The General Wrestling Thread

[SuperKevin]

So one has to assume Cena will now face Batista at Wrestlemania right?

[Guest]

So one has to assume Cena will now face Batista at Wrestlemania right?

He may come back as a face against his old buddies from Evolution, and get stuck in a feud with H's. It would be a waste of a return. I also don't think it's Cena, at least now. I think Vince may use him to put Ryback over

[BigBiss]

the guy that threw a fit and quit ... Babyface?

[Guest]

the guy that threw a fit and quit ... Babyface?

It's WWE.......anything can be booked.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Almost 100% positive that list is the all time MSG sellouts list. That's why Backlund is 3, Rocco is 4, and Austin is so far down. Its just a raw amount of total sellouts.

I've looked into the list further...and I can't find anything on the internet where it says that list is for his All-Time MSG sellouts. All say its the Biggest Draws in WWF/E History.

Also, found some lists of Meltzer using his super analytic approach to gates...he's got H's as a top three draw annually for like 8 years in the 2000's.

It was published in the Observer in 2008. Maybe you can go back and find it in the archives to confirm/deny.

edit - Just found someone on the nether regions of the interweb said its MSG + PPV and TV.

[Warner2BruceTD]

First six months of 2008 archives are non existent for some reason, and I couldn't find this from July-Dec.

I still think it's an MSG list. That's the only list Rocca or Backlund would be that high. Backlund was really only a major draw in MSG, he did ok in the other cities but sold out MSG all of the time. Same for Rocca who killed it in MSG in all of those tag matches with Miguel Perez.

There is no way on earth Steve Austin is that low on any list that includes PPV & TV. And I can see Trips ahead of Rock or Austin on an MSG list because he was around longer and would have headlined more shows.

The names on the list, all the way down, and especially the order, just scream MSG. Backlund wouldn't be ahead of people like Steve Austin otherwise. NOBODY would be ahead of Austin except for maybe Hogan, and maybe Bruno, but Bruno has the disadvantage of strictly house shows, so by raw dollars Hogan & Austin blow him away. But as you know Bruno is the undisputed king of MSG (and he's listed #1 here), and probably a bunch of other buildings.

EDIT - I just saw Miguel Perez at #12. This HAS to be an MSG list.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Posted the link on Meltzer's board and asked what it was, hopefully he sees the thread and answers.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

It's based on the number of MSG shows headlined (all shows up to 95, non-TV shows since) and the number of PPVs headlined, with bonus points for an MSG sellout or a PPV doing 400,000+ buys, and double bonus points for an MSG + Felt Forum sellout or a PPV doing 600,000+ buys.

Slanted MSG (probably for the guys pre-80's), but takes into account PPV, and I have no idea if he is including TV, his shit in parenthesis confuses me).

Also, spoiler'd due to length...Big Dave's list of Biggest Draws during the entire Century+

 

The formula is largely based on matches that drew 10,000 fans (and an extra point if topping 20,000, a third point if topping 30,000, etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrestling Observer Newsletter
1908 - Frank Gotch and George Hackenschmidt

1909 - Frank Gotch

1910 - 1. Great Gama and Stanislaus Zbyszko; 3. Frank Gotch; 4. Dr. Ben Roller

1911 - 1. Frank Gotch and George Hackenschmidt

1912 - 1. Frank Gotch

1913 - 1. Stanislaus Zbyszko and George Lurich; 3. Frank Gotch

1914 - Unavailable

1915 - 1. Charley Cutler; 2. Joe Stecher

1916 - 1. Joe Stecher; 2. Ed “Strangler” Lewis

1917 - 1. Joe Stecher; 2. Charley Peters, Jim Londos, John Pesek Ad Santel, Wladek Zbyszko; John Olin, Ed “Strangler” Lewis

1918 - 1. Joe Stecher, Ed “Strangler” Lewis and Wladek Zbyszko

1919 - 1. Ed “Strangler” Lewis; 2. Wladek Zbyszko; 3. Joe Stecher and Jim Londos

1920 - 1. Joe Stecher; 2. Jim Londos; 3. Earl Caddock and Ed “Strangler” Lewis; 5. John Pesek

