The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

This is the same guy that got pissed when he saw Zack Ryder wearing a shirt about spiking his hair and said "SPIKE?! Are we promoting the network the other company is on?". Shit disappeared a few days later.

HOLY SHIT, I forgot about that one.

And the man is a MASSIVE success. It's really amazing.

[Derrville]

Ziggler said the spike thing or Ryder?

[EmpireWF]

Ziggler said the spike thing or Ryder?

Ryder's thing is 'take care, spike your hair'

[FedEx227]

Ryder had a shirt that said "Don't care spike your hair" or something and Vince blew his shit because he thought they were promoting THAT network that airs THAT promotion.

[FedEx227]

HOLY SHIT, I forgot about that one.

And the man is a MASSIVE success. It's really amazing.

The more and more I think about it he basically got lucky with Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold, The Rock and Mike Tyson.

[Derrville]

Oh haha

Pumped for Impact tonight in a real arena with real fans. TNA cant leave the impact zone soon enough.

[EmpireWF]

The more and more I think about it he basically got lucky with Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold, The Rock and Mike Tyson.

You could always have the chicken & egg type argument with Hogan and Austin. Did they make Vince or did he make them.

I won't say he got lucky with Rock or Tyson. Rock was always pegged as being a future superstar.....and Tyson, it cost him $3 mil to bring him in. There were people who felt it was a terrible move...lol.

[Warner2BruceTD]

You could always have the chicken & egg type argument with Hogan and Austin. Did they make Vince or did he make them.

I won't say he got lucky with Rock or Tyson. Rock was always pegged as being a future superstar.....and Tyson, it cost him $3 mil to bring him in. There were people who felt it was a terrible move...lol.

Hogan was an international star long before Vince lured him from Gagne. Vince pushed him to another level that I don't think Gagne would have been capable of, because only Vince had designs of going national. With that said, somebody was eventually going to split from the establishment, exploit cable, and make a go of it (Joe Blanchard actually tried it first, as a lot of people forget that he was on USA Network long before WWF).

Vince had no faith in Austin, to the point they hated his promos so much that they wouldn't let him talk. Austin largely made his own break by creating the Stone Cold character (basically because the office didn't care because he was just a mid carder), and cutting the 3:16 promo. But if you remember, it still took months for them to get behind him. Eventually, they had no choice, he got over on his own.

I will give them credit for The Rock, who they found (well, he came to them) and developed, but even with The Rock they misread the fans and tried to push him as a smiling cornball babyface. If he hadn't been persistent, he might have quit (think: Maven, Lashley for examples).

[dave]

'Dolph Ziggler' sounds like a 50's Nazi inspired heel, the kind of guy who would team with Fritz Von Erich and take all of the pins. Then he would go to a new terriory, drop the Nazi persona, and become "The Grappler" Billy Watson or something.

I think his name is one of the biggest things holding him back. It's time for a change.
Maybe he could go all bad-ass and off-script and tell the WWE types what to do with his slave name ... and come out with a new slave name.

[EmpireWF]

Hogan was an international star long before Vince lured him from Gagne. Vince pushed him to another level that I don't think Gagne would have been capable of, because only Vince had designs of going national. With that said, somebody was eventually going to split from the establishment, exploit cable, and make a go of it (Joe Blanchard actually tried it first, as a lot of people forget that he was on USA Network long before WWF).

Another interesting thing to debate is whether they would have gotten as hot as they did in the 80s if Hogan didn't have Piper to play off of.

[EmpireWF]

--On the most recent "Art of War" podcast, Colt Cabana and C.M. Punk did a segment where Punk confirmed that a 3-disc WWE retrospective of his career is in the works and he's in charge of the product, including the music, the matches and who he wants interviewed. He didn't say anything about whether any pre-WWE matches would be allowed to be part of it.

I wonder if it will include HHH talking about him being king of the indies or Tony Atlas telling him to take off the hand wraps.

[s@ppisgod]

Hogan was an international star long before Vince lured him from Gagne. Vince pushed him to another level that I don't think Gagne would have been capable of, because only Vince had designs of going national. With that said, somebody was eventually going to split from the establishment, exploit cable, and make a go of it (Joe Blanchard actually tried it first, as a lot of people forget that he was on USA Network long before WWF).

