The General Wrestling Thread

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Oh larry, you're so silly. Or stubborn. Or both.

#2 babyface going into SummerSlam...#2 babyface coming out of SummerSlam...#2 babyface going into his program with The Authority, didn't draw a dime...#2 babyface coming out of it...remains #2 babyface to this day...looking like he'll get 5th in the pecking order at WrestleMania.

BIGGER STAR.

The baby has been put to rest alright.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I don't even know if it's not knowing what to do with him. There's 4 big names he could face, 5 if they ever did a face vs. face match with Punk which wouldn't be the worst idea. UT is the big one, obviously. Brock would be huge for him. Trips, maybe with HBK reffing, would make snese and be big time. And you know, would make an actual story arc from the last 5 months of 2013. Cena re-match would do well, even though it's underwhelming. Sheamus doesn't seem like they're lost on where to go with him, but they're having their last gasp at trying to slow down his momentum. Anyone watching from the outside can see that he is the star of the show, he needs something with balls at WM. Sheamus isn't it.

Honestly I think when they couldn't talk Michaels into working a match, everybody else was locked into a direction and they have nothing else for him. Because clearly HBK was the direction based on that great RAW segment. And the Wyatt thing was the perfect time killer since Michaels wasn't going to do TV every week until the Mania build, if at all. But, Bryan was way too over for the Wyatt thing to work, so they had to pull the plug early.

[Warner2BruceTD]

#2 babyface going into SummerSlam...#2 babyface coming out of SummerSlam...#2 babyface going into his program with The Authority, didn't draw a dime...#2 babyface coming out of it...remains #2 babyface to this day...looking like he'll get 5th in the pecking order at WrestleMania.

BIGGER STAR.

The baby has been put to rest alright.

He's never going to be the #1 with Cena around, until Cena decides to go part time, which might be another decade.

I'm not going to keep going in circles with you. We aren't going to agree. He wasn't #2 going into SummerSlam. He was a mid card comedy geek. The whole idea of SummerSlam was Cena picked the nerd. He wasn't even on the fucking stage in that segment.

But i'll play along. Even if he was #2 going into SummerSlam, and is still #2 now, that doesn't mean he isn't more over and a bigger star. Nobody gets bigger reactions. He hijacked the Cena/Orton segment. He's getting mainstream reactions now. The people have rallied around the "underdog who gets screwed" gimmick. He always gets the better of the heels. He's booked strong and it goes over a lot of people's heads.

The Mania match, if that indeed happens, is a potential momentum killer. No doubt. Honestly I think he's teflon and so over at this point that it won't matter. But there is no question they've cultivated a new star since SummerSlam, to the point I think it's now a silly debate.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

He's never going to be the #1 with Cena around, until Cena decides to go part time, which might be another decade.

I'm not going to keep going in circles with you. We aren't going to agree. He wasn't #2 going into SummerSlam. He was a mid card comedy geek. The whole idea of SummerSlam was Cena picked the nerd. He wasn't even on the fucking stage in that segment.

But i'll play along. Even if he was #2 going into SummerSlam, and is still #2 now, that doesn't mean he isn't more over and a bigger star. Nobody gets bigger reactions. He hijacked the Cena/Orton segment. He's getting mainstream reactions now. The people have rallied around the "underdog who gets screwed" gimmick. He always gets the better of the heels. He's booked strong and it goes over a lot of people's heads.

The Mania match, if that indeed happens, is a potential momentum killer. No doubt. Honestly I think he's teflon and so over at this point that it won't matter. But there is no question they've cultivated a new star since SummerSlam, to the point I think it's now a silly debate.

He was a mid-card comedy geek in April...they turned him north in May, he was going over everyone, sans that Raw where he hurt his shoulder in an Orton match. Gave the Shield their first loss, got the upper hand at every turn, main evented RAWs. Went over Orton in a RAW main event a few times. He was exactly in the same spot NOW as he was in July.

Going on to face Cena is supposed to turn him from #2 babyface into a drawing #2 babyface and it ain't happen. You said it was happening after The Authority storyline...it hasn't. Now, we're moving the goal post to WrestleMania...not looking likely. I guess now you're going to move it to SummerSlam 14?

