions around Brady have been a revolving door throughout his run.

Montana won 4 Super Bowls with two different groups of WRs.

Brady plays in an era where the QB is a glorified flag football player, and defensive backs are covering receivers with virtually two hands tied behind their back, and safeties who have to wait until a WR are in a "defensive position" to tackle them.

Montana's passer rating in the playoffs is 95.6 (98.2 as a Niner). Thats almost 7 points higher than Brady.

If Brady gets number 5, I'll take this argument seriously. Until then..um...no.

[shag773]

I would have to put Brady over Manning for sure after this championship. Manning owns all of the regular season records but Brady has 4 Super Bowl wins out of 6 appearances. Only a miracle catch against the Giants kept Brady from winning 5 of 6 and also going 19-0 that season.

A miracle catch kept him from winning 5 of 6? They scored 14 points in that game. I think the Giants defense had a little something to do with that too.

I think Tom Brady is an all time great, but lets not rewrite history..

[Glenbino]

Montana won 4 Super Bowls with two different groups of WRs.

Brady plays in an era where the QB is a glorified flag football player, and defensive backs are covering receivers with virtually two hands tied behind their back, and safeties who have to wait until a WR are in a "defensive position" to tackle them.

Montana's passer rating in the playoffs is 95.6 (98.2 as a Niner). Thats almost 7 points higher than Brady.

If Brady gets number 5, I'll take this argument seriously. Until then..um...no.

Two different groups of receivers, including an extended stretch with the GOAT, forgive me for not crying a river for Montana when Brady has been throwing to guys who were nothing before they got to NE (sans Moss) and garbage when they left (Moss included).
The Niners won another SB comfortably without Montana while he was still in the league, at the same point in his career Brady is still collecting rings with a bunch of skill guys we won't remember in three years besides Gronk.

The era argument is dumb. It wasn't harder to win titles in the 80s, especially if you had an owner who outspent the rest of the league. The pass happy nature of the league today is just one more thing that makes it harder to have a dominant squad, which has been evidenced by the parity we see today compared to the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

Undefeated in the SB is a joke stat. If you're actually going to punish Brady for having less early playoff washouts than Montana, I don't know what to tell you.

All Brady is doing now is padding his GOAT status. Old guys clinging to their Montanas, Bradshaws, and Marinos be damned.

[Glenbino]

A miracle catch kept him from winning 5 of 6? They scored 14 points in that game. I think the Giants defense had a little something to do with that too.

I think Tom Brady is an all time great, but lets not rewrite history..

He scored the go ahead score with two minutes left.... Giants defense played great, but Brady did all he could to put the Pats in position to win that game.

[JeremyHight]

First off, I'm happy we are actually discussing who the top QBs are, not just who is good in the regular season.

Second, Montana still ranks #1 to me. He never lost a Super Bowl, consistently put up great numbers in the playoffs, and actually improved his QBR in the playoffs against the best teams in the NFL at his time. I'd like to see his QBR adjusted to the time in comparison to Brady's.

[JeremyHight]

So I found this for Career Passer Rating adjusted to the time period. It isn't from this year, but it does help to shed some light on some QBs who maybe don't get the credit they deserve from the past and into our current era:

[Tailback U]

Montana, Brady, and manning are the best quarterbacks that I've seen play. They each have/had great arm strength and accuracy, mechanics, a greater ability to read defenses and a keen understanding of the game.

I enjoy the chit chatter about which of them is the greatest of all but there's way too many other factors for me to think like that.

I do think that Montana started it all. The Comeback Kid was the first quarterback who understood his offense against any type of defense at an X and O level compared to those before him and improvise at the same time if need be. Bill Walsh and the salary cap of lack thereof obviously helped them but Montana's athleticism and poise got him 4 super bowls.

Brady, somewhat moreso than Montana, was blessed with a poised focus and the ability to adapt under pressure and a never say die attitude. His will to win and ability to adapt got him 4 out of 6 Super Bowls. Brady will always be remembered as just as cool as Joe to me but not quite as calm. He and Belichick will form arguably the best coach / quarterback in history but not without blurbs and whispers of the controversies that surrounded them during the Belichick / Brady era. Is there anyone who honestly thinks they won't make the playoffs next year?

Manning will always be the enigma to me. It's almost as if maybe he is slightly autistic. And I think he over thinks himself sometimes and gets too robotic. He understands defenses better than Brady and Montana and anyone else for that matter but his extremely limited pocket movement handicapped him and he had trouble making something happen when nothin was open. I think that's why he struggled more in the playoffs. When the game got more physical and the officials let 'em play a little bit he struggled. Nevertheless, the most "cerebral" and accurate quarterback of all time.

Amidst of all this i will remember about the rule changes and how they impacted the game and allowed quarterbacks to progress.

I wrote this from my phones so sorry for any grammar issues.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

TBUs post makes me feel now more than ever before that Manning was taken for granted by his organizations. I think Elway understands it a bit more but frankly Elway was never cerebral to begin with. Manning the bigger the game is becomes more singularly reliant on himself. He's never had anyone in his realm of knowledge and football IQ to talk him down and through these bigger games. Not an excuse mind you but something that's as important as blocking and a good target to a QB. Fine he's never had a RB or Defense to lean on but everyone in or right below his class Favre/Starr/Bradshaw/Aikman/Young had brilliant offensive minds and/or coaches in support. Just something to consider imo.

[Glenbino]

TBUs post makes me feel now more than ever before that Manning was taken for granted by his organizations. I think Elway understands it a bit more but frankly Elway was never cerebral to begin with. Manning the bigger the game is becomes more singularly reliant on himself. He's never had anyone in his realm of knowledge and football IQ to talk him down and through these bigger games. Not an excuse mind you but something that's as important as blocking and a good target to a QB. Fine he's never had a RB or Defense to lean on but everyone in or right below his class Favre/Starr/Bradshaw/Aikman/Young had brilliant offensive minds and/or coaches in support. Just something to consider imo.

How can you say Manning never had a defense to lean on when he was basically carried through the playoffs by his D during his only SB run?

[x0xHumblex0x]

So I found this for Career Passer Rating adjusted to the time period. It isn't from this year, but it does help to shed some light on some QBs who maybe don't get the credit they deserve from the past and into our current era:

this is cool
but
need a chart for post season