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  • Warner2BruceTD
    2011 Poster Of The Year
    • Mar 2009
    • 26142

    Originally posted by LiquidLarry2GhostWF
    1997-2001 also had more stars at one time than the business has ever seen...but, let's give credit to Steve Austin, who, even though he was missing or dabbling in the mid-card for a year smack dab in the middle of it, ratings didn't dip...lets ignore all of the milestones of the WWF's resurgence that didn't even feature Steve Austin...let's ignore and any all ground work WCW did to even allow for the boom in business before Austin even got hot...

    As for Austin being the biggest merch pusher...lets not forget the WWE has never created MORE merch than for this guy...he had a new shirt every month lololol.

    I'm not downplaying his impact...sadly, you are too dumb in this conversation to understand it while reguritate your WWE DVD level education...you are downplaying the impact of everything before it and the players of the same era, that maintained the same, AND HIGHER buyrates and ratings in Austin's absence as well as major business in another company...but you can continue with that idea that Austin popped the market share of wrestling all by himself.
    Now you are making up strawman arguments. I never said he did it all by himself, but he was clearly the biggest star. That is my point. He was the biggest star. And frankly, you can't beat that point with facts. You just can't.

    And Austin was gone for 8 months. Let's not act like he was gone for years. And he still had a TV presence as part of a major storyline. So i'm supposed to believe that WWE maintaining momentum (that Austin created!) for eight fucking months somehow discredits Austin? gtfo with that low level shit. And when he came back, he was right back in the driver's seat, and didn't miss a beat.

    And your point about WWE havnig more Austin merch to that point than anybody else is ridiculously stupid. Even if it's true, which I dont know that it is because i dont even know what that means, who cares? He generated more revenue through merch than anybody ever. End of story.

    You can keep calling me dumb if you like, but the numbers don't lie. He drew the most money, and the WWE was in the fucking shitter before his push. He was the king on PPV, on TV, and in the arenas. He was the biggest star and was the catalyst for the biggest boom.



    Keep pretending wrestling was "getting the ball rolling" before Austin. WCW was doing OK, and WWE was in its darkest days and DYING. Why was WWE practically out of business with all of these hot stars you keep crediting? Austin's big push comes along, and buries everything WCW ever did to that point, crushed them on TV and never looked back (aside from one week where Goldberg popped a rating). And then look at the heights the ratings reached during the Austin peak. Not to mention PPV, where Austin is the undisputed king, something you wont even argue. Also, look at the ratings DIP when Austin is hurt, lol.

    Larry, what exactly is your argument? Because if its that Austin was not the biggest star, you can't win that one. Good job, good effort, but its unwinnable.

    Comment

    • JayDizzle
      Let's Go All The Way...
      • Nov 2008
      • 14215

      lol at Vince not being able to spring for a game banner that doesn't STILL have a "rating pending" sticker on it.

      Comment

      • Warner2BruceTD
        2011 Poster Of The Year
        • Mar 2009
        • 26142

        Originally posted by LiquidLarry2GhostWF
        Because you equate the size of marketshare of the business soley to Austin and that is just straight up false...even more silly when considering how many other stars were in the business at the time.

        Equate Austin to biggest house show draw while Rock is on the same card? Yeah, makes a whole lot of sense.

        Biggest PPV Draw of All-Time? Right now? Probably The Rock. Headlined every WrestleMania Austin was in that did big business...was the featured match with Hogan in Toronto...was the featured guy for Cena-Rock (highest grossing WWE PPV EVA).

        Who drew the highest ratings on TV...depends...Austin, Rock, Triple H. All depends on the time you want to focus on. All had the ball during the period and had huge ratings.

        Equate Austin to being the reason 10M+ eyes are on wrestling when half are on another company? Yeah, makes a whole lot of sense.

        Who was the top star and main eventer...top star was given to numerous guys throughout the time period (nWo, Sting, Goldberg, Austin, Rock, Triple H) we are talking about and main event was divided up even more! Yeah, makes sense.

        Whose push catapulted WWE past WCW for good...Mick Foley, actually.

        You are running out of bullets here, hermano...
        Again, you are arguing with a strawman.

        I am not giving Austin ALL of the credit. I am saying Austin was the biggest star & biggest draw.

        Austin vs Rock at WM - 1,040,000 buys

        Hogan vs Rock at WM - 800,000 buys

        And lol @ bringing up Rock/Cena a decade later in a different era with a different drawing dynamic. Please stop.

        Comment

        • JimLeavy59
          War Hero
          • May 2012
          • 7199

          Boy I really want to buy the next ppv... not.

          Comment

          • JayDizzle
            Let's Go All The Way...
            • Nov 2008
            • 14215

            Hmm.

            Punk/Rhodes/Sandow/Miz/Del Rio for Team Punk.

            Aside from Sandow (and I think they fought in OVW), all the dudes in the ring have held a knife to Punk's throat at one point.

            Better to have the guys who you know can make their opponent eat shit all damn day, I suppose.

            Comment

            • JayDizzle
              Let's Go All The Way...
              • Nov 2008
              • 14215

              Foley's got...

              Himself/Kofi/Kane/Danielson/Orton

              So we got Miz's kryptonite, the Tag Champs (a fucking Coup), Orton... who while sucky, has made his bones at Survivor Series.

              ...and OF COURSE Foley isn't gonna fight.

              Fucking Ryback.

              NO BUYS? Probably.

              Comment

              • JimLeavy59
                War Hero
                • May 2012
                • 7199

                Crowd is dead lol.

