The UFC will be embrassed 2 weekends in a row

[JeremyHight]

As bad as the TUF fight was, if you talk to any average sports fan the day after, almost none of them had any clue there was even a SF event.

Are there some great independent movies out there that nobody watches? Definitely, but if you want to talk business, you don't bring up cowboys eating pudding, you bring up money makers like Avatar. Right now, the UFC is big business and SF is hoping just to get by.

[CrimsonGhost56]

As bad as the TUF fight was, if you talk to any average sports fan the day after, almost none of them had any clue there was even a SF event.

Are there some great independent movies out there that nobody watches? Definitely, but if you want to talk business, you don't bring up cowboys eating pudding, you bring up money makers like Avatar. Right now, the UFC is big business and SF is hoping just to get by.

i hope SF can keep it together and do better. this is a do or die year for them

[Liquidrob]

As bad as the TUF fight was, if you talk to any average sports fan the day after, almost none of them had any clue there was even a SF event.

Are there some great independent movies out there that nobody watches? Definitely, but if you want to talk business, you don't bring up cowboys eating pudding, you bring up money makers like Avatar. Right now, the UFC is big business and SF is hoping just to get by.

lol, another post that has nothing to do what I was talking about, see the first post in the thread

When the UFC goes head to head with other orgs/combat sports they usually lose, I'm not talking ratings and fairy tale PPV buys, I'm talking quality and excitement

When you have to start bringing up made up PPV numbers and the UFC's 'popularity' with the average joe blow fan than you have no arguement

[calgaryballer]

From a quality standpoint, I do think that the Japanese orgs have an argument. However, I will take issue with Strikeforce. While it is exciting, that is where it ends. It's an organization of UFC washouts. I may as well watch MFC if I want to see UFC flame outs (which I do)

Henderson v Babalu
Hendo went 3-2 in the UFC, then lost to Jake Shields
Babalu put together a nice post UFC run, but is 1-2 in important fights in Strikeforce
Lawler went 4-3 in the UFC and then got smothered by Shields
Lindland is 2-4 over last 6 and is more done then Liddell
Mike Kyle has losses to guys like Wayne Cole on his record (who? Oh, 16-17 record)
Antonio Silva is a promising HW

Look, I like Diaz, but he went 4-4 against the middle of the UFC WW division. His new punches in bunches style may give him a better chance, but really, does it matter?

I know you hate to recognize it, but the UFC is the main event and it's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Guys who make it to the big show probably end up fighting more conservatively because they want to stay there. They don't want to fight on a ShoXC event or in front 7146 fans (the hendo-Babalu crowd) on Showtime.

At least when I look at the Japanese cards I see a.) relevant fights in the lighter divisions and b.) true freak shows.

[Liquidrob]

From a quality standpoint, I do think that the Japanese orgs have an argument. However, I will take issue with Strikeforce. While it is exciting, that is where it ends. It's an organization of UFC washouts. I may as well watch MFC if I want to see UFC flame outs (which I do)

Henderson v Babalu
Hendo went 3-2 in the UFC, then lost to Jake Shields
Babalu put together a nice post UFC run, but is 1-2 in important fights in Strikeforce
Lawler went 4-3 in the UFC and then got smothered by Shields
Lindland is 2-4 over last 6 and is more done then Liddell
Mike Kyle has losses to guys like Wayne Cole on his record (who? Oh, 16-17 record)
Antonio Silva is a promising HW

Look, I like Diaz, but he went 4-4 against the middle of the UFC WW division. His new punches in bunches style may give him a better chance, but really, does it matter?

I know you hate to recognize it, but the UFC is the main event and it's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Guys who make it to the big show probably end up fighting more conservatively because they want to stay there. They don't want to fight on a ShoXC event or in front 7146 fans (the hendo-Babalu crowd) on Showtime.

At least when I look at the Japanese cards I see a.) relevant fights in the lighter divisions and b.) true freak shows.

Please just stop with this non-sense, I expect better from you

UFC wash out or UFC reject has to be the dumbest statement ever, it means nothing and is just used to hype up guys the UFC keeps

You mean the Hendo that was in line for a title shot, that left on a win? The Babalu who left on a win? The Nick Diaz who left on 2 wins? What an awful breakdown of the Hendo vs Babalu card, lol @ all that

You 'fans' dont care about fights, you care about made up PPV buys, the UFC BRAND and popularity with casual fans

Also, when people start using terms like 'the big show' you know they have a warped sense of the fight game

[EmpireWF]

:youmad:

[calgaryballer]

The Hendo in line for a title shot against a guy he already lost handily too? And then flubbed his title shot in SF?

Or Babalu who got KTFO both times he got a shot? The Nick Diaz who lost to Joe Riggs?

The fact of the matter is, these guys had a shot at the top of the UFC and failed. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[calgaryballer]

SF puts on entertaining fights, and since I can't get Showtime, I download them and watch them with a buddy. We're entertained. But every time I download them, the conversation inevitably turns to how they'd do in the UFC.