The baby has been put to rest. You've got the worst case of expectancy bias this side of rams29jackson calling #1 seeds in the Super Bowl on Monday.

Funny enough, they've slid CM Punk right into Bryan's spot as the guy against The Authority.

[BigBiss]

only way that match is worth a fuck is if hes booked as HHH lap dog

[Warner2BruceTD]

He was a mid-card comedy geek in April...they turned him north in May, he was going over everyone, sans that Raw where he hurt his shoulder in an Orton match. Gave the Shield their first loss, got the upper hand at every turn, main evented RAWs. Went over Orton in a RAW main event a few times. He was exactly in the same spot NOW as he was in July.

Going on to face Cena is supposed to turn him from #2 babyface into a drawing #2 babyface and it ain't happen. You said it was happening after The Authority storyline...it hasn't. Now, we're moving the goal post to WrestleMania...not looking likely. I guess now you're going to move it to SummerSlam 14?

The baby has been put to rest. You've got the worst case of expectancy bias this side of rams29jackson calling #1 seeds in the Super Bowl on Monday.

Funny enough, they've slid CM Punk right into Bryan's spot as the guy against The Authority.

Nobody draws right out of the gate historically unless you are talking Hogan or something. I can't believe you have written him off as a draw based on his first run, which was against ORTON of all people (who managed to drive viewers away in DROVES on RAW this week against CENA).

No goal posts being moved. Just a complete lack of seeing the obvious from people obsessed with the title being the only thing that matters. They'll be time for the title later. Daniel Bryan is a bigger star today than he was in August. I'm not sure how you don't see crowd reactions or how crowds have forced them to change long term booking and not see it. And that's in spite of supposed bad booking all along the way, which I don't even think was as bad in reality as it looked on the surface at the time.

Punk/Trips was obvious since the RAW angle. As was Bryan/HBK. HBK said no. So what do you do? Hopefully not Sheamus. We'll see.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I'm not writting him off as a draw.

You just thought he was going to become one after The Authority angle...and he wasn't...like I said he wasn't.

As for the title...as I've said before...not every champion is a draw, but every draw is a champion...Bryan needs the title. Fin. He's reached the ceiling without it. They now need to give him the ball and let him run. It took Punk a little bit WITH THE TITLE to go from a non-draw to a mild one. Bryan needs the same. What they've been doing with him since the Pedigree is spinning his wheels wasting time.

He became a big star after beating Cena. Nothing since then has improve his stock. You said it was going to happen. It just hasn't. The baby has been put to rest.

The only reason they are changing programs is because they've been the wrong programs in the first place. Crowd has been manipulating his push since WrestleMania two years ago. They keep putting him in dumb shit...fans are trying to market correct...its worked the past two years all of the way up the card. They clearly want to see him at the top.

He's not mid-card as some of the GenPop'rs around the net would lead you to believe...but he's not headlining. Closing RAWs is awesome...but then being put 5th in the pecking order at WrestleMania kind of puts shit in perspective.

[BigBiss]

I'm not writting him off as a draw.

You just thought he was going to become one after The Authority angle...and he wasn't...like I said he wasn't.

As for the title...as I've said before...not every champion is a draw, but every draw is a champion...Bryan needs the title. Fin. He's reached the ceiling without it. They now need to give him the ball and let him run. It took Punk a little bit WITH THE TITLE to go from a non-draw to a mild one. Bryan needs the same. What they've been doing with him since the Pedigree is spinning his wheels wasting time.

He became a big star after beating Cena. Nothing since then has improve his stock. You said it was going to happen. It just hasn't. The baby has been put to rest.

The only reason they are changing programs is because they've been the wrong programs in the first place. Crowd has been manipulating his push since WrestleMania two years ago. They keep putting him in dumb shit...fans are trying to market correct...its worked the past two years all of the way up the card. They clearly want to see him at the top.

He's not mid-card as some of the GenPop'rs around the net would lead you to believe...but he's not headlining. Closing RAWs is awesome...but then being put 5th in the pecking order at WrestleMania kind of puts shit in perspective.

How many belts did Andre hold ?

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

How many belts did Andre hold ?