                Comment

                • JayDizzle
                  Let's Go All The Way...
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 14215

                  $5 says Heyman dumps Punk soon for Ryback.

                  Comment

                  • krulmichael
                    STRAAAAANGE MUSIC!
                    • Feb 2009
                    • 10721

                    Man that Goldberg chant was the loudest chant of the night. Best thing about this Raw is that it's finally over. Wow that was terrible.

                    Twitch Channel
                    http://www.twitch.tv/krulmichael20


                    Season I: 10-6 (NFC North Champions)
                    Season II: 9-7 (NFC North Champions)
                    Season III: 13-3 (NFC Champions)
                    Season IV: 11-5 (NFC North Champions)
                    Season V: 2-1

                    Comment

                    • SuperKevin
                      War Hero
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 8759

                      Way to ruin that matchup for me WWE.

                      Comment

                      • JimLeavy59
                        War Hero
                        • May 2012
                        • 7199

                        And those "Feed me more" chants were obviously piped in.

                        Comment

                        • s@ppisgod
                          No longer a noob
                          • Apr 2011
                          • 1032

                          Clearly piped in "feed me more" chants followed by complete silence, and ending with crystal clear "Goldberg" chants from the crowd. Vince has got to be pissed.

                          Comment

                          • Warner2BruceTD
                            2011 Poster Of The Year
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 26142

                            Also, WWE PPV hit the bottom in 1996, started to climb late 1997, peaked in 1999, and then tumbled badly in 2002. PPV business didn't pick back up until 2006.

                            Austin's push started in late 1997, he peaked in popularity in 1999, and he retired after WrestleMania in 2002.

                            LOL. You can't make this stuff up.

                            Comment

                            • LiquidLarry2GhostWF
                              Highwayman
                              • Feb 2009
                              • 15429

                              Originally posted by Warner2BruceTD
                              Now you are making up strawman arguments. I never said he did it all by himself, but he was clearly the biggest star. That is my point. He was the biggest star. And frankly, you can't beat that point with facts. You just can't.

                              And Austin was gone for 8 months. Let's not act like he was gone for years. And he still had a TV presence as part of a major storyline. So i'm supposed to believe that WWE maintaining momentum (that Austin created!) for eight fucking months somehow discredits Austin? gtfo with that low level shit. And when he came back, he was right back in the driver's seat, and didn't miss a beat.

                              And your point about WWE havnig more Austin merch to that point than anybody else is ridiculously stupid. Even if it's true, which I dont know that it is because i dont even know what that means, who cares? He generated more revenue through merch than anybody ever. End of story.

                              You can keep calling me dumb if you like, but the numbers don't lie. He drew the most money, and the WWE was in the fucking shitter before his push. He was the king on PPV, on TV, and in the arenas. He was the biggest star and was the catalyst for the biggest boom.



                              Keep pretending wrestling was "getting the ball rolling" before Austin. WCW was doing OK, and WWE was in its darkest days and DYING. Why was WWE practically out of business with all of these hot stars you keep crediting? Austin's big push comes along, and buries everything WCW ever did to that point, crushed them on TV and never looked back (aside from one week where Goldberg popped a rating). And then look at the heights the ratings reached during the Austin peak. Not to mention PPV, where Austin is the undisputed king, something you wont even argue. Also, look at the ratings DIP when Austin is hurt, lol.

                              Larry, what exactly is your argument? Because if its that Austin was not the biggest star, you can't win that one. Good job, good effort, but its unwinnable.
                              It was...In 95, ratings were in the 2's for both companies. By the end of 1997, WCW was in the high 4s and WWF was in the high 3's rating wise...that graph does nothing but PROVE my point. Thanks for that. You can say "pretending" all you want, but the business was already bouncing back from its low point. LOL @ "WCW was doing ok"...it was doing their biggest and best business! WWF was dying, but was slowly bouncing back due to an increased interest in wrestling as a whole. SummerSlam and Survivor Series in 1997 already started to show a bounce back in buyrates. WCW did their biggest PPV ever. Stop talking out your ass.

                              Unfortunately, if you look at the detail...WWF didn't overtake Nitro for good until the fall...Rock and Mick Foley were trading the title at the top. Austin was with Undertaker. But good work. The RAW after WrestleMania XIV...Nitro actually beat it. In subsequent weeks, wrestling gained an extra full point in ratings...both WCW and WWF were popping high ratings. They would trade weeks and hours throughout the summer and fall. It wasn't until Mick Foley won the title at the start of 1999 that RAW would put Nitro away for good. They didn't lose another hour.

                              As for Austin being a PPV King...I already said The Rock has probably overtaken him as a PPV King at this point. As for your "ratings dip" comment...I'm at least glad to know you don't know how to read a graph.

                              Comment

                              • LiquidLarry2GhostWF
                                Highwayman
                                • Feb 2009
                                • 15429

                                Originally posted by Warner2BruceTD
                                Again, you are arguing with a strawman.

                                I am not giving Austin ALL of the credit. I am saying Austin was the biggest star & biggest draw.

                                Austin vs Rock at WM - 1,040,000 buys

                                Hogan vs Rock at WM - 800,000 buys

                                And lol @ bringing up Rock/Cena a decade later in a different era with a different drawing dynamic. Please stop.
                                Hogan v. Rock was already a different drawing dynamic...business changed after WCW/WWF merger, including that X-7 buyrate pop which came on the heels of the biggest thing to happen in wrestling ever.

                                You really are getting a solid beat down in this argument.

                                I suggest you tap.

                                Comment

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