1921 - 1. Ed “Strangler” Lewis; 2. Earl Caddock; 3. Jim Londos, John Pesek and Stanislaus Zbyszko

1922 - 1. Stanislaus Zbyszko; 2. Earl Caddock and Ed “Strangler” Lewis

1923 - 1. Ed “Strangler” Lewis; 2. Jim Londos; 3. Stanislaus Zbyszko and John Pesek

1924 - 1. Ed “Strangler” Lewis and Jim Londos; 3. Toots Mondt and Stanislaus Zbyszko

1925 - 1. Ed “Strangler” Lewis, Joe Stecher, Wayne Munn and Stanislaus Zbyszko

1926 - 1. Jim Londos; 2. Joe Stecher; 3. Ray Steele, John Pesek, Ed “Strangler” Lewis and Jim Browning

1927 - 1. Jim Londos and John Pesek

1928 - 1. Jim Londos; 2. John Pesek and Ed “Strangler” Lewis; 4. Joe Stecher, Dick Shikat, Gus Sonnenberg, Ray Steele

1929 - 1. Gus Sonnenberg; 2. Ed “Strangler” Lewis; 3. Joe Stecher; 4. Jim Londos; 5. Dick Shikat; 6. Stanley Stasiak and Joe Malciewiez

1930 - 1. Dick Shikat and Jim Londos; 3. Gus Sonnenberg and Everett Marshall; 5. Gino Garibaldi, Abe Coleman and Man Mountain Dean; 8. Stanley Stasiak, Karl Pojello, Ed “Strangler” Lewis, Hans Steinke, Ed Don George, Milo Steinborn an Rudy Dusek

1931 - 1. Jim Londos (dominant year, set all-time record for biggest national drawing card); 2. Ray Steele; 3. Jim McMillen and Gus Sonnenberg; 5. Rudy Dusek and Sandor Szabo; 7. Herb Freeman, Pat O’Shocker, Kola Kwariani, George Calza

1932 - 1. Jim Londos (dominant year); 2. Henri DeGlane; 3. Ed “Strangler” Lewis and Dick Shikat; 5. Jack Washburn

1933 - 1. Jim Londos (dominant year); 2. Henri DeGlane; 3. Jim Browning; 4. Ed Don George; 5. Ray Steele and Gus Sonnenberg; 7. Joe Stecher, Dick Shikat and Ed “Strangler” Lewis

1934 - 1. Jim Londos (dominant year, near record breaker); 2. Man Mountain Dean; 3. Dick Shikat; 4. Ed Don George, Ed “Strangler” Lewis, Jim Browning; 6. Joe Savoldi; 7. Joe Stecher and George Zaharias; 9. Everett Marshall, Henri DeGlane, Orville Brown and Gino Garibaldi

1935 - 1. Danno O’Mahoney (dominant year); 2. Jim Londos and Man Mountain Dean; 4. Vincent Lopez; 5. Ed “Strangler” Lewis; 6. Ed Don George; 7. Orville Brown and Gus Sonnenberg; 9. Chief Little Wolf and Ernie Dusek

1936 - 1. Danno O’Mahoney (dominant year); 2. Yvon Robert; 3. Ed Don George; 4. Everett Marshall, Ali Baba, Rube Wright, Vincent Lopez and Earl McCready

1937 - 1. Jim Londos (dominant year); 2. Everett Marshall; 3. Yvon Robert; 4. Orville Brown

1938 - 1. Jim Londos and Steve Casey; 3. Lou Thesz, Everett Marshall and Bronko Nagurski; 6. Vincent Lopez

1939 - 1. Jim Londos, Vincent Lopez and Dave Levin; 4. Lou Thesz, Everett Marshall, Dean Detton and Mildred Burke

1940 - 1. Jim Londos; 2. Bronko Nagurski and Maurice “French Angel” Tillet; 4. George Zaharias, Lou Thesz, Bill Longson and Ed Don George

1941 - 1. Bill Longson (dominant year); 2. Ed Don George and Wlasislow Talum; 4. Mildred Burke

