Boxing fans unite, James Toney is here to save you!

[Warner2BruceTD]

And that's the big problem I have. Everyone else gets a fair chance except boxers. Dana knows boxers will take the sport over and demand too much money.

Oh, c'mon now.

Boxing is probably the worst base you can start with if you are trasitioning to MMA. Wasn't that proven almost 20 years ago?

A wrestler or bjj expert can step in with no cross training and be competitive from day 1. A boxer will almost always lose, and look bad doing so.

How many major league fighters came from boxing? Noons? Phil Baroni? Who else? Brad Blackburn? I might be missing someone, but if those are the three best names I can come up with, what does that say?

During the early days in Japan, when they did alot of sport vs. sport fights, only the sumos and freakshow giants did worse than the boxers.

Now if you want to argue that a top level, world class boxer can dominate, I still say no shot. He will never be good enough to consistantly stop takedowns, and the footwork and distance issues would be a problem.

[Liquidrob]

Baroni was a high school state champ in wrestling I believe, might have wrestled in college also

[Warner2BruceTD]

Baroni was a high school state champ in wrestling I believe, might have wrestled in college also

Well then,the list dwindles.

Seriously, there are almost no top level guys who came from boxing. It just doesnt translate. And if you're good, you'll just keep boxing. A good wrestler has nowhere to go after amatuers are done.

[BigBucs]

I would doubt that it is completely true if a boxer is able to secure a high level MMA contract. 3-500k+ w/PPV %'s + sponsorships. With that most boxers could make more in MMA. Toney's boxing promoter even said that the UFC will be good payday for Toney, so it's worth him doing. That says a lot, if there was a huge discrepancy in pay Toney most likely wouldn't be doing this. The only guys getting huge pay days are the Floyd's and Pacquiao's of boxing. I'd be shocked if guys like Paul Williams, Chad Dawson, Kelly Pavlik, Cintron, Berto, etc etc are earning more than say Rampage or Shogun. No way. Either way it's really not about the money for most of these guys, it's about passion. If you're at that level in boxing, you've probably been committed to it since you were a kid, so it's going to be hard to pry these guys away from a sport that they love, even if they could get a few extra million.

Now, if you present MMA as a legit opportunity to showcase their boxing skills and prove that they're the best fighter in the world, show them some respect, maybe you interest a few guys here and there.

Im sure all the guys you have mentioned are making more than Rampage and Shogun. Alfredo Angulo just turned down 750k to fight Sergio Martinez....Alfredo fuckin Angulo. Pavlik has had several million plus dollar paydays.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Why would Toney stop if he can make money?

He didnt take any damage, you can really fight MMA and not take huge ammounts of damage in most fights, Toney will more than likely loss by sub, so he can string this out

He won't be making good money anymore. He will get the occasional small lower card pay day for an at-best Strikeforce (more than likely though, a bum freakshow event)...

Be real Roberto...what legit org will bring in Toney after Natural embarrassed him to the point he could make "real" money?

[Steel Mamba]

Oh, c'mon now.

Boxing is probably the worst base you can start with if you are trasitioning to MMA. Wasn't that proven almost 20 years ago?

A wrestler or bjj expert can step in with no cross training and be competitive from day 1. A boxer will almost always lose, and look bad doing so.

How many major league fighters came from boxing? Noons? Phil Baroni? Who else? Brad Blackburn? I might be missing someone, but if those are the three best names I can come up with, what does that say?

During the early days in Japan, when they did alot of sport vs. sport fights, only the sumos and freakshow giants did worse than the boxers.

Now if you want to argue that a top level, world class boxer can dominate, I still say no shot. He will never be good enough to consistantly stop takedowns, and the footwork and distance issues would be a problem.

It's only that way because the UFC wants it to be. Of course wrestling is going to reign supreme, it's the only athletes they're bringing into the sport and allowing to develop. It's not about having the best base, that can vary depending on the type of fighters present, so what it comes down to is simply business. The UFC uses wrestling as its' main talent pool, not because it's the best base for MMA, but because it's cheap. It's a small investment to bring wrestlers through the ranks vs the huge amount of money it would cost to start bringing over boxers. That's why they don't do it and there's no other reasoning behind it.

