UFC 99 Thread (Spoilers)

[Liquidrob]

His hands and boxing/striking fundamentals are the same if not better today than they were when he was Pride. Take away his kicks and his stand-up game was average at best. To be considered an elite striker you need the entire package standing up, that includes offensive/defensive technique, footwork, and hands. Cro Cop didn't posses all of that.

If thats your criteria than I dont think they are any elite strikers in MMA and the ones that you probably think havent done it against any other elite strikers so it just makes it flash with no substance

[Warner2BruceTD]

Do you guys not understand what a unanimous decision is?

Clearly they don't.

Mind blowing.

[Steel Mamba]

If thats your criteria than I dont think they are any elite strikers in MMA and the ones that you probably think havent done it against any other elite strikers so it just makes it flash with no substance

There's a lot of elite strikers in MMA, but whatever your criteria is there's still a ton of strikers who were/are better than Cro Cop.

[RosettaStoned]

Clearly they don't.

Mind blowing.

You post too little.

[Liquidrob]

There's a lot of elite strikers in MMA, but whatever your criteria is there's still a ton of strikers who were/are better than Cro Cop.

Cro Cop was the most feared HW striker, had great kicks and a good straight left, it got the job done, also remember Cro Cop had sucess in K1

Name you 'elite' strikers please

[CrimsonGhost56]

Cro Cop was the most feared HW striker, had great kicks and a good straight left, it got the job done, also remember Cro Cop had sucess in K1

Name you 'elite' strikers please

[Steel Mamba]

Cro Cop was the most feared HW striker, had great kicks and a good straight left, it got the job done, also remember Cro Cop had sucess in K1

Name you 'elite' strikers please

He had great kicks, some of the most devastating kicks out of any MMA fighter that there is. But, as you see lately the kicks have been MIA and gone with it has been any credible wins.

Elite strikers off the top of my head:

not in any order

Anderson Silva
AA
Randy Couture is starting to put him self in that category
Nick Diaz, certain parts of his standup game puts him in this category
Faber
Sean Sherk
Machida
BJ Penn
Mike Brown good power and technique in his punches


I could name a whole lot more, probably another 10-15 guys, but that's a quick list of some of the more technical strikers in MMA right now.

[CrimsonGhost56]

sherk? good striker. no way i would call him elite though

[Steel Mamba]

sherk? good striker. no way i would call him elite though

Why not?

[Kuzzy Powers]

More of an elite wrestler than an elite striker id say..

[Bigpapa42]

So if CroCop can't be considered an elite striker because his kicks were more devastating than his hands, how could the opposite stand true? How could someone like Rampage who rarely uses kicks be considered elite? Sure, his hands, technique, footwork is all good... but he is still lacking a category. So therefore he couldn't be elite either. Same with Sherk, etc.

[Liquidrob]

He had great kicks, some of the most devastating kicks out of any MMA fighter that there is. But, as you see lately the kicks have been MIA and gone with it has been any credible wins.

Elite strikers off the top of my head:

not in any order

Anderson Silva
AA
Randy Couture is starting to put him self in that category
Nick Diaz, certain parts of his standup game puts him in this category
Faber
Sean Sherk
Machida
BJ Penn
Mike Brown good power and technique in his punches


I could name a whole lot more, probably another 10-15 guys, but that's a quick list of some of the more technical strikers in MMA right now.

lol, those guys dont fit your requirements you used for cro cop, but cro cop isnt elite and those guys are?

This is what you said

His hands and boxing/striking fundamentals are the same if not better today than they were when he was Pride. Take away his kicks and his stand-up game was average at best. To be considered an elite striker you need the entire package standing up, that includes offensive/defensive technique, footwork, and hands. Cro Cop didn't posses all of that.

AA has defense? He gets hit flush all the time, thats his biggest issue

Sherk? He has nice combos but has never beat anyone on his feet, pretty on the pads

BJ never threw a kick in his life, he has shown some flashes with his hands, but is more of a brawler and likes to scrap

Faber has really bad boxing technique

Diaz gets hit way to much, wheres the defense you are asking for?