1942 - 1. Bill Longson (dominant year); 2. Yvon Robert; 3. Maurice “French Angel” Tillet; 4. Lou Thesz and Sandor Szabo

1943 - 1. Bill Longson (dominant year); 2. Bobby Managoff, Swedish Angel and Vic Holbook; 5. Sandor Szabo and Yvon Robert

1944 - 1. Bill Longson (dominant year); 2. Whipper Billy Watson and Sandor Szabo; 4. Swedish Angel and Warren Bockwinkel

1945 - 1. Bill Longson (dominant year); 2. Wlasislow Talum and Bob Wagner

1946 - 1. Bill Longson (dominant year); 2. Buddy Rogers; 3. Yvon Robert and Primo Carnera; 5. Ray Vilmer, Frank Sexton, Wlasislow Talum, Bobby Managoff, Lou Thesz and Jim Londos

1947 - 1. Bill Longson; 2. Frank Sexton; 3. Lou Thesz and Whipper Billy Watson; 5. Gorgeous George; 6. Bob Wagner, Buddy Rogers, Larry Moquin and Bert Assirati

1948 - 1. Gorgeous George; 2. Bill Longson; 3. Enrique Torres; 4. Ernie & Emil Dusek; 6. Babe & Chris Zaharias and Whipper Billy Watson; 8. Maurice “French Angel” Tillet; 9. Sandor Szabo, Frank Sexton, Don Eagle, Manuel Garza, Buddy Rogers, Yvon Robert and Primo Carnera

1949 - 1. Gorgeous George and Whipper Billy Watson; 3. Lou Thesz; 4. Buddy Rogers, Yvon Robert and Don Eagle; 7. Argentina Rocca, Bill Longson and El Santo

1950 - 1. Lou Thesz and Argentina Rocca; 3. Buddy Rogers, Primo Carnera and Gorgeous George; 6. Don Eagle and Yukon Eric; 8. Whipper Billy Watson, Yvon Robert, Nanjo Singh, Bill Longson and Maurice “French Angel” Tillet

1951 - 1. Lou Thesz; 2. Whipper Billy Watson, Buddy Rogers and Great Togo; 5. Bill Longson and Yvon Robert; 7. Argentina Rocca, Yukon Eric, Enrique Llanes and Rikidozan

1952 - 1. Lou Thesz (dominant year); 2. Argentina Rocca and Killer Kowalski; 4. Buddy Rogers Primo Carnera, Verne Gagne and Baron Michele Leone; 8. Bobby Managoff, Pat O’Connor and Mighty Atlas

1953 - 1. Lou Thesz and Blue Demon; 3. El Santo; 4. Killer Kowalski and Verne Gagne; 6. Yvon Robert and Argentina Rocca; 8. Hans Schmidt, Tony Borne, Yukon Eric, Whipper Billy Watson and Al & Tiny Mills

1954 - 1. Argentina Rocca; 2. Verne Gagne, Pat O’Connor and Rikidozan; 5. El Santo; 6. Killer Kowalski, Mike & Ben Sharpe, Masahiko Kimura, Bert Assirati; 10. Whipper Billy Watson, Lou Thesz, Hans Schmidt

1955 - 1. Lou Thesz; 2. Wilbur Snyder; 3. Argentina Rocca and Hans Schmidt; 5. Killer Kowalski, Yukon Eric, Neff Maiava, Buddy Rogers, Emile Czaja and Rikidozan

1956 - 1. Argentina Rocca and Whipper Billy Watson; 3. Lou Thesz; 4. Killer Kowalski, Dr. Jerry Graham and El Santo; 7. Verne Gagne and Wilbur Snyder; 9. Dick the Bruiser, Ivan & Karol Kalmikoff, Reggie (Crusher) & Stan Liswoski; Miguel Perez, Edouard Carpentier, Don Leo Jonathan and Gorgeous George

1957 - 1. Lou Thesz; 2. Argentina Rocca; 3. Gene Kiniski; 4. Killer Kowalski and Edouard Carpentier; 6. Rikidozan; 7. Miguel Perez; 8. Whipper Billy Watson; 9. Hans Schmidt and Bobo Brazil

