The General Wrestling Thread

[FedEx227]

I'm with you at this point. I held out hope, but he's not Bryan Danielson no matter how much I hoped he would be. So, it is what it is, yesterday was the last time I'll honestly care what they do with him.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Granted, he's still been way over and good for him, I'm really glad but I can't help but wonder if one day people will just say "This guy is a fucking geek" and stop screaming Yes. It hasn't happened yet, but I'm not sure how often you can make him the fodder before it happens or before management decides he needs to put a suit on and work as an analyst.

To me, this is a better question than whether he's getting a star push. I don't really see a debate in the latter. As for the former, they could absolutely fuck up what they established if they keep jerking this character around. Personally I think he's teflon and he can't be hurt unless they do something extreme. He connects with teh crowd as an underdog like very few others can.

[s@ppisgod]

I get that. It's cool to see one of "our" guys win the top prize. I totally get that this is why the "smart" fans are in an uproar every month when they find a new way to screw this character out of it.

But let's again remember that they don't write their stories for us. I've said this before, and i'll say it again. Bryan Danielson, wrestler extraordinaire, "Best in the World", is not who is over with the WWE genpop*. Fuck, Punk even stole his gimmick. Daniel Bryan, overachieving goat boy, YES YES YES never say die little guy, doesn't-know-any-better underdog, is who is over. That is his character, and that is who is over with the people.

At the start of this I thought they were slowly getting away from that character. They clearly aren't. So my interest in this entire thing went from intrigued, to not giving a single fuck because you know how I feel about goat boy YES YES YES Daniel Bryan. Even his great matches can't overcome that cartoon character for me. I find him just as annoying as the Bushwhackers & Santino.

*copyright larry

You found the Bushwackers annoying?!

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

What?

I'm not even watching this crap, what are you going on about?

From what i'm reading, they just set up Daniel Bryan vs Shawn Michaels.

THAT i'll watch.

To be fair, you battled pretty hard, even ranted on the podcast how THIS angle was going to make Daniel Bryan a BIGGER STAR.

It is pretty clear that is not going to happen here. Like I said, he was made after John Cena and putting him back in the chase position isn't the way to go. The end result of Hell in a Cell was pretty disappointing. Bryan actually put together a solid first 15 minutes for that match before they overbooked it like crazy.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

He's already a star, that was accomplished when he beat Cena clean in the middle.

The argument would be, are they damaging him?

I have a serious question for you guys. In modern WWE, does winning the title matter in the grand scheme? In other words, does he even need to win the title to justify the fact he's now being pushed as a top guy? Because here's what I see, I see a guy who has still main evented every single PPV since August (four of them), including one where Cena was back.

Not saying anybody here has used this word, but others have and it is sure being implied here...please explain how this is some sort of cockeyed burial. I'm sure 90% of the roster would want this burial.

I think you guys are wrapped up in the idea that the title means something. Randy Orton is the champ, and he's the same upper mid card non draw that he's always been. Who cares?

They have not made him a "bigger star" with this angle...the preliminary talk is that this program just wasn't a draw...numerous PPVs that have supposedly done under what they expected. We'll see when Big Dave releases the buyrate figures on this one.

Are they damaging him? I would say no...he's still the same guy as he was when he immediately beat Cena, which is TOP GUY. Unfortunately, they made Daniel Bryan winning the WWE title a bit of a joke and it is no longer going to be special when he finally does win it.

Does winning the title matter? Yes. This back and forth with Bryan and Orton, IMO, has damaged the title a little bit. CM Punk, The Rock, and John Cena held that title for a combined 600 days with strong, consecutive title defense booking. They were/are all TOP GUYZ and were booked like it as champion. If you go Cena to Bryan, and give Bryan a run...it maintains the strength. Now...its kind of back to ol Albert Del Rio level of title.

I think you are disregarding the good that was done to the title over the past two years.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

As I've said time and time again, I think the title matters if the guy is what we fans consider a "wrestler". When CM Punk won the title at Money in the Bank 2011, it was an accomplishment for the IWC and the smart fans with the idea that, NOW this title is legit because one of the best wrestlers in the world has it.

There's instant credibility in those type of guys breaking the mold and holding the strap for a given amount of time. We know it's just a prop when Orton or Cena win it because, fuck, those guys have each won it 10 plus times. For a guy like Punk or Bryan, it's still something different and special because we the fans are smart enough to know Vince would prefer these guys not sniff the top of his company.

There's some pleasure in seeing a guy you use to watch in smoky gyms with 100 other people ascend to the top of a billion dollar wrestling company. When that's constantly taken away from you or swerved away from you, eventually you just kind of say "Fuck it" and yeah, the title as you mentioned becomes meaningless even when the guy you've been rooting for for 10-15 years gets it.

