Can someone explain this to me...

[wr50l]

Probability of scoring a goal during a fight: 0 (because play stops, right?)

Probability of scoring a goal doing pretty much anything else that has to do with hockey that isn't archaic and lame: more than 0.

The math works.

Correlation between lefty34's presence in a thread and one dimensional thought - strong positive.

Please forgive me for not replying to every single post anyone has ever made. Get real. I'll respond in due time

Bull effin shit. You were thanking your lucky stars that no one had called you out on ignoring that post.

[Ravin]

So what if they know more about the history of hockey, that does not imply ANYTHING (read: ANY-fucking-THING) about the legitimacy of fighting in hockey. None have them have done ANYTHING to show that there is a legitimate correlation between fighting and scoring goals. Just because you don't like my observations and you want so bad for their points to actually PROVE something (they don't) does not make me wrong.

Actually we have shown you time and time again. We gave you the example of Gretzky, Crosby, the Ducks and now the Flyers. Examples from four different seasons. What more do you want? You haven't made any point so far. Why is it that we need to provide stats that fighting does help goals, and you can get away without providing anything? Where is your hard evidence? You have 3-4 pure hockey fans giving you sound evidence for where it has helped in the past, and yet you, as a hockey fan just returning to the sport, are not willing to accept it. All this shows is your ignorance towards the sport. Maybe you need to brush up on your history and you will realize why the great one had so many points. That is a FACT. Not an assumption or theory.

People can talk all they want about the relationship on ice a talented star has with a goon, or a team full of "goons" that won the Stanley Cup, but none of that has done anything to prove or even hint at a correlation between fighting and something significant like goal scoring. I don't know how you can infer correlation between two things when clearly there is none (or it hasn't been showed).

Thing is, as said again, we have shown their is a correlation. It isn't 100%, because some people don't need protection to score, but the 'best hockey player in history' needed protection and that is why he had so many points. You can't debate against that, it is simply fact. And if you say it isn't, then you might as well leave this hockey forum now because it is clear you know nothing of the sport and are only talking out of your ass.

Just because fighting has been a part of hockey for years does nothing to disprove its silliness in the sport today, absolutely nothing. I don't care about the "culture" of the game and all that garbage: in this modern era (and in such a contact sport) there is no place for senseless fighting, especially when you look at the game through the perspective of an owner (multi-million dollar investments, and all that).

It has always been multi-million dollar investments. It has been like that since Gretzky's day. So this idea is flawed. You play hockey, you assume the risk that a) it is a contact sport and b) because it is a contact sport, if you are a good player, you will be a target. Nothing different then someone double covering a good WR in the NFL. You are the only one saying their is no place for fighting in hockey. You, a "returned to the sport" fan, and clearly have not watched enough hockey. Where as you have hardcore hockey fans who do not want to see it removed. I am glad the NHL isn't ran by casual fans who know nothing, or the league would be ruined.

And the fact you don't care about the culture of the sport is a little off-setting. The culture of the game is the sport. If you don't care for the culture of the game, keep your mouth shut on matters that have to do with it. That would be like saying "I think the Queen should be removed from England, but I don't give a shit about English culture". Why would anyone care then what you say?

Plus with your investments, lets look at this for just a second. You go out and invest your money is something. What do you do to protect that investment? You get insurance or security. Can you remove theift from culture of society? No, you can't. So you take procations. Well these "goons" are the insurance of the team. They are brought in and paid money to protect the investment of the team. Like anything normal, that insurance is well less then the investment, but is well worth the money if it protects your investment.

The practice of fighting in hockey is archaic and stupid and should be seen as a black eye (get it?) on the game, there is no reason for it (I have read everyone's posts in this thread, and even one of the lowest common denominator fans admitted to not proving or showing any correlation) and in fact hinders a teams ability to score goals and WIN (unlike what others want to believe, there IS a correlation between fighting and penalties issued).

How does fighting stop goals from being scored. Seems to me like a lot of goals are being scored and not that many fights are happening when compared. Lets look at some stats since you care so much for it.

Last season there was a total of 1230 games played and 734 fights, averaging .60 fights per game. Of the 1230 games, 509 games had fights (41%).
Last year there was a total of 7006 goals scored. Averaging 5.7 goals per game.

So look at these stats. In 1230 games you have 7006 goals and 734 fights. I'll do the math for you since I doubt you can do it.
Goals/Fights = 9.5goals/1fight

And I will put an * beside the total fights because if you take out all the multiple game fights (21) where like 4-8 fights happen because of a massive blow out, then that number would be much smaller. So for evey ten goals scored in the NHL, there is one fight. Is that really not enough for you? This is what tells me you are a stupid and ignorant hockey fan, because no pure hockey fan wants to be seeing hockey game scores that are 9-6, 10-7, etc. We appreciate the tough battles of 2-1, 1-0, 3-2, etc.

And I am telling you this now. If you remove the "goons" from the game, then you are going to be seeing these star goal scorers going down with injuries more often then not. Because if you as a player had the chance to take out a star and knew nothing would happen to you, would you do it? Most cases you would. Thing is, there is a difference between when the league can suspend a player for and what they can't. That is where players police themselves. You didn't hit Wayne Gretzky. That is any kind of hit, no just cheap shots. He had the 'goons' to enforce that. And because of that, he scored more goals then any player in history.

[Ravin]

Probability of scoring a goal during a fight: 0 (because play stops, right?)