1958 - 1. Argentina Rocca & Miguel Perez (dominant year); 2. Killer Kowalski; 3. Edouard Carpentier; 4. Dr. Jerry Graham; 5. Fabulous Kangaroos and Eddie Graham; 7. Don Leo Jonathan, Pat O’Connor, The Sheik, Wild Bull Curry, Tony Borne and Black Shadow

1959 - 1. Argentina Rocca & Miguel Perez (dominant year); 2. Dick the Bruiser, Dr. Jerry & Eddie Graham, and Killer Kowalski; 5. Johnny Valentine; 6. Buddy Rogers and Wilbur Snyder; 8. Lord Athol Layton, Hans Schmidt, Angelo Poffo, Yukon Eric, Whipper Billy Watson, Gene Kiniski, Gorgeous George, The Sheik, Edouard Carpentier, Roy & Ray Shire (Ray Stevens)

1960 - 1. Buddy Rogers; 2. Argentina Rocca; 3. Dick the Bruiser, Bearcat Wright and Pat O’Connor; 6. Eddie Graham, Sweet Daddy Siki and Killer Kowalski; 9. Bruno Sammartino; 10. Cowboy Bob Ellis, Gene Kiniski and Yukon Eric

1961 - 1. Buddy Rogers (dominant year, set all-time record for biggest single year draw); 2. Argentina Rocca; 3. Johnny Valentine; 4. Pat O’Connor; 5. Bob Orton; 6. The Fabulous Kangaroos, Dick the Bruiser, Argentina Apollo; 9. Cowboy Bob Ellis, Ray Stevens, Fred Blassie and Rikidozan

1962 - 1. Buddy Rogers (dominant year); 2. Ray Stevens; 3. Johnny Valentine; 4. Bobo Brazil; 5. Cowboy Bob Ellis and Pepper Gomez; 7. Fred Blassie, Rikidozan and The Crusher; 10. Wilbur Snyder, Lou Thesz, Johnny Barend and Killer Kowalski

1963 - 1. Bruno Sammartino; 2. Buddy Rogers (should be noted Rogers’ last match of the year was May 17 due to heart problems, was on the way to a dominant year, and he still ended up finishing a close second) and Lou Thesz; 4. Killer Kowalski and Freddie Blassie; 6. The Destroyer; 7. Bobo Brazil and Hans Mortier; 9. Ray Stevens, Edouard Carpentier, Bearcat Wright and Gorilla Monsoon

1964 - 1. Bruno Sammartino (dominant year); 2. Fritz Von Erich; 3. Lou Thesz; 4. Dick the Bruiser; 5. Freddie Blassie and Gene Kiniski; 7. Ray Stevens, Johnny Valentine, Giant Baba, Waldo Von Erich and Gorilla Monsoon

1965 - 1. Bruno Sammartino (dominant year); 2. Cowboy Bill Watts; 3. Fritz Von Erich, Dick the Bruiser, Bill Miller; 6. Lou Thesz, Johnny Valentine, Kinji Shibuya, Toyonobori, Rene Guajardo, Karloff Lagarde, Ray Mendoza

1966 - 1. Lou Thesz; 2. Gene Kiniski; 3. Bruno Sammartino; 4. Fritz Von Erich; 5. Dick the Bruiser; 6. Giant Baba and Johnny Valentine; 8. Ernie Ladd (an impressive total since Ladd only wrestled during the pro football off-season as he was an AFL star player at this point in time), Dory Funk Jr., The Crusher

1967 - 1. Bruno Sammartino; 2. Gene Kiniski; 3. Giant Baba; 4. Mark Lewin; 5. Gorilla Monsoon; 6. The Crusher, Johnny Valentine, Edouard Carpentier, Verne Gagne, Ray Stevens and Toru Tanaka

1968 - 1. Bruno Sammartino; 2. Lou Thesz; 3. Gene Kiniski, Dara Singh, Bobo Brazil and Dick the Bruiser; 7. The Crusher; 8. Giant Baba, Freddie Blassie, Ray Stevens and Mil Mascaras