I've said this from the get-go as well, this angle can be done with any wrestler on the roster. This shitshow of a "best for business" storyline could have been done with The Miz to largely the same effect. Daniel Bryan deserves better because he is better. He's earned the chance to have a solid run at the top of the company ala CM Punk/Heyman last year. Instead, he's an accessory to a larger storyline. Granted, he's still been way over and good for him, I'm really glad but I can't help but wonder if one day people will just say "This guy is a fucking geek" and stop screaming Yes. It hasn't happened yet, but I'm not sure how often you can make him the fodder before it happens or before management decides he needs to put a suit on and work as an analyst.

With any of these "internet darlings", you feel like you're on borrowed time with them at the top of the company so to have 5 months of him being in main event is great, but the matches haven't been particularly good because there's so much bullshit in and around them. He was having way better matches with the same guys on TV months ago.

IMO, you give the belt to Cena, the belt is legit...Cena is the TOP GUY...the top belt should always be on the TOP GUY or a guy you want to be the TOP GUY (I don't have a problem giving a title run to a guy you want to be a top guy, but Randy Orton doesn't need his 8th run with this title...he's not a draw, and never will be...give him the WHC if you want a belt on him).

You don't give the belt to a guy who has held the belt before...numerous times...and hasn't drawn...like Randy Orton or Alberto Del Rio or the Big Show or whomever is in that category.

[JimLeavy59]

Something about this picture.

[Warner2BruceTD]

To be fair, you battled pretty hard, even ranted on the podcast how THIS angle was going to make Daniel Bryan a BIGGER STAR.

It is pretty clear that is not going to happen here. Like I said, he was made after John Cena and putting him back in the chase position isn't the way to go. The end result of Hell in a Cell was pretty disappointing. Bryan actually put together a solid first 15 minutes for that match before they overbooked it like crazy.

The latest rumblings are that he will move into an in ring feud with Triple H, which if that happens is a much better position on the card than a title program with Orton. He is also the early favorite to win the Royal Rumble.

I think you guys are too wrapped up in match results. This is WWE, not New Japan or 1991 All Japan or 2005 ROH.

It's been clearly established in storyline that he's superior to Orton. Orton can not beat the man without tons of help, and then still loses half the time. Orton is the goof being protected by the McMahons.

If they do the Triple H thing, he'll win that feud in the end (disclaimer - if Triple H beats Bryan in a blow off match, I will concede that they have gone completely insane).

If he wins the Rumble, he's headlining Mania.

Look, I never said I liked the storyline. It's typical WWE soap opera shit. I still say Bryan is a bigger star coming out of this. If he isn't, as much as they are behind him, it isn't meant to be. They were never going to shave his beard, kill the cartoon gimmick, and have him run with the title for a year. Not the company m.o., you guys know better. This is it, he's a cartoon, he's gotten to the top with this gimmick and it isn't going anywhere. I misread the tea leaves on that aspect. I thought he'd be shaved by now and behaving like a human being, especially since Total Divas "humanized" him.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

The latest rumblings are that he will move into an in ring feud with Triple H, which if that happens is a much better position on the card than a title program with Orton. He is also the early favorite to win the Royal Rumble.

I think you guys are too wrapped up in match results. This is WWE, not New Japan or 1991 All Japan or 2005 ROH.

It's been clearly established in storyline that he's superior to Orton. Orton can not beat the man without tons of help, and then still loses half the time. Orton is the goof being protected by the McMahons.

If they do the Triple H thing, he'll win that feud in the end (disclaimer - if Triple H beats Bryan in a blow off match, I will concede that they have gone completely insane).

If he wins the Rumble, he's headlining Mania.

Look, I never said I liked the storyline. It's typical WWE soap opera shit. I still say Bryan is a bigger star coming out of this. If he isn't, as much as they are behind him, it isn't meant to be. They were never going to shave his beard, kill the cartoon gimmick, and have him run with the title for a year. Not the company m.o., you guys know better. This is it, he's a cartoon, he's gotten to the top with this gimmick and it isn't going anywhere. I misread the tea leaves on that aspect. I thought he'd be shaved by now and behaving like a human being, especially since Total Divas "humanized" him.

They did with CM Punk and it did good business and it put a lot of the real life prestige back into a title that, before it, was at the same level it was back in the mid-00's when they flip flopped it back and forth every 40 days.

They did this same fruity shit with HHH with CM Punk after he beat Cena...it didn't do good business and it didn't advance Punk. It was basically running in place until Survivor Series when Punk won the title back and he then went on to become a legit draw...not Cena or Rock level draw, but he kept up his end of the bargain as a draw, but it wasn't only until they ran with him for a bit as the champ. They could have cut to the chase with Bryan...learn from their past mistakes with Punk and put the title on Bryan and let him run...THAT would have made him a bigger star.

[Guest]

I think they are trying harder on this RAW than the past three PPVs combined.

[EmpireWF]

lol at the old Shawn Michaels cracking through

[Dan The Man]

Raw Is Rematches

[Guest]

How Miz has fallen......

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

That was the best cash in of a Money in the Bank since RVD cashed it in on Cena many years ago.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

So, this is where we move Daniel Bryan down the card and/or on to something else while we move BIG SHOW into the title picture. Boo-urns.