Randy, sort of, 1 fight against chuck and than chuck with his 'no technique' KO's him clean twice, Randy doesnt have much power, but I like Randys style

Machida doesnt have good boxing technique, he proabbaly has the best tactical stand up going, but technique wise not really, Silva is all flash right now, dancing against Cote and Thales doesnt cut it, he probably is the most accurate though, when he has tried to kickbox and box he hasnt done that well

I could go on, but its early, you take away for cro cop's boxing, but dont count his kicks, his defense is as good as almost anyone on this list, plus Cro Cop has done more and out struck better fighters than any of these guys easily

You are again, like with Fedor, holding Cro Cop to a higher standard and basing these fighters on style over substance again

If those guys are 'elite' you cant tell me that Cro Cop was not, he has a better kicking game than everyone there and had a powerful straight left, he mostly got caught by grapplers and was looking for the shot, you dont think he has footwork? when he had his sprwal going and moving around the ring, his footwork was on point

[Liquidrob]

MMA is still a young sport, there are so many areas to be skilled in that its hard to find great technique everywhere, the sport is very much a jack of all trades sport at this point, with guys having there base and than trying to improve all the other areas

Striking is probably the hardest to master, there are elite level wrestlers, grapplers, sub guys, etc...but striking is still the newest part to the sport, at least at a high level

You won’t have pro boxer hands when you can’t train on boxing all day every day, a boxer or kick boxer won’t get to Olympic or division I level wrestling because you can’t do it everyday

There just isn’t enough time in the training day to be the best in all ranges; you just have to be competent in all the ranges to compete now a days.

Cro Cop was a high level kick boxer, he learned how to stop takedowns, learned to not get subbed, but will never be a ADCC type of grappler, or Mark Coleman in the takedown department, he was technically good enough to compete in K1 and was the most feared HW striker in MMA for many years

The sport by nature is an eclectic sport, we pull from kick boxing, wrestling, BJJ, Judo, K1, Thai, Karate, etc…it will take many many years to see the type of skill level you want to see from all the fighters

I am waiting for legit boxers to make the transition at an early age, just like when the K1 guys were coming in, it upped everyone’s game in the striking department, we need more of that, right now wrestlers who work on there kick boxing for 6 months think they are kick boxers and when 2 of them meet it and just want to strike it is C level kick boxing and I don’t really enjoy watching that

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Several close fights.

The Hardy/Davis Uno/Fisher were really close. I was actually entertained by the Uno fight. The guy went for 52049580 unsuccesfl take downs...finally the one that worked won him the fight. They were stalemating each other but it was just 2 guys laying on each other each was trying things the other countering.

I thought the Saunders fight got stopped a hair early.

Kongo is an idiot. Could have easily finished Cain off in the 2nd and 3rd rounds chose to lean and clinch instead. Atrocious ring awareness. Cain is a cream -puff. All those douchebags from his gym should be shot in the face for there "hes the greatest guy in the history of our gym"....apparently noone in that gym can throw a punch.

Franklin/Silva- As I was afraid of after that weigh in pic Silvas stamina was sapped. If he had anywhere near the energy he usually has he would have easily won. I thought he squeaked it out.
I would like to see a Franklin /Silva rematch. How can anyone not like Silva ? That exchange at the end of the 3rd was classic.


Anyways I think this UFC once again highlighted the serious flaws in MMA judging. The 10 point must , and the overvalued "take down" decided fights.
I think John Mccarthy had it right when he said some of the refs just aren't qualified ((I think this UFC in particular they were working noob judged in)).
I think Bas Rutten had it right when he said take downs that don't result in any damage or are immediately nullified shouldn't be weighed much if at all. Eliminating 10 point must and adding half points would also give judges more flexibility and give close rounds less important over more dominant ones.

Overall good card better than I expected.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Elite Strikers? Here are the best that didn't make the Steel Mamba list above

How about:

Manhoef
Marcus Davis
Chuck Liddell
Cung Le
Shogun
Rampage
Scott Smith
Mousasi

Now THIS is a list of elite strikers.

These guys won't jab you to death, they'll just knock you the fuck out. Good list.