Vince had no faith in Austin, to the point they hated his promos so much that they wouldn't let him talk. Austin largely made his own break by creating the Stone Cold character (basically because the office didn't care because he was just a mid carder), and cutting the 3:16 promo. But if you remember, it still took months for them to get behind him. Eventually, they had no choice, he got over on his own.

I will give them credit for The Rock, who they found (well, he came to them) and developed, but even with The Rock they misread the fans and tried to push him as a smiling cornball babyface. If he hadn't been persistent, he might have quit (think: Maven, Lashley for examples).

All of that is true. Hogan was a star, and all Vince really gave him was a larger platform.

Austin was a crazy story. If WCW had any sense at all, they could have made him into a main eventer. The talk about how short the Hollywood Blondes run was, and yet how popular they got and how remembered they are is a testament to how talented they were. Then 4 short years later, they're closing out Raw in one of the most remembered angles ever. If WCW's top talent was willing to put anyone over, he could have been a main eventer. If ECW had any type of real financial backing, he could have become a big thing there. Or if they had realized how they work, and not featured him so prominently, they could have kept him longer. Then he FINALLY ends up falling in the WWF's lap, and they STILL almost fumble the whole thing away with the Million Dollar Belt and a god-awful gimmick. Then he makes himself a star, and they reap all the benefits.

The Rock I agree again. They gave him a big initial push, despite him not really having any gimmick or direction. It eventually went south, but they struc while the iron was hot with a heel turn. His charisma put him well over the top, which I don't think the WWF really had much to do with. But they played it smart with him. It wasn't something where they basically gave up on him ala Stone Cold. They worked around the crowd reaction, and he became a star. That's hardly ever as easy as it seems, so they deserve credit there.

As for Tyson, I don't think he was really a risk. I mean, it was Tyson in the 90's. Who cares how much money they spent? They were still in questionable waters, but you can't really change the tide of business playing it safe. Tyson was WELL worth the investment in making the WWF a mainstream name again and getting all the media coverage that comes along with Tyson in a wrestling ring. I mean, it's simple risk/reward. Best case scenario: Tyson comes in, does what he's told, carries out a storyline, and brings big press to the main event. Worst case scenario: Tyson goes Tyson and fucks up the deal with some insane stunt or action or says something crazy. And then you get ungodly amounts of press and buzz. It's win-win. It's the same as if you brought Charlie Sheen in last year. Either it goes off without a hitch and brings a lot of buzz or it goes terribly bad and it brings a lot of buzz.

[s@ppisgod]

I can definitely see McMahon having no idea he was calling himself "#HEEL" for weeks...then one day, he's in the gorilla position and he just happens to be watching this match and catches a glace at his tights.

Three weeks later, he catches Ziggler walking around backstage calls him over...

"Does that say HEEL on your tights?"
"Yeah."
"We got to get rid of that."
"Vince, I've been using these tights for the past month and a half...hell, my Twitter name is HEELZiggler...I thought it'd be cool since I'm always a bad guy and all"
"We got to get rid of that...why don't you try 'THE SHOW MAN!!'"
"Vince, that's awful."

You really expect me to believe Vince went something like a month without looking at Ziggler's ass? I understand he's less involved these days, but come on. Next you'll be telling me he went 2 months without longingly gazing at Dave Batista's package in 2007. That dog won't hunt, monsignor.

[SHOGUN]

@ what just happened on IMPACT.

The crowd gave the hometown kid Haskins no love when he faced Austin Aries. It was nothing but Aries chants the entire match. Then Haskins completely botched the Shooting Star Press, almost breaking his neck a la Brock Lesnar and knocking himself silly.

TNA actually feels like a legitimate wrestling company tonight. The Wembly Arena crowd is rocking and has a PPV feel to it.

[Warner2BruceTD]

@ what just happened on IMPACT.

The crowd gave the hometown kid Haskins no love when he faced Austin Aries. It was nothing but Aries chants the entire match. Then Haskins completely botched the Shooting Star Press, almost breaking his neck a la Brock Lesnar and knocking himself silly.

TNA actually feels like a legitimate wrestling company tonight. The Wembly Arena crowd is rocking and has a PPV feel to it.

Was Haskins the guy who bombed on the PPV a few months back against Doug Williams? Or was that Robbie Brookside?