1969 - 1. The Sheik (dominant year); 2. Bruno Sammartino and Dory Funk Jr.; 4. Ray Stevens; 5. Mad Dog & Butcher Vachon; 7. Ivan Koloff and Bobo Brazil; 9. Jacques Rougeau Sr., Dick the Bruiser and Gene Kiniski

1970 - 1. The Sheik; 2. Bruno Sammartino; 3. Freddie Blassie; 4. Dory Funk Jr.; 5. The Crusher, Mad Dog Vachon and Pat Patterson; 8. Ray Stevens; 9. Gene Kiniski, Dick the Bruiser, Verne Gagne

1971 - 1. The Sheik; 2. Pedro Morales; 3. Freddie Blassie; 4. John Tolos; 5. Dory Funk Jr.; 6. Mil Mascaras; 7. Tiger Jeet Singh; 8. Tex McKenzie, The Crusher, Black Gordman, Bruno Sammartino, Luke Graham & Tarzan Tyler

1972 - 1. The Sheik; 2. Pedro Morales; 3. Ernie Ladd; 4. Dory Funk Jr., Dick the Bruiser & The Crusher, Bruno Sammartino and Pampero Firpo; 8. John Tolos; 9. Killer Kowalski; 10. Black Gordman, Blackjack Lanza, Mil Mascaras and Ray Stevens

1973 - 1. The Sheik; 2. Pedro Morales; 3. Dick the Bruiser; 4. Ernie Ladd; 5. Bruno Sammartino; 6. The Crusher; 7. Johnny Valentine; 8. Dory Funk Jr. and Superstar Billy Graham; 10. Harley Race and Jack Brisco

1974 - 1. Bruno Sammartino; 2. The Sheik; 3. Jerry Lawler; 4. Jack Brisco; 5. Andre the Giant and Valiant Brothers; 7. Chief Jay Strongbow, Don Leo Jonathan; 9. Killer Kowalski, Dick the Bruiser and Jackie Fargo

1975 - 1. Bruno Sammartino (dominant year); 2. Spyros Arion; 3. Jack Brisco; 4. Mongolian Stomper; 5. Andre the Giant; 6. Jerry Lawler; 7. Ivan Koloff; 8. Dick the Bruiser, The Crusher, Robert Fuller, Perro Aguayo

1976 - 1. Bruno Sammartino (dominant year); 2. Antonio Inoki; 3. Superstar Billy Graham; 4. Terry Funk, Ivan Koloff and Stan Hansen; 7. Andre the Giant; 8. Jerry Lawler; 9. Ric Flair and Nick Bockwinkel

1977 - 1. Superstar Billy Graham; 2. Bruno Sammartino; 3. Harley Race and Jerry Lawler; 5. Ken Patera; 6. Dusty Rhodes; 7. The Sheik and Mil Mascaras; 9. Gene & Ole Anderson and Bill Dundee

1978 - 1. Superstar Billy Graham ; 2. Bob Backlund; 3. Dusty Rhodes; 4. Harley Race; 5. Bruno Sammartino; 6. Ric Flair and Andre the Giant; 8. Canek, Ernie Ladd and Ivan Koloff

1979 - 1. Bob Backlund; 2. Harley Race; 3. Ric Flair; 4. Andre the Giant; 5. Bruno Sammartino, Ricky Steamboat and Pat Patterson; 8. Peter Maivia, Ivan Koloff, Nick Bockwinkel and Dusty Rhodes

1980 - 1. Bob Backlund; 2. Bruno Sammartino; 3. Larry Zbyszko; 4. Harley Race and Ken Patera; 6. Andre the Giant; 7. Hulk Hogan; 8. Antonio Inoki; 9. Ric Flair and Stan Hansen

1981 - 1. Bob Backlund (dominant year); 2. Andre the Giant; 3. Ric Flair and Stan Hansen; 5. Hulk Hogan; 6. Sgt. Slaughter; 7. Killer Khan and Nick Bockwinkel; 9. Jerry Blackwell, Harley Race and Dusty Rhodes

