The General Wrestling Thread

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I can't even tell if that thing is supposed to be tongue in cheek, serious, or a combo of both.

For example, what is happening here?:

Orton is a physical freak. I'm not just talking about how he looks. It's what he does. I know: Wrestling is a fake sport. But wrestling fans love real athletes — Brock Lesnar's MMA run, Mark Henry's strongman championships, Haku's bar fights. Orton's athleticism ranks with the best of them. Just look at his RKO — it's a thing of beauty. A midair RKO against a flipping Evan Bourne doesn't just perform itself. The swaggering ease with which he tosses his opponents across the middle rope for the hangman DDT is really something. Literally every time he does his snap scoop powerslam I wonder how he pulled it off. That superplex he did to Daniel Bryan on Monday? That might have been the most beautiful superplex ever. Look how Orton climbs the ropes in the corner and balances effortlessly, extends Bryan to the highest point possible, and then bends his knees to cradle Bryan backward onto the mat. If he has underachieved — if he still does at times — that doesn't disqualify his physical abilities from being next-level. We should talk about Orton the way sports fans talk about Jabari Parker or Jadeveon Clowney. He can do things nobody else can. In fact, one of the weird tics about Orton is that he was obsessed with doing crazy aerial maneuvers early in his career, but Arn Anderson told him to stop because he didn't need those moves to get over. Arn was right — he doesn't. But the fact that he can do them? Wow.

I think he's being sarcastic, but then at the end i'm not so sure.

Is this satire, or what?

Shoemaker has fully realized his terribleness.

Seriously, no fucks are given about Randy Orton. He doesn't move the needle (actually, scratch that...he moves the needle backward)...he isn't an upper echelon anything. He's a JAG. If Shoemaker wants to give him an NFL player comparison...perhaps DeAngelo Hall would be better. Has sucked for ages, but he is still...somehow...a starter.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Shoemaker has fully realized his terribleness.

Seriously, no fucks are given about Randy Orton. He doesn't move the needle (actually, scratch that...he moves the needle backward)...he isn't an upper echelon anything. He's a JAG. If Shoemaker wants to give him an NFL player comparison...perhaps DeAngelo Hall would be better. Has sucked for ages, but he is still...somehow...a starter.

[JayDizzle]

Funches and Fandango?

Sign me up.

[Ravin]

Don't know why, but AJ with her glasses on

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

That looks like the worst Survivor Series buy number ever. Didn't The Rock and Cena NEVER BEFORE...NEVER AGAIN tag match against The fuckin Miz and R-Truth do nearly 300K? And that shit was like two years ago.

Is it possible that Daniel Bryan's ascension to super stardom was derailed by Randy fuckin Orton? Seriously...Bryan is the most over guy in front of a live crowd EVERY.WHERE. I have a hard time believing that it translates to losing buyers. Unfortunately, he was working with a guy that moves the needle backward like very few others in history.

Like I said, no one gives an iota of a fuck about Randy Orton. They never will. Ever.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Bryan's popularity will translate to buys eventually. Even Stone Cold took like 7 months to seriously draw. People think he was an instant success, but he wasn't. It took some time.

To me the bad Survivor Series number is a feather in Bryan's cap in the sense that Big Show did even worse. And you're right, nobody gives a single fuck about Orton. Or The Authority angle.

[FedEx227]

That looks like the worst Survivor Series buy number ever. Didn't The Rock and Cena NEVER BEFORE...NEVER AGAIN tag match against The fuckin Miz and R-Truth do nearly 300K? And that shit was like two years ago.

Is it possible that Daniel Bryan's ascension to super stardom was derailed by Randy fuckin Orton? Seriously...Bryan is the most over guy in front of a live crowd EVERY.WHERE. I have a hard time believing that it translates to losing buyers. Unfortunately, he was working with a guy that moves the needle backward like very few others in history.

Like I said, no one gives an iota of a fuck about Randy Orton. They never will. Ever.

If I get some time today I will research this for you with GRAPHZ~!

I feel like Orton consistently under-draws his contemporaries but I want to see for sure.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Bryan's popularity will translate to buys eventually. Even Stone Cold took like 7 months to seriously draw. People think he was an instant success, but he wasn't. It took some time.