You can't say that there is when there have been a large handful of strikers with 0 ground game in the UFC who've been given a chance, Houston Alexander, Kongo, etc. So when you have guys like that being given an opportunity to fight and develop, you can't tell me boxers have no place in the UFC. You can't tell me that those guys present more upside in the long run than an elite boxer would. They absolutely don't, but they're not earning big pay checks either so they're worth keeping around for a bit. Plus, there's still this stigma of UFC vs boxing and I don't think the UFC wants to cave in and start accepting boxers.

Everyone you mentioned wouldn't count since they're not elite boxers and have not made a name for their selves in that sport. That's like saying Kimbo Slice is going to represent MMA when he boxes, but that's not the case since Kimbo was never a top MMA fighter.

& Everyone has to adjust, period. Whether your background is wrestling, boxing, or BJJ, there are a lot of adjustments to be made. You will not find a single wrestler with less than a years worth of MMA training that would be capable of beating any top contender. So, why should we knock boxing for the same? They need time to develop and learn the nuances of the sport, when there are lower level boxers who have adapted (Noons would fit here) then why should I believe that a superior boxer couldn't adapt as well? The UFC has the opportunity here to allow a top boxer to develop, but they're not going to do it because they have no interest in bringing in boxers (again money issue) and no interest in coinciding with boxing, unlike wrestling or BJJ.


So yes you give Toney the time to learn and he would be dangerous. There's not a single fighter in MMA who could stand with him. Also consider that there are lesser athletes with no wrestling background who were able to build a solid game, then why should I write Toney or any other boxer off already? That doesn't make sense.

[Liquidrob]

lol @ 'There's not a single fighter in MMA who could stand with him'

Some of the former kickboxers in MMA would stand with Toney and beat him standing, you must have never seen boxers in K-1

[dave]

It's a shame for boxing that an overweight, out of shape 40-something represented the sport in this sham.
This is almost as bad at the time Bobby Riggs (72 years old) challenged Billie Jean King in that exhibition tennis match in the 70s.
Toney reminded me of those 8-year-olds Cosmo Kramer was taking karate with in that episode of Seinfeld.
"But we're all the same skill level, Jerry!" - Kramer

[Steel Mamba]

lol @ 'There's not a single fighter in MMA who could stand with him'

Some of the former kickboxers in MMA would stand with Toney and beat him standing, you must have never seen boxers in K-1

Who in the UFC would beat Toney standing? What great boxers were in K1?

[Steel Mamba]

Dont say Cro Cop

[Steel Mamba]

On second thought, let's not get into the K1/boxing thing because it's irrelevant. K1 style is completely different from MMA and completely different from boxing. So can't make that comparison.

[Liquidrob]

Who in the UFC would beat Toney standing? What great boxers were in K1?

Anyone with a hard leg kick would be rough for Toney, Pat Barry, Hardonk, yes, even Cro Cop, a kick to the body would be brutal

You have have a warped sense of technical stiking and its ability to dominate, even a guy like Kongo would put the clinch on him and knee him to death

boxing has zero answers for kicks, knees, elbows, the thai clinch, etc...

[CrimsonGhost56]

i dont think anyone would beat toney standing in a 12 round fight. but who really cares? toney is irrelevant.

[Liquidrob]

i dont think anyone would beat toney standing in a 12 round fight. but who really cares? toney is irrelevant.

That wasnt the question

[SHOGUN]

Some of the former kickboxers in MMA would stand with Toney and beat him standing, you must have never seen boxers in K-1

Boxers aren't used to taking leg kicks and some of those slips would lead right to a knee in the jaw.

What great boxers were in K1?

Not great boxers, but here is a list of some boxers that competed in K-1:

Francois Botha
Butterbean
Arthur Williams
Shannon Briggs
Vince Phillips
Ray Mercer
Kazuhisa Watanabe (active)
Yong Soo Choi