1982 - 1. Bob Backlund (breaks Rogers record for most big gates in one year); 2. Ric Flair; 3. Hulk Hogan; 4. Nick Bockwinkel; 5. Jimmy Snuka; 6. Perro Aguayo, Sgt. Slaughter, Roddy Piper and Superstar Billy Graham; 10. Andre the Giant, Junkyard Dog and Ken Patera

1983 - 1. Ric Flair; 2. Bob Backlund; 3. Harley Race; 4. Don Muraco; 5. Sgt. Slaughter; 6. Hulk Hogan; 7. Andre the Giant; 8. Jimmy Snuka; 9. Ricky Steamboat and John Studd

1984 - 1. Hulk Hogan (set all-time record for most big gates in one year); 2. Ric Flair; 3. Antonio Inoki; 4. Iron Sheik; 5. Kerry Von Erich; 6. Andre the Giant; 7. Paul Orndorff and Road Warriors; 9. Junkyard Dog; 10. Nick Bockwinkel and Canek

1985 - 1 Hulk Hogan (set all-time record for most big gates in one year); 2. Ric Flair; 3. Roddy Piper; 4. Paul Orndorff and Road Warriors; 5. Andre the Giant; 6. John Studd; 7. Bob Orton Jr.; 8. Randy Savage and Antonio Inoki; 10. Kevin & Kerry Von Erich

1986 - 1. Hulk Hogan (set all-time record for most big gates in one year); 2. Ric Flair and Paul Orndorff; 4. Road Warriors; 5. Randy Savage; 6. Dusty Rhodes and Nikita Koloff; 7. Roddy Piper and King Kong Bundy; 9. Midnight Express and Tito Santana

1987 - 1. Hulk Hogan (dominant year); 2. Ric Flair; 3. Randy Savage; 4. Kamala; 5. Road Warriors; 6. Dusty Rhodes and One Man Gang; 8. Andre the Giant and Antonio Inoki; 10. Harley Race and Carlos Colon

1988 - 1. Hulk Hogan; 2. Randy Savage; 3. Ric Flair and Andre the Giant; 5. Ted DiBiase; 6. Lex Luger; 7. Big Bossman; 8. Tully Blanchard; 9. Road Warriors, Dusty Rhodes and Carlos Colon

1989 - 1. Hulk Hogan; 2. Randy Savage; 3. Big Bossman; 4. Ultimate Warrior; 5. Big Van Vader; 6. Akira Maeda; 7. Antonio Inoki; 8. Andre the Giant, Carlos Colon and Rick Rude

1990 - 1. Hulk Hogan; 2. Ultimate Warrior; 3. Stan Hansen; 4. Mr. Perfect; 5. Riki Choshu; 6. Konnan and Rick Rude; 8. Big Van Vader, Perro Aguayo and Earthquake

1991 - 1. Hulk Hogan; 2. Ric Flair; 3. Konnan; 4. Perro Aguayo; 5. Sgt. Slaughter; 6. Ultimate Warrior; 7. Tatsumi Fujinami; 8. Undertaker, Genichiro Tenryu and Canek

1992 - 1. Ric Flair; 2. Konnan; 3. Hulk Hogan and Sid Vicious; 5. Cien Caras; 6. Bret Hart; 7. Randy Savage; 8. Vampiro; 9. Davey Boy Smith; 10. Perro Aguayo

1993 - 1. Konnan; 2. Cien Caras; 3. Perro Aguayo; 4. Genichiro Tenryu; 5. Mascara Ano 2000 and El Hijo del Santo; 7. Keiji Muto; 8. Riki Choshu, Love Machine, Octagon and Tatsumi Fujinami (Bret Hart was No. 1 in the United States)

1994 - 1. Konnan; 2. Bret Hart; 3. Shinya Hashimoto; 4. Nobuhiko Takada and Perro Aguayo; 6. Genichiro Tenryu; 7. Antonio Inoki, Owen Hart and Love Machine; 10. Cien Caras, Keiji Muto and Atsushi Onita

1995 - 1. Shinya Hashimoto; 2. Ric Flair; 3. Antonio Inoki; 4. Konnan and Keiji Muto; 6. Perro Aguayo; 7. Masahiro Chono; 8. Mitsuharu Misawa and Cien Caras; 10. Nobuhiko Takada and Diesel