To me the bad Survivor Series number is a feather in Bryan's cap in the sense that Big Show did even worse. And you're right, nobody gives a single fuck about Orton. Or The Authority angle.

I'm still waiting for that Triple H piece I requested from mookie. I'm convinced he is another guy that constantly underdrew his contemporaries, but I'll be damned if I am going to do the research on it. I think it'd make for an interesting piece regardless. IIRC, Big Dave thinks H's was a pretty big draw in his day. He had a list where he rated him over The Rock as a draw, which was fucking hilarious, but I digress.

Orton though, is on another level of bad in regards to being a draw. He is the modern day Lex Luger.

[FedEx227]

Okay here's what I came up with. Full article coming soon but here's a quick graph to look at.

This is average of Orton main events (counting him as an actual main event player, not meaningless 2010-2011 World Heavyweight Title runs against Christian), legit focus of the show or focus of the company to some extent main events.

Plotted against average buys for non-Royal Rumble, WrestleMania and Summerslam. Those throw everything out of wack and really draw on their own these days, so I didnt think they were relevant.

What I produced is about what I'd think. About 2009 everyone was done with Orton in the main event level:

[Leftwich]

Okay here's what I came up with. Full article coming soon but here's a quick graph to look at.

This is average of Orton main events (counting him as an actual main event player, not meaningless 2010-2011 World Heavyweight Title runs against Christian), legit focus of the show or focus of the company to some extent main events.

Plotted against average buys for non-Royal Rumble, WrestleMania and Summerslam. Those throw everything out of wack and really draw on their own these days, so I didnt think they were relevant.

What I produced is about what I'd think. About 2009 everyone was done with Orton in the main event level:

Is it ok to assume wrestling fans have evolved or people just arent as interested in the product as they once were? Orton could have gotten over as a legitimate heel in the late 90's up into the mid 2000's but maybe fans really want an underdog... im just rambling.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm still waiting for that Triple H piece I requested from mookie. I'm convinced he is another guy that constantly underdrew his contemporaries, but I'll be damned if I am going to do the research on it. I think it'd make for an interesting piece regardless. IIRC, Big Dave thinks H's was a pretty big draw in his day. He had a list where he rated him over The Rock as a draw, which was fucking hilarious, but I digress.

Orton though, is on another level of bad in regards to being a draw. He is the modern day Lex Luger.

Meltzer always rates Rock very high as a draw, way higher than Trips. I don't know anybody credible who thinks Trips was a better draw than Rock. Maybe you are mixing something up.

I have literally no time this weekend because of work, but I'll try to dig up the Observer back issue with the all time draw list. I'm almost certain he had Rock way ahead of Trips. If I'm not mistaken, Rock was on top during the all time record live event gate year when Austin was hurt.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Meltzer always rates Rock very high as a draw, way higher than Trips. I don't know anybody credible who thinks Trips was a better draw than Rock. Maybe you are mixing something up.

I have literally no time this weekend because of work, but I'll try to dig up the Observer back issue with the all time draw list. I'm almost certain he had Rock way ahead of Trips. If I'm not mistaken, Rock was on top during the all time record live event gate year when Austin was hurt.

http://wrestlingclique.com/wwe-discussion/141266-dave-meltzers-list-biggest-world-wrestling-federation-world-wrestling-entertainment-draws.html

[Guest]

Apparently UNLV ticket office put out promotional work of Batista returning for a WWE live event in February, and now the word is out. Likely return is at the Royal Rumble, and possibly going until August when he has to leave to promote a movie.

[Leftwich]

Apparently UNLV ticket office put out promotional work of Batista returning for a WWE live event in February, and now the word is out. Likely return is at the Royal Rumble, and possibly going until August when he has to leave to promote a movie.

Read about it on Reddit. Really exciting to see him back. Plays the monster role really well.

[Warner2BruceTD]

http://wrestlingclique.com/wwe-discu...ent-draws.html

Almost 100% positive that list is the all time MSG sellouts list. That's why Backlund is 3, Rocco is 4, and Austin is so far down. Its just a raw amount of total sellouts.