UFC PPV numbers don't make sense

[Liquidrob]

We talked about this on SL a little, to me these numbers never make sense, they are basically Dana telling people what to report, the UFC is a private company and no official number are released, all the numbers that get reported are just estimates and thats it, or whatever Dana floats out

Just look at UFC 116, these was there biggest card since UFC 100, there biggest draw in Brock, etc...the live gate numbers (which are official numbers, not estimates) were 9,218 paid attendence, 3,522 comped tickets and 2,194 tickets not sold

Of course it was said before the show that it was 'sold out'

Now explain how the UFC's biggest card can olny get 9,218 people to pay to see it, but they get 1.2 million buys? The live gate was 4.05 million, boxing on the other hand jacks up tickets prices, gets bigger attendence numbers and almost double to triple the live gate numbers for there 'big fights'

Pacman vs Clottley had like 40,000 people attend and did 700,000 PPV buys, Mayweather gets like 10 million to 15 million on some of his live gates, it's just strange that official live gate numbers and attendence numbers are always low for the UFC but there PPV numbers are always maxed out and super high

[Warner2BruceTD]

Jesus Christ rob, take off the tin foil hat, and let me explain this to you again...

The estimates are not "floated" by Dana, the estimates are compiled by data from the cable/sat industry. Dana gets the estimates from the same place the media gets them from.

And as i've explained to you a million times, the boxing demo skews much older and much less affluent than the UFC demo, and are less apt to purchase PPV multiple times per year. The UFC target demo of 18-34 year old white males are far more tech saavy and likely to buy PPV events than the 50 year old men (that the actual average boxiing viewer age, btw) and lower economic class minorities that make up the boxing demos.

The cable/sat people have no agenda to fluff up UFC numbers, or downgrade the boxing numbers.

UFC does monster PPV business, get over it.

[Liquidrob]

There less affluent so they go to over priced boxing fights live and spend much much more money where the affluent UFC fans stay home and watch it on tv?

[Warner2BruceTD]

There less affluent so they go to over priced boxing fights live and spend much much more money where the affluent UFC fans stay home and watch it on tv?

Do you think Joe Boxingfan is buying those $5000 ringside seats to a PBF fight?

OK, i'll play your game, let's add up the gates of the top 12 UFC shows this year, and then add up the gates to the top 12 boxing shows. Let's see who's spending "much much more money". It wont even be close.

Boxing tops out higher at the gate AND on PPV, but cannot draw the consistant numbers that UFC pulls every single month.

You cant compare the one or two big boxing shows per year in boxing to what UFC does every month.

[Liquidrob]

You really think Average Joe UFC fan can afford all those PPV's a year?

and when it comes time to go there live they have no money?

The biggest UFC fight they can out on Brock vs Carwin and they can only get 9,000 people to pay?

[Warner2BruceTD]

You really think Average Joe UFC fan can afford all those PPV's a year?

and when it comes time to go there live they have no money?

The biggest UFC fight they can out on Brock vs Carwin and they can only get 9,000 people to pay?

You're right, Dana has every media memeber, cable/sat executive, and television trade expert on his payroll, and simply names whatever number he wants reported. That's exactly whats happening.

EYE ROLL

If live gate/attendance was a direct correlation to PPV buys, Frank Shamrock, who holds the North American attendance record, would be drawing 1M+ buys.

Shamrock/Baroni did 25,000 buys.

The UFC promotional machine is like no other in the world, they can sell anyone, not just huge mega stars like PBF. That's your answer more than anything else, ignore the demos if you like.

[Liquidrob]

Than why can't they sell out an arena with there biggest fight and biggest draw?

[Warner2BruceTD]

Than why can't they sell out an arena with there biggest fight and biggest draw?

Again, attendance/ppv are different animals.

How many shows does UFC run in Vegas per year?

How many times do Pac or PBF fight in Vegas per year?

You act as if a $4M gate is something bad.

Besides, I'd hardly call Lesnar/Carwin their biggest fight. Lesnar/Mir III would blow it out of the water in every measurable.

I mean, drop the schtick for a second. Do you honestly believe the numbers are false?

[Kuzzy Powers]

[Epidemik]

Having an event being "advertised / reported" as being "sold out" means the event "means something". It means that it is a big event. Companies use the same tactic with different word usage to convey that this is a once in a life time event that everyone has been waiting for. If what you say about the unsold tickets is true, then it was simply a tactic to give the fight(s) more appeal, saying that so many people wanted to watch this event in person, that they ran out of tickets. Even if that was not the truth, it will still have the effect of making the "value" of the tickets worth more. That those who bought tickets are lucky to have them in order to see this great event being put on by the UFC.

[Liquidrob]

Again, attendance/ppv are different animals.

How many shows does UFC run in Vegas per year?

How many times do Pac or PBF fight in Vegas per year?

You act as if a $4M gate is something bad.

Besides, I'd hardly call Lesnar/Carwin their biggest fight. Lesnar/Mir III would blow it out of the water in every measurable.

I mean, drop the schtick for a second. Do you honestly believe the numbers are false?