1996 - 1. Nobuhiko Takada; 2. Shawn Michaels; 3. Shinya Hashimoto; 4. Bret Hart; 5. Keiji Muto; 6. Diesel; 7. Ric Flair, Kenta Kobashi, Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue, Vader, Genichiro Tenryu, El Hijo del Santo and Riki Choshu

1997 - 1. Shinya Hashimoto; 2. Undertaker; 3. Shawn Michaels; 4. Bret Hart; 5. Naoya Ogawa; 6. Lex Luger and Keiji Muto; 8. Steve Austin; 9. Hulk Hogan; 10. Riki Choshu, Kevin Nash and Mick Foley

1998 - 1. Steve Austin (set all-time record for most big gates in one year); 2. Undertaker; 3. Kane; 4. Mick Foley; 5. The Rock; 6. Bill Goldberg; 7. Hulk Hogan; 8. HHH; 9. Sting; 10. Randy Savage

1999 - 1. The Rock (set all-time record for most big gates in one year); 2. Steve Austin; 3. HHH; 4. Big Show; 5. Kane; 6. Undertaker; 7. Keiji Muto; 8. Bill Goldberg; 9. Ric Flair; 10. Kevin Nash

2000 - 1. The Rock (set all-time record for most big gates in one year); 2. HHH; 3. Kurt Angle; 4. Kane and Chris Benoit; 6. X-Pac; 7. Undertaker; 8. Road Dogg; 9. Naoya Ogawa; 10. Kensuke Sasaki and Chris Jericho

2001 - 1. Steve Austin; 2. The Rock; 3. Kurt Angle; 4. HHH; 5. Undertaker; 6. Chris Jericho; 7. Kane; 8. Kensuke Sasaki, Chris Benoit and Keiji Muto

2002 -1. The Rock; 2. Bob Sapp; 3. HHH; 4. Hulk Hogan; 5. Chris Jericho; 6. Steve Austin; 7. Kazushi Sakuraba; 8. Brock Lesnar; 9. Yuji Nagata and Mirko Cro Cop

2003 - 1. Brock Lesnar; 2. HHH; 3. Kazushi Sakuraba; 4. Big Show and Kurt Angle; 6. Yuji Nagata, Hulk Hogan, Kenta Kobashi, Masahiro Chono, Bill Goldberg, Shawn Michaels and Wanderlei Silva

2004 - 1. HHH; 2. Chris Benoit; 3. Bob Sapp and Eddie Guerrero; 5. Shawn Michaels; 6. La Parka; 7. Randy Orton, Ric Flair and Kenta Kobashi; 10. Shinsuke Nakamura, Cibernetico and Perro Aguayo Jr.

2005 - 1. Kenta Kobashi; 2. HHH; 3. Mistico and Ultimo Guerrero; 5. Atlantis, John Cena and Batista; 8. Rey Bucanero and Cibernetico; 10. Kurt Angle and El Hijo del Santo

2006 - 1. Mistico; 2. Perro Aguayo Jr. and Dr. Wagner Jr.; 4. Atlantis and Black Warrior; 6. John Cena and Negro Casas; 8. Ultimo Guerrero & Rey Bucanero; 9. La Parka, Konnan and Muerte Cibernetico (Mesias)

2007 - 1. John Cena; 2. Mistico; 3. Batista; 4. Randy Orton and Perro Aguayo Jr; 6. Ultimo Guerrero; 7. Dr. Wagner Jr.; 8. Cibernetico; 9. Hector Garza and Great Khali

2008 - 1. Mistico; 2. HHH; 3. Perro Aguayo Jr.; 4. Ultimo Guerrero and Hector Garza; 6. Cibernetico; 7. Zorro and Shocker; 9. Shawn Michaels and Chris Jericho

[Warner2BruceTD]

I think I remember this now.

I posted it, and Meltzer was browsing the forum, but he didn't go into the thread. I edited the title to DAVE LOOK AT THIS, so hopefully when he comes back he can explain it.

