The General Wrestling Thread

[EmpireWF]

Orton retained so Cena is fired.

Hopefully they at least try to work with it and don't bring him back in a week or two. Have him gone for a couple months, have people chanting for him. Have vignettes of Cena training, perhaps film him working at house shows and shit trying to make it like he's still busting his ass to get back to WWE, etc.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I went to Survivor Series last night...the overall experience was nice. Has suite seats in the Dewar's Lounge...best seats I've ever had at a WWE show...was sitting right behind the production crew behind the hard camera. Was cool to see it happen. For a "live show" everything went extremely smooth...even if there was a lighting issue, no panic by anybody...its impressive how the WWE works from a production standpoint. They are bad with piping in cheers and whatnot though, its rather obvious.

As for the show...

- The most underrated performer in the WWE is John Morrison...I now know why he is a face (kids love him and he is simply likable, even though his best character is probably as a heel). The only thing he lacks has been the opportunity to have big, memorable matches and substantial feuds. Is this thing with Sheamus a substantial feud, no...but, it is giving him the opportunity to perform with a guy the E sees as a legitimate heavyweight champion. The guy sells like no other in the E (sans maybe, Danielson). He was selling the leg hard against Sheamus and was hitting his spots one legged (dude did a spring board on one leg!). I'm with W2BTD with this guy...he's underrated. He's a good worker...he just needs a memorable match. I'm not sure how it came off on TV, but Morrison pulled Sheamus through a strong match.

-The two guys that immediately make you sit on your hands or take a bathroom break are Ted Dibiase and Drew McIntyre...literally, no one gives a fuck about them. No reaction from each.

- Danielson gets a strong pop. It isn't CM Punk level love, but he gets a strong pop and I think he had a nice opener against DiBiase, who sucks. I think the WWE did some strong work on the under card pairing strong workers with not-so-strong workers, and the results were pretty good. Live, I did enjoy some of the under card matches.

- I'll tell you what, I know he is not a W2B fave...but I think a strong mid-card heel is Dolph Ziggler. Yeah, he works a slow-ish WWE style...but I feel he does it or can do it better than most...I think he is capable of being a staple in the mid-card. Natural heel charisma, good look, I think he is a better than advertised worker, and people love to boo the fuck out of him (along with Nexus, more on that later). "Creative" must be kicking themselves for giving him such a shitty name. The match with Kaval was sloppy, but it wasn't terrible, and I can see how some would think it was good. It was just sloppy with some sloppy spots, but it kept eyes glued. So, I guess it worked.

- The traditional Survivor Series match was fun...it wasn't great, but it was fun. Sadly, I would have expected Alberto Del Rio to get a big pop down here in Miami, but alas, no...I don't think the old hispanics realize he is Dos Caras Jr. who they loved when they watch Lucha Libre (and they do down here, a lot). If they did, I think he'd get a better reaction.

-The most natural pop of the night, and maybe one of the biggest was actually MVP when they announced he was from Miami. Just a nice, natural, roar of the crowd with a lot of U's thrown up. Awful booking having him lose first...he should have been there toward the end, because the crowd ate him up.

- The Big Show got a huge pop too, and Mysterio is so over with the kids, its silly...I think its a combination of the mask, his flippidy do da stuff, and the fact he is short as fuck that he relates to kids. Saw and met Big Show on Friday, at the Heat game actually, to which I, in a while collared shirt said to him "This...This is Andre's!"...the fact that he got the reference and laughed his ass off makes me a huge mark for Big Show right now.

- The last four matches (Divas - bathroom break...Edge/Kane...Tag Title...Barrett/Orton) were absolute shit and sullied my evening...

- First off...having the Miz come out for a promo at the beginning of the show basically told you he was NOT cashing it in TONIGHT...that sucked and was poorly booked. Most people thought he was going to make a run in tonight and to take the wind out of the sail early sucked. The promo was amazing...and got huge heat...but it was done at the wrong time.

- Divas match...I went to the bathroom and came back just as Natalya put on the Sharpshooter...I think Beth Phoenix got new tits in her time off?

- Edge has to be the worst main eventer in regards to match quality that is actually capable of better than I can remember. Edge has been heel-to-face and face-to-heel so many times, I can't get behind him. I want to like Edge, but I just can't right now. He is always giving shitty matches with junk story. I mean, I know its Kane and they threw this together like 2 weeks ago...but, damn...turrible. Edge is at the bottom of the guys I'd want to see list.

-Tag match...sucked. I mean, can you say much else?

- Barrett v. Orton...talk about a poor non-payoff...holy shit...brutal. I went to this show for the sole purpose of seeing Barrett win and even if he didn't win, see something significant (whether it was Miz for the run in, or some great Cena/Barrett confrontation). I got basically, the worst possible outcome for this show. I very dull match, with little to no interaction with Cena (Cena needed to be a real conflicted character in this match and needed to be a chief character, and was generally, secondary in regards to how they sold the psychology of the match). The whole push-push-RKO was turrible. It was just sloppily done with no payoff.

[FedEx227]

They basically (in the main event) picked the one scenario that has absolutely zero interest because nobody in the world believes he's actually retiring.