A 4 million live gate is great, you can run a successful MMA org just off those type of live gates, Strikeforce would kill to get half that, they barely can get a mill with there biggest draw and in there hometown, but thats not the point

I believe the PPV numbers are inflated

Its just funny every time Dana makes a prediction on a PPV rate buy before hand, he says 1 mill, it gets reported as 1.2 mill, he says 750k, the reports than are 800k, it happens all the time

Than he says a show is sold out, actually verified numbers say its not, unsold tickets and crazy amounts of comped tickets, Dana says a couple weeks before Fedor vs Werdum 'They barely sold 4,000 tickets', actually numbers are around 11,000

So the masters of hype and promotion can't sell out there biggest name in Vegas but they can get 1.2 million buys?

Like I'm saying, when actual numbers that get reported like live gate and attendence they just do 'ok', but when it comes to 'estimates' of PPV buys from a private company who's numbers do not get verified they always come out with high high numbers and hit a home run

you do the math

[Warner2BruceTD]

A 4 million live gate is great, you can run a successful MMA org just off those type of love gates, Strikeforce would kill to get half that, they barely can get a mill with there biggest draw and in there hometown, but thats not the point

I believe the PPV numbers are inflated

Its just funny every time Dana makes a prediction on a PPV rate buy before hand, he says 1 mill, it gets reported as 1.2 mill, he says 750k, the reports than are 800k, it happens all the time

Than he says a show is sold out, actually verified numbers say its not, unsold tickets and crazy amounts of comped tickets

Dana says a couple weeks before Fedor vs Werdum 'They barely sold 4,000 tickets', actually numbers are around 11,000

So the masters of hype and promotion can't sell out there biggest name in Vegas but they can get 1.2 million buys?

Like I'm saying, when actual numbers that get reported like live gate and attendence they just do 'ok', but when it comes to 'estimates' of PPV buys from a private company who's numbers do not get verified they always come out with high high numbers and hit a home run

you do the math

Why do you keep harping on Dana saying his shows sell out when they really don't? Show me any fight game promoter from Dana to Don King to Vince McMahon who doesnt do that. WrestleMania papers thousands of tickets every year, then they claim sellout, doesnt take away from the fact they draw 50,000 sold or whatever. All promoters a full of shit, they all want the product to seem hot, this in not some new sleazy Dana White tactic, its a sleazy tactic that probably goes back to whoever first promoted the Christians vs. The Lions. Everyone knows attendance figures are readily available, nobody cares what these promoters say.

First bold - You cant just say "I think the numbers are inflated" without saying 1)who is inflating them?, and 2)why would they inflate them?

If you want to say Dana is inflating, fine, I dont think he does, but he obviously wouldnt be above it.

If you want to say the MMA media is inflating, to kiss Dana's ass, then fine, i'll even play along and give you that one too (even though there are many credible sources who would never do that, most notably Meltzer).

But what would be the motivation for the cable/sat people to inflate numbers? That just means they have to cut a bigger check. If anything, they would DEFLATE the number, but that's illegal.

And what would be the motivation of the television trade journals, TV insider media, etc? They don't care, nor have any interest or reason to cater to Dana or bow at his feet. They are not slaves to any master. And that is EXACTLY where these estimates come from, the trade journals and people like Meltzer get it straight from the cable/sat people, and report the estimate.


Second bold - AGAIN, attendance has little to no correlation to ppv buys. Different animals due to many factors. For example, the hardest place to draw big for the UFC is Vegas, because they get so many shows and it's not "special". It's much easier to sell a show in a fresh market where people are dying for the product. That;s why UFC almost always does monster business with even the most mediocre lineups in first time markets. Local promotion is the biggest factor (aside from star power) in drawing a house. A ppv number is drawn by having star power, a compelling story, and solid TV promotion. Saying drawing 9,000 paid would automatically equal a low buyrate is short sighted, lazy analysis. It means almost nothing.

[CrimsonGhost56]

rob and warner battles are always the best.

[EmpireWF]

W2B baby!

There is no correlation between live attendance and PPV buys.

Besides Rob, you talked crap about Meltzer in the recent past. You'll find before 116 at F4W, he and Alvarez brought up the fact that 116 was not a sell out and yet on the 116 broadcast, they'll say it was.

It confuses them because White will do that days before the show and they believe it makes some people stop looking for tickets.

Stupid on his part, even though he's still making that coin.

As far as DW passing around buyrate info, I believe it's more as W2B mentioned with info from the cable industry being the # that people pass around. I know Meltzer has his trending numbers which he says are never exact but tend to be accurate as to how big a PPV did.

In the end, the UFC is the PPV king between MMA, boxing and wrestling.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

1. All promoters exaggerate gates. Anywhere close to sold out will usually result in "sold out". This goes for fighting , music , etc.

2. If Danas numbers are swollen it would eventually get out. Those numbers arent exclusive to him. Eventually someone would call him on inflating numbers by hundreds of thousands per event.

3. You can be a huge PPC or TV hit without selling out an arena. Its very common in sports especially during down economic times. Its the reason NFL/MLB etc encouraged the blackout rule. It was basically telling a city hell no cheapos..if you wanna see this on tv sell out the stadium first.