Different era...but even so, as the lone exception...was Andre ever the legit, #1 draw in any given year? I don't think he ever worked enough to do it in the first place. But, even at his peak, Backlund was breaking records, and before him, Bruno and Billy Graham were the guy. After Backlund, it was Hogan. Andre was a special attraction and an outlier to the discussion.

My point still remains, unless you are saying Daniel Bryan is Andre the Giant?

[Warner2BruceTD]

He became a big star after beating Cena. Nothing since then has improve his stock. You said it was going to happen. It just hasn't. The baby has been put to rest.

You couldn't be me wrong. His reactions are better now, and keep getting stronger. He's getting mainstream reactions. He's clearly a bigger deal now then he was at the start of this. I honestly don't see how you aren't seeing it.

He's not mid-card as some of the GenPop'rs around the net would lead you to believe...but he's not headlining. Closing RAWs is awesome...but then being put 5th in the pecking order at WrestleMania kind of puts shit in perspective.

Cena is 4th in the pecking order.

Care to explain to me what that means?

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

You couldn't be me wrong. His reactions are better now, and keep getting stronger. He's getting mainstream reactions. He's clearly a bigger deal now then he was at the start of this. I honestly don't see how you aren't seeing it.


Cena is 4th in the pecking order.

Care to explain to me what that means?

A) He was getting the biggest pop of the night a year ago...now, with the focus on him, he's still getting the biggest pop of the night. Fandango'ing was mainstream...not sure what you're point is. Either way, its not really a tangible measure of someone being a bigger star...considering once again, he's still getting the same shit, and at the same spot on the card doing the same thing he was last summer. And you call me stubborn. You've tooted your horn so much on this subject and were off so much on you initial prediction, it truly is funny.

B) As for Cena...he is the top guy, but he hasn't headlined every WrestleMania either...outside of the shit with The Rock (the "hosted" WrestleMania where he headlined against The Miz as the set up to The Rock-Cena feud which headlined the next two), the last time he main evented Mania was when he faced Michaels (and I think we'd both agree that The Rock was the "star" of those three Manias).

With that said, Cena-Wyatt is a pretty fucking dumb match for Mania, too.

[s@ppisgod]

Nobody draws right out of the gate historically unless you are talking Hogan or something. I can't believe you have written him off as a draw based on his first run, which was against ORTON of all people (who managed to drive viewers away in DROVES on RAW this week against CENA).

No goal posts being moved. Just a complete lack of seeing the obvious from people obsessed with the title being the only thing that matters. They'll be time for the title later. Daniel Bryan is a bigger star today than he was in August. I'm not sure how you don't see crowd reactions or how crowds have forced them to change long term booking and not see it. And that's in spite of supposed bad booking all along the way, which I don't even think was as bad in reality as it looked on the surface at the time.

Punk/Trips was obvious since the RAW angle. As was Bryan/HBK. HBK said no. So what do you do? Hopefully not Sheamus. We'll see.

Yeah, but how is Brock vs. UT set in stone? They've jobbed out Brock and he's in the shit with Henry/Show. Nobody gives a fuck. UT has been off TV forever. Now UT is going to beat Brock and extend the streak before Brock leaves. Yeah, it's interesting. Kind of. But Bryan with either of those guys is 100x more intriguing. And useful.

[s@ppisgod]

I'm not one to interrupt a good pissing match, but the SS ending really did take some wind out of Bryan's sails. Not much, but it clearly took an out-of-nowhere Bray Wyatt feud (if you can even call the short program that) to get him over the hump. I think the non-finishes made the SS ending worse. But it was the same with Punk, only they let him have his night and let him leave for a whole week (!) to get the angle over. THEN they took a big runny dump on it.

[Kuzzy Powers]

There has been talk that The Ultimate Warrior may be working one more match as part of his new deal with WWE. Word being talked about backstage is Warrior vs Ryback, likely at WrestleMania XXX. As noted, it's believed the deal with Bill Goldberg is pretty much dead because of money issues.

[Guest]

Bryan/Sheamus being described as a "make good" for the dark match & 10 second gimmick.

"Make good" for who, exactly? They honest to good think people care about Sheamus.

So with everyone else set, and the Sting return likely happening, does this mean Danielson vs Sting? Sheamus may just be a placeholder in that report.