They seriously have no balls when it pertains to ever messing with the Cena character. It's amazing.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Good post, larry.

Morrison could be the next HBK if he could learn how to promo, but I think that's a lost cause.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

He's not an inept promo guy...he just isn't impactful nor memorable. However, in this era of wrestling, you can't get on a guy too much if he simply can't make the WWE's scripts to another level.

I really want to see him take at least his match quality to another level as well...I think, as you once mentioned, he doesn't have a bad, ever...and you know what, I don't think he does...but he hasn't even had an HBK v. Tatanka level match yet (although, maybe the match v. Sheamus came close...Live...it was a good match and Morrison worked it hard)...

I really want to see Morrison do well...I think HBK is setting the goal really high, but I think he can be a strong regular in the upper-mid card as both a face or heel.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Good post, larry.

Morrison could be the next HBK if he could learn how to promo, but I think that's a lost cause.

Discuss Ziggler with me.

I know you hate those of his ilk, but he is a bit different to me.

A solid mid-card heel that is capable of more than simply the paint-by-numbers heel match. I think he is ok.

[SHOGUN]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAECG3zw46c&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGhqawWKtHo&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

[Warner2BruceTD]

Discuss Ziggler with me.

I know you hate those of his ilk, but he is a bit different to me.

A solid mid-card heel that is capable of more than simply the paint-by-numbers heel match. I think he is ok.

"Leverage manuevers"

I think he has good matches with the right people. Danielson for one, but if you can't have a good match with Danielson, you're hopeles. When he's with other guys who learned in "the system", it can be hard to watch. He had bad matches with Punk too, but Punk is a guy who has stinkers with certain people for whatever reason (Elijah Burke comes to mind).

I watched old school RAW last night, and for some reason I really enjoyed Ziggler/Henry. Odd. It had a great finish.

I can come around on Ziggler, I just haven't yet. We'll see.

[Warner2BruceTD]

He's not an inept promo guy...he just isn't impactful nor memorable. However, in this era of wrestling, you can't get on a guy too much if he simply can't make the WWE's scripts to another level.

I really want to see him take at least his match quality to another level as well...I think, as you once mentioned, he doesn't have a bad, ever...and you know what, I don't think he does...but he hasn't even had an HBK v. Tatanka level match yet (although, maybe the match v. Sheamus came close...Live...it was a good match and Morrison worked it hard)...

I really want to see Morrison do well...I think HBK is setting the goal really high, but I think he can be a strong regular in the upper-mid card as both a face or heel.

His best singles matches were against Punk on ECW. They ranged from very good to great.

He's had tons of awesome tag matches with both MNM and Miz.

I think he's the worst promo on the roster when he's a smiling babyface. He was better off doing the psychodelic heel gimmick, where his delivery was much better, and it better suits his personality.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I've also come to this conclusion after last night...I like watching wrestling with kids.

When I went to WrestleMania, I was sitting with wrestling GenPop in Orlando...the company I kept was WOAT...some real mutants and those that have showering as a bi-weekly optional task. I am sure W2B knows the types of talking about...ECW had a good number of them, but I was younger and was less judgmental at the time. Plus, they were some cool guys for the most part. At WWE shows, you get some bottom of the food chain types.

In the suite, basically, was sitting with exec types and their kids...the kids are fun as hell at wrestling shows. When I go to a WWE show, I don't go to see ECW or ROH shit...where I sit down and watch some amazing matches...I go to have fun and mark out a bit and be a bit obnoxious...with kids, its awesome and you can mark out a bit with them. The commentary with kids is awesome, too. Had some comical discussions with kids regarding Cena dn Mysterio.

[EmpireWF]

Morrison will never get higher on the card then where he is now because he's awful on the mic. Boring as fuck. He's fine at everything else (ring work, look, whatever else) but he just oozes scripted crap he doesn't believe in. As a face, I can't stand him.

Ziggler reminds me SLIGHTLY of Perfect with the crazy bumps he takes sometimes.

Larry, I went to the G.A. Bash when it was in Long Island a couple years back (the one with HHH/Edge, Cena/JBL)....HOLY SHIT there must have been thousands of little kids, all wearing Cena gear. It was insane.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Wrestling GenPop

Larry coined a new term

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Wrestling GenPop

Larry coined a new term

You know the types I'm talking about.

Bottom of the food chain, for sure. Lots of them at Indy shows and lots of them at WWE shows.

I'm not talking about your handicapped guy or kid...there are lots of those and those, I don't mind...I mean, I understand, but the real mutant's of society that congregate at wrestling shows.

[Warner2BruceTD]

You know the types I'm talking about.

Bottom of the food chain, for sure. Lots of them at Indy shows and lots of them at WWE shows.

I'm not talking about your handicapped guy or kid...there are lots of those and those, I don't mind...I mean, I understand, but the real mutant's of society that congregate at wrestling shows.

Wrestling definately draws the mouth breathers. Its a culture Vince largely cultivated, and now fights tooth and nail due to the low ad rates that come his way. Wrestling was a suit and tie crowd many decades ago. It wouldn't have stayed that way, but its now the polar opposite.

[Bigpapa42]

Have to agree that Morrison is able to cut some decent (at least passable) promos as a heel, but they just don't work as a face.