Probability of scoring a goal doing pretty much anything else that has to do with hockey that isn't archaic and lame: more than 0.

The math works.

Probability of Wayne Gretzky scoring a goal while he is injured = 0 (because he's hurt, right?)

Probability of Wayne Gretzky scoring and leading the NHL in history because he has protection from players around him = more than 0.

Kthx.


Just thought I would add one more thing to this.

Probability of a goal being scored on an offside? - 0 (it's a stop in play right?)
Probability of a goal being scored after play resumes? - more than 0

WE NEED TO REMOVE OFFSIDES FROM HOCKEY. THEY ARE LOWERING SCORING CHANCES!
Because they are kind of pointless right. Grown men can't step over a line painted on ice. What is that about?

[wr50l]

WE NEED TO REMOVE OFFSIDES FROM HOCKEY. THEY ARE LOWERING SCORING CHANCES!
Because they are kind of pointless right. Grown men can't step over a line painted on ice. What is that about?

Probability of scoring while offside - 0

Yeah you're right, offsides have to go.

[FirstTimer]

I love how when this topic comes up you have guys like first timer come in post a couple times (obviously trolling) then just get up and leave. So fuckin useless.

Yeah God forbid I don't sit at my computer all weekend and am actually busy doing shit......

So honestly shut the fuck up.

Moving on..... All this "protecting the scorers" bull crap is backwards logic. Sure, with fighting in the game it may occur but the point is IF fighting were to be taken out and the officials and NHL levy hefty penalties, suspensions, fines, etc for cheap shots on guys like Crosby, etc then fighting would become a thing of the past for the simple fact that no moron is going to go out and take a cheap shot at another teams best player knowing that (without fighting) there would be no recourse to protect his own star player.

Plus honestly, this "body guard" bullshit is hilarious. If someone wants to take out Crosby for a game or a series with a cheap shot there's really nothing stopping them. Go ahead. Dive at his knee, take a swipe at his face. Fuck him up. He's gone and all the goons team has lost is a goon that is in no way nearly as valuable as Crosby. Is "fighting" going to heal Crosby's torn ACL or broken orbital bone after the fact? No. Mission accomplished. The Pens lose one of the 3 best players in the NHL and team X loses Mike Tyson on skates. Whoopty doo.

Take a look at a perennially good to great team like Detroit. Where do they rank on a yearly basis in fighting and penalty minutes usually? Up near the top? Nope...You know why Detroit is always one of the best teams in hockey?...because they are actually really damn good at hockey...not fighting on skates.

Oh and Leaf, just so you know. I have work and am unable to post from work so I'm not trolling and leaving I simply don't have access to VSN from work to respond to your ass backwards "pro-fighting, culture of hockey" bullshit.

Maybe I'll be on a computer where I can access VSN in a few days.

Until then...

Your team spells it's name wrong. Is poor english a long standing hockey tradition too?

[leaffan]

el o el.

He lives in Iowa.

We got a bunch of real winners here don't we.

[FirstTimer]

He lives in Iowa.

I also live in America. When was the last time a Canadian team won the Stanley Cup?

Hoser.

[leaffan]

I also live in America. When was the last time a Canadian team won the Stanley Cup?

Hoser.

Nice try.

[FirstTimer]

Nice try.

Odd, that's what teams from the south and western US have been saying to Canadian teams the last 3 times a Canadian team has made it to the Stanley Cup Finals.

[FirstTimer]

Around the same time Notre Dame won anything important I believe...

Hawai'i Bowl>>>> 2007 Eastern Conference Finals

[Ravin]

I also live in America. When was the last time a Canadian team won the Stanley Cup?

Hoser.

When is the last time an American team won the cup without its roster filled of Canadian players?



A thing during the Ducks/Senators series was that there was more Canadian players on the Ducks then sens, so the Ducks were the Canadian team.

[FirstTimer]

When is the last time an American team won the cup without its roster filled of Canadian players?



A thing during the Ducks/Senators series was that there was more Canadian players on the Ducks then sens, so the Ducks were the Canadian team.

Yeah Canada is such a hockey hot bed that it sustains a whopping 6 teams.

[wr50l]

To use statistics crudely, there's about 5.8 million people in Canada for every Canadian team, as opposed to about 12.8 million in the USA for every American team.

Despite this, Canada could support probably at least three more teams and the ten least valuable clubs in the NHL are American.

[Krebs]

lol Lefty. you're a motherfucking retard. please get the hell out of here and go to you gay ass internet radio show. peace. you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Ravin]

Yeah Canada is such a hockey hot bed that it sustains a whopping 6 teams.

And that is why each of those 6 teams is basically tops in the league in terms of profit. Hell the leafs I'd put up as probably the top team in all of sports considering how bad they are, yet they still sell out every single game.

You clearly know nothing about hockey or Canada, so kindly go die in a fire and leave this thread to people who have a brain to think. Big fucking surprise, another ignorant American coming in here pulling the "America is great" bullshit. Yet the entire league is filled of Canadian's, and each team has an average of 2/3rds filled of Canadian players. And since people like stats

Canada - 33,826,000
USA - 307,807,000
US is about ten times bigger in population

Canada - 6 NHL teams
USA - 24 NHL teams
US only has 4 times more teams then Canada

So yeah, ten times bigger population, but only 5 times more teams? GTFout of here.