Strikeforce is like the UFL compared to the UFC's NFL. Sure, guys can go there, win championships, MVP awards etc, and often times there would be some good football played. But in the end, the really good guys ended up in the NFL. The guys who couldn't cut it, no one remembers.

Even in divisions where they have guys who are legitimately intriguing (Melendez, Fedor, Ubereem) they can't get fights made. Whether that's because of someone's management (Fedor), a propensity for destroying kickboxers or an inability to co-promote (Melendez, though I can't really blame Coker too much for not wanting him to fight Alvarez) those fights aren't happening.

Why did it take forever for Shaolin to make his debut? I love Beerbohm, but how the fuck are they going to sell him as a contendor when no one knows who he is? His last two fights have been at ROTR. Who is next for Melendez? JZ lost to Thompson, so do we see a third fight for them? If so, what happens if Melendez wins that?

[EmpireWF]

The Hendo in line for a title shot against a guy he already lost handily too? And then flubbed his title shot in SF?

Or Babalu who got KTFO both times he got a shot? The Nick Diaz who lost to Joe Riggs?

The fact of the matter is, these guys had a shot at the top of the UFC and failed. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Everybody loses. Even Fedor.

What does a Diaz loss to Riggs five years have to do with anything right now?

In 2010, he'll fight Cyborg, then hopefully Daley and Tyron Woodley. The latter two, I can't wait to see.

[calgaryballer]

Everybody loses. Even Fedor.

What does a Diaz loss to Riggs five years have to do with anything right now?

In 2010, he'll fight Cyborg, then hopefully Daley and Tyron Woodley. The latter two, I can't wait to see.

It's a bad example. Fair enough. I'm on record as loving Daley, and would enjoy seeing the two of them fight. My only point is at the end of the day there are few guys on the SF roster that I think have what it takes to truly be the 'top' guy in MMA as a whole.

In the end, it's nice having a separate MMA org that puts on fights for all to see, with an eye towards the entertaining fight. Unfortunately, you can't just live in an isolated bubble and pretend the UFC doesn't exist. It does. And it has the money to scoop up most of the best fighters. There will always be a gravitas that the UFC can lend to it's belts that SF doesn't have. I'd love to see Felijao vs Shogun, Overeem vs Velasquez, Melendez vs Edgar. The talent pool is so shallow for SF that there are only so many interesting fights.

As I keep typing, I am turning myself in circles. My biggest problem with SF is that they really haven't created any of their own stars. If they want to get in to the discussion, it can't be with guys who fans remember losing in the UFC. Put Beerbohm in a contenders fight or a title fight, let the fans discuss what his chances are against Maynard. That's why Pride was so damn good. They had a batch of stars, the UFC had a batch of stars and you could dream of what would happen should they face off. For the most part, SF has guys who have faced off in the UFC, and at best came out just over .500

[Liquidrob]

The Hendo in line for a title shot against a guy he already lost handily too? And then flubbed his title shot in SF?

Or Babalu who got KTFO both times he got a shot? The Nick Diaz who lost to Joe Riggs?

The fact of the matter is, these guys had a shot at the top of the UFC and failed. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

lol @ even trying to put Hendo in the 'UFC cast off' class, what a joke

So a guy who wins 2 in a row, knocks Bisping into the 3rd row, promised the 'UFC title shot' and doesnt re-sign is just UFC left overs, for a long time fan like yourself I am amazed right now

So you're telling me with these examples that fighters lose? Wow, what a revalation!

[Liquidrob]

Also you shills are missing a key point, the UFC costs 50 bucks

Strikeforce is on Showtime which comes with a package, DREAM, Sengoku, etc...are on HDNet

For 50 bucks the UFC should be putting on these amazing cards with high quality and excitement compared to these 'little shows', the 'big show' isnt doing that, sorry to break it to you

[calgaryballer]

Also you shills are missing a key point, the UFC costs 50 bucks

Strikeforce is on Showtime which comes with a package, DREAM, Sengoku, etc...are on HDNet

For 50 bucks the UFC should be putting on these amazing cards with high quality and excitement compared to these 'little shows', the 'big show' isnt doing that, sorry to break it to you

That's a fair criticism. I don't think anyone has ever denied that.

However, if SF had a chance to get on PPV they would IMO. They've had a chance to learn from Affliction and EXC that maybe it's not the best idea to jump right in. Shitty PPV's from some orgs still cost $35. You don't think SF would jump in at the $40 price point?

They just can't put together shows that would make fans want to pay that money. The last CBS show was supposed to be that one, and it fizzled (can't blame the match making though, three very intriguing fights)

Free MMA is free MMA. I'll watch it all, which is why I have a DVR full of MFC and KOTC reruns from HDNET.

[CrimsonGhost56]

Strikeforce would give their left nut for a PPV show. lets not kid ourselves.

[EmpireWF]

Strikeforce would give their left nut for a PPV show. lets not kid ourselves.

Strikeforce would give their right nut to get their top heavyweights in order. be real.