There is no fucking way Trips is ahead of some of those guys unless it's just raw addition of total shows or some shit.

EDIT - '99 & '00 were those Rock years I was talking about earlier. Trips never sniffed those years.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I think you and I discussed something like this or similar a few years ago.

I just can't get behind the data method that Dave uses for anything Hogan-forward. Business changed. Works great for anything before early-mid 80's. Anything after...eh. Assigning gate totals and shit like that just doesn't work. ESPECIALLY once you get to post-merger of WWF/WCW where it is a one horse race in the US.

Assigning HHH the points for the WWE drawing strong gates in the 2000's when they were the only game in town just seems silly. Same for Undertaker...and, I like The Undertaker...so, no bias. FWIW, I'd say Taker is a better draw than H's.

[Warner2BruceTD]

OK, I found it. 11/10/08 Observer.

It's just a raw data dump of main events.

"What we did was take the number of main events each performer did on major shows. Our definition of major shows would be every PPV event in company history, plus all Madison Square Garden shows starting with the November 26, 1956, show, when Vince McMahon Sr. took over promotional rights to the arena about 11 months after the combine of Eddie Quinn and Al Haft closed up shop. That pair promoted shows that drew weak crowds in 1954 and 1955, and then closed up shop.

When WWE moved to monthly PPV shows, we moved away from Madison Square Garden as the base arena to the monthly PPV events as the big shows, although we did include Madison Square Garden sellouts after 1995 for non-TV tapings."

This explains why Miguel Perez is on the list, and why longevity guys like Trips are so much higher than they should be.

Dave actually included blurbs on each guy in the issue. Here are some interesting ones:

1. BRUNO SAMMARTINO - One would expect Sammartino in this position. He headlined Madison Square Garden more times than any wrestler in history (roughly 130 times), and along with Bob Backlund, sold it out more than anyone (about 45; the 187 sellouts in 211 appearances story that will probably be repeated long after he’s gone and repeated as fact forever, is complete folklore). Sammartino had his first MSG main event on June 4, 1960, teaming with Rocca, against Pampero Firpo & The Great Antonio, winning two straight falls. He was WWWF champion from 1963-71, and again from 1973-77 and worked his last MSG main event in 1986. He will always be No. 1 in this system because nobody is ever going to be so consistently on top for so many years, just because of how the business has changed. In fact, by this system, Sammartino has almost twice as many points as Hulk Hogan.

7. STEVE AUSTIN - Undertaker and HHH have passed him in recent years since he finished his career in 2003. Had he not retired at the age of 38 due to injuries, as well as missed what probably would have been his biggest drawing year in 1999 with neck surgery, he would have been No. 2 on this list by now. Nobody ever in company history was a bigger drawing card or merchandise seller then he was at his peak.

8. THE ROCK - Finishing this high is a testament to how big a draw he was, because he was really only a full-timer on top from 1999 to 2001, at which point he started acting. Had he stayed in wrestling, he would also have wound up as No. 2 on this list. Realistically, Rock, Austin, Rocca, Sammartino and Hogan would have to be considered the biggest draws in company history, with Graham and perhaps Andre the Giant (as an attraction draw, but Andre actually didn’t wrestle a lot of main events) following.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

So, Jeff Jarrett is out from TNA. As if he hadn't been for a while, but regardless...

[Guest]

So, Jeff Jarrett is out from TNA. As if he hadn't been for a while, but regardless...

He was taking more of a role backstage, but I guess he's going to get out before the whole thing comes crashing down. I wonder if he retains his minority ownership…..not that it's going to be worth much.

[Guest]

So, Jeff Jarrett is out from TNA. As if he hadn't been for a while, but regardless...

He was taking more of a role backstage, but I guess he's going to get out before the whole thing comes crashing down. I wonder if he retains his minority ownership…..not that it's going to be worth much.

[Guest]

the guy that threw a fit and quit ... Babyface?

Hearing that one of the most talked scenarios right now is Batista vs Orton for the title at WM30. My scenario was wrong, but baby face sounds about right. Since he will be promoting Guardians of the Galaxy, a title run sounds about par for the course.