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How much?Comment
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they are still working on that think the 15th is the deadline I pitched a pretty low numberComment
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So, I was re-watching (2nd or 3rd time I've caught it) the WWE DVD release of "The Spectacular Legacy of the AWA"...the nearly 2h documentary is actually one of the E's best. A really solid look at the AWA as a whole. They bring in a lot of nerdy wrestling historians and get a lot of solid commentary from a plethora of guys with the company and outside the company. Pretty candid at times to, as Vern Gagne never pulls punches when talking about Vince Jr.
Anyway, some random AWA thoughts that I don't think any of us ever discussed (mostly because most of ya'll have only watched AWA on ESPN in all its horrible awesomeness.
- If there was ever a predominant pre-80's wrestler that I think was PERFECT for wrestling today, it'd be Nick Bockwinkel. In-ring, on the mic, the charisma...guy would really fit in well in this era of wrestling, I think. I think W2B would love the guy. He stood out in an era and territory that doesn't hold up at all. He's that one guy that does, IMO.
- I've always been impressed by Gagne mind for wrestling and think its a bit underrated and undervalued by the commentary on the DVD. They go so far as bashing him and saying the industry passed him by. I mean, to an extent, yes, it did. However, after Vince Jr. ransacked the AWA the first time around...Gagne, unlike any other territory or wrestling promotion, was able to bounce back and restock the roster. I can't recall of another territory or promotion being able to do that after Vince pillaged the roster once.
After he lost Hogan, Jesse Ventura, Bobby Heenan, et al...yes, there was a down period, and the AWA on ESPN era was fucking awful, even with all of the talent that he restocked the company with (regardless of intentions by the talent) after the down period...but he ended up restocking the company with solid performers and future stars. Curt Hennig, The Rockers, Scott Hall, The Road Warriors, Vader, and women like Sherri Martel and Madusa. That's pretty impressive and I can't say any other company would rebound with talent like that after a Vince talent purge.
- Gagne though, burned every time he gave the belt to someone not in his circle or when the AWA's biggest star wasn't him. Hogan, Stan Hansen, Jerry Lawler...its funny that Lawler still has the AWA title sitting at his house because he didn't receive payment for SuperClash.
- Vince is always so "oh shucks" in every DVD released once they get to him stealing talent from other companies. I think they just re-hash the same interview over and over again. Its the same song and dance.
"I don't recall the details but..."
"I always tell performers to finish out their dates before they came to me..."
"I don't remember, but that's not how I did things..."
and then would go on to say
"Well, I don't think the promoters realized they now had competition because they never had it before..."
Yet, every single story is the same, not just in the AWA, but in every other promotion he's talked about. Once Vince got a little big and he started to break through nationally, he'd pillage talent from every promotion and very few of the performers would finish their commitments. They'd just randomly call or get a call from the old promotion and told them they were going to the WWF and that's it...95% of the performers did as such. Its obvious that Vince paid them not to finish them out.
I just wish Vince would admit to being rather cold blooded about it...because he was, and its ok...he made wrestling more successful and lucrative because of it and I have no problem with him wiping the territories off the face of the earth because that's how business should work.
- Toward the end of territory era of wrestling, the promoters had to be some of the most antiquated folks in any business, all-time. They couldn't work together to save their lives...literally.Comment
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Bockwinkle is a great man. Im a gigantic fan.
And that doc is pretty awesome.Comment
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How sad it is that the WWE can put together a better, less revisionist documentary on the AWA than on ECW or WCW? The stuff they've done on WCW so far has been weak and really limited.
Second time I've seen Bockwinkel's name come up in a discussion in as many days (other one was another forum). Really underrated guy. Great heel work. I haven't seen as much of him as I'd like, but some of the heel stuff he did could still work today but doesn't really seem to be done that much.Comment
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I dug the ECW documentary. Was good.
Jericho took a shit load of Bockwinkel's traits and mannerisms during his last WWE run toward the end. In his documentary he said he was going for more of an Anton Chigurh, but he was clearly biting his entire final title run around Nick Bockwinkel.
Bockwinkel and Flair in the late 70s and into the 80s had that professional heel look down to a damn artform...Flair was the high flying playboy and Bockwinkel was the pure businessman.
Was a different era of wrestling, where nearly every other wrestler was either the good ol hometown boy or was a piece of sloppy shit or uber awkward looking psycho heel but Bockwinkel was on another level. That guy would get booed out of a fuckin city they hated his ass so much.
Bockwinkel's old ass could still cut a promo better than 95% of wrestling.
Alberto Del Rio should go take the next year off, go to FCW, watch hundreds of hours of Nick Bockwinkel, try some of that shit out in front of an FCW crowd of 65 and come back and try that out in the WWE. He might actually get over.Comment
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Oh, and is it just me or is Michael PS Hayes in every fucking WWE Documentary.
Is there one where his two cents AREN'T in it?Comment
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I'd have to rewatch the ECW one. Haven't seen it in awhile. Just remember watching it and feel that it was good but could have been more. The WCW one was the worst. Just glossed over so fucking much.
Bockwinkel was just great at antagonizing a crowd. Recall one Bockwinkel match I watched (might be on the AWA DVD...?) where he spent the first several minutes of a match avoiding the babyface, stalling outside the ring, and riling up the fans. By the time they finally got going, the fans were rabid. I don't get why heels won't do a lot of that anymore. Its like everyone became worried about "looking weak" by stalling and shit.Comment
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I cringe every time anything WCW is brought up in WWE, and that Rise and Fall DVD was pretty awful. Vince still has sore feelings about them that hinder him acknowledging them at all in a positive light. The ECW one was good though. I think he gave them less cues on what to cover, and let the interviewees go more. Where as you had many former WCW guys basically reading Vince's notes on WCW.Comment
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Biss makes a damn good point...
In the E and I guess wrestling on TV in general, you gotta go in, get your stuff in, and get out so they can get the next guy in.
The first 5 minutes of a match where the heel would try and get the crowd going is a thing of that past in the format they are currently in. A shame. But it is, what it is.Comment
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True enough on the issue with TV and hitting those marks. But they could do it on house shows - they fill those with enough crap - and on PPV matches where time constraints aren't always as tight. Its not something they should doing all the time, with every heel. But you want to get one guy over as the bad guy, getting someone like The Miz or Alberto Del Rio to put in some cowardly heel work could do wonders.Comment
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I would not encourage stalling, because there would be far too many Larry Zbyszko's and far too few Bockwinkle's.
Nick Bockwinkle was just a complete pro wrestler in every way, and like Larry said, probably the best of the "stuck up" i'm-better-than-you erudite heels. Fans hated him because he was smarter and classier than them. It hit home.Comment
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Another good point. It would have to be done right or it just looks weak and annoys rather than draws real heat.
Okay, I'll drop my dream of bringing back 1987 pro wrestling style.
I'm going home and watching some more of my Best of the 80s New Japan set. Fuck Raw.Comment
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