The General Wrestling Thread

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Loved that DDP/Savage feud. DDP was still in the process of evolving as a worker, people forget he was pretty crappy as recently as his Johnny B Badd feud in 95/96. They were both flawed workers at the time, as you mention it's right before Savage COMPLETELY falls apart as an in-ring wrestler (both figuratively and literally.) But they were both natural overachievers, so the end result is something very watchable even today.

You had two guys that were very very meticulous about their match layout and planned everything in advance and it led to some good matches by two old guys.

I need to rewatch some of these matches, because I am curious to see how they hold up. The WCW main event scene was TERRIBLE. So, I'm hoping that if I watch these matches in a bubble, they aren't underwhelming because at the time, they were just "better" than the shit WCW was trotting out there with Nash, Hall, Hogan, Goldberg, Sting, etc.

[FedEx227]

I think that feud made DDP a better worker, in fact there's no way around it. What came of it was DDP becoming a lot like Savage in wanting every move mapped out ahead of time.. obviously there are pros and cons to that approach but for someone like DDP it was the impetuous to finally "getting it" and finally harnessing his potential into something tangible.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I think that feud made DDP a better worker, in fact there's no way around it. What came of it was DDP becoming a lot like Savage in wanting every move mapped out ahead of time.. obviously there are pros and cons to that approach but for someone like DDP it was the impetuous to finally "getting it" and finally harnessing his potential into something tangible.

I'm really curious to see how those hold up.

I'm hoping that I don't remember the ring work fondly simply because it was decent work masquerading around as great work in a sea of utter shit.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

So, I guess word on the street is that Solomon Crowe debuted, but didn't debut as a hacker or Adam Rose's DJ...he just debuted as Sami Callihan.

[Guest]

The stories are dated, too.

The whole "Badass v. The Boss" is a pretty dated concept...they are even running some anti-establishment angles now, and they still feel kind of dated, but the Austin v. McMahon story was insanely dated and there isn't matches that stand the test of time. Austin had some good matches at this time, but they were all brawls and those got old quick. Even today, these angles have been done TO DEATH, so not only do they feel dated, but they are re-hashed and boring.

You don't see these angles being run constantly in Japan. They've evolved a bit. The WWE and even TNA just run these anti-establishment angles over and over and over. New GM, new face or heel...over and over and over.

As for anything other than the main event scene on RAW...total crap. As in, unwatchable. I'm not even talking PPV, which was crap, but fuck, undercard of RAW was so fucking bad.

Tons of gimmick matches weekly to cover up the lack of roster depth and keep bad programs going.

WCW main event scene was pretty awful, More unwatchable than WWF but their undercard was pretty great.

Jericho, Mysterio, Benoit, Malenko, Juvy and some other Luchas (Super Calo, Lizmark Jr., La Parka, Silver King, Psicosis, etc), Kidman, Eddie. And they always put them on during notorious down quarter hours so they were given time to have fun matches when no one was paying attention.

In the upper mid card area, DDP could work a little bit and got some good matches under his belt in 98/99. Randy fell off the damn map by mid 98 (he was already a shell of his former self)...but he had his last good run with DDP in late 97.

Yes, the undercard in WWF was awful up until Jericho/Benoit/Malenko/Saturn/Guerrero made the jump over. Until then, you had a good group of tag teams, none of which were really established as singles performers, with the upper mid card saved only by the fact that there wasn't always room for some of the guys to be in the main event scene.

I think the Hardcore championship came about as a way to combat it.....truly gimmicky at times and that was also a reason they continually swapped the belts to different guys.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Yes, the undercard in WWF was awful up until Jericho/Benoit/Malenko/Saturn/Guerrero made the jump over. Until then, you had a good group of tag teams, none of which were really established as singles performers, with the upper mid card saved only by the fact that there wasn't always room for some of the guys to be in the main event scene.

I think the Hardcore championship came about as a way to combat it.....truly gimmicky at times and that was also a reason they continually swapped the belts to different guys.

Hardcore Title was a truly awful gimmick. I never liked it. Never got into it. Was shit and it never got anybody over.

Looking through the list of champions...yup...never got a single guy over.

Maybe, in an alternate universe, if you kept the title on RVD or Raven or Al Snow...a former ECW guy that came over on the tail end of the Monday Night Wars or even after it and had the title for a while and had a string of defenses.

Instead, it was a gimmick title given to Foley and it never stopped being a joke championship, eventually leading to its awful gimmick stipulations that just made for really bad segments and transitions in the TV show.

Everyone that was involved with it, was seen as a joke at the time. And one of the major reasons the WWE mid-card was so bad at the time was because the mid-carders were always seen as a joke. Never given anything productive to do.

[Warner2BruceTD]

So, I guess word on the street is that Solomon Crowe debuted, but didn't debut as a hacker or Adam Rose's DJ...he just debuted as Sami Callihan.

Whoa, whoa, whoa....two guys named SAMI?

How will the fans ever be able to tell them apart? This is going to be so confusing. Like when Shane Helms debuted, I was all like, wait, is that Shane McMahon? Then they changed it to Gregory and I had a much easier time.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Continuing my rant...

The tag teams were shit in 98-99. Godwins...LOD2000...The Nation of Domination...this was also Owen's "NUGGET" era, awful...possibly Foley's worst in-ring run was during this period...Kane was always a featured player.

Seriously, if anyone sees me fall into that wormhole...get me the fuck out.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Whoa, whoa, whoa....two guys named SAMI?

How will the fans ever be able to tell them apart? This is going to be so confusing. Like when Shane Helms debuted, I was all like, wait, is that Shane McMahon? Then they changed it to Gregory and I had a much easier time.

No...still was Solomon Crowe, just didn't have a gimmick...he was just ol Cannonball Sami.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

It fascinates me that they aren't putting Cena in the main event of Mania...beyond Bryan, who should be, too...Cena is their go-to...main evented the last two that popped over a million buys...why Cena isn't in the main event and they insert Orton and Batista...silly.

Cena-Bryan II should be the main event. Biggest draw v. hot, most over face.

[JimLeavy59]

[Warner2BruceTD]

WWE has signed Drake Younger.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

WWE has signed Drake Younger.

Awesome news.

He has become a nice worker. Not quite a Generico level babyface in the way he garners babyface sympathy...but one of the top guys on the Indys right now in that regard.

Also, a guy in desperate need of a name change. Can't get much worse than DRAKE YOUNGER.

At bare minimum, he is a great enhancement talent for heels.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Awesome news.

He has become a nice worker. Not quite a Generico level babyface in the way he garners babyface sympathy...but one of the top guys on the Indys right now in that regard.

Also, a guy in desperate need of a name change. Can't get much worse than DRAKE YOUNGER.

At bare minimum, he is a great enhancement talent for heels.

The word going around is Regal really liked him when he went to that PWG show as a fan last year. Ricochet too so they seem to listen to Regal when it comes to his suggestions for getting guys looked at. Devitt is another one.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

The word going around is Regal really liked him when he went to that PWG show as a fan last year. Ricochet too so they seem to listen to Regal when it comes to his suggestions for getting guys looked at. Devitt is another one.

I believe Regal was there for his match against Adam Cole. Younger that weekend was fantastic. Also had a great match with Sami Callihan on Night 1.

Regal is loving what he does now.