Brian Burke fired

[dave]

Not too sure I agree with that. The Leafs are better than they were and they have much better prospects than they did. The Leafs are close to a breakout.

Also, how does the "Detroit" model explain the Bruins, Kings, Blackhawks and to a lesser extent the Rangers success? I look at the Canadiens and see they are going the "Detroit" route and not having much success with it. The Habs can be pushed around and that is never a good thing in the playoffs. We saw what happened to the Canucks when you play too soft, and even Detroit is falling as they no longer have the grit they used to have like McCarty, Shannahan, Glichrist, LePointe, Draper, Chelios, Holstrom and have become an all skill team.

Don't get me going on the Canadiens, they're my damn team. But good post ssags.
But, in my opinion, speed and skill are more important than truculence in this era of NHL hockey. The Bruins had killer goaltending, the Kings too. Truculence didn't win their cups, IMO. Blackhawks? Honestly, not sure.
Skill, speed and great goaltending way more important than employing goons in your bottom six IMO.

But, again, I applaud your post. Nice response.

Where my Habs are concerned: they have made way too many cap mistakes.

Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque, giving Markov guaranteed money despite his injury history.

The Habs have been morons where the cap is concerned. I hope Bergevin can turn this around.

[ssags11]

Don't get me going on the Canadiens, they're my damn team. But good post ssags.
But, in my opinion, speed and skill are more important than truculence in this era of NHL hockey. The Bruins had killer goaltending, the Kings too. Truculence didn't win their cups, IMO. Blackhawks? Honestly, not sure.
Skill, speed and great goaltending way more important than employing goons in your bottom six IMO.

But, again, I applaud your post. Nice response.

The Hawks have some toughness in them. They have Carcillo, Oduya, Mayers, Bolland and Toews, Keith, Seabrook are a tough players. I wouldn't call them tough like a Philly built team but they don't get pushed around in the corners either.

The game has changed, very true. Fighting is not as important as it used to be. But look at the Bruins, they have 6 guys that can more than fight and handle whoever they fight. Also, all 6 of those guys have talent and skill too. Shawn Thornton is a good example of the new prototypical goon the NHL needs more of. He got talent to go along with those fighting skills he has. I believe you need those players on your team. Gone are the days of BGL but you still need a Thornton on your team too. In some media publications, Bruins and Rangers are considered the favorites going into this season. Both teams are very similarly built. Lots of grit and toughness with zero superstars. Yes, I know I guess Chara is a superstar but not in the classic sense.

[dave]

I absolutely think Chara is a superstar. Agreed, not in the classic sense. He dominates a game without traditional stats.

[leaffan]

At the end of the day, the Leafs are no better today than they were when Burke took over ... and an easy argument could be made that they're worst. Tyler Seguin is in Boston. The very franchise player Toronto needs.
I give Burke the Phaneuf trade ... he won that easily, but is Phaneuf a $6.5M franchise defenceman? No.

Burke is the Don Cherry of the current NHL. Rather than embrace the Detroit model of speed, skill and seeking out Euro talent in lower rounds, he's still about pugnaciousness or what-not. Those days are over.

Your first sentance is beyond wrong. Hell a lot of what you said is wrong.

When Burke first came to this team it was a straight up horror show and was basically the trail end of a team that was decimated by years of trading away first rounders for older players and a minor system which was fairly thin in youth talent. I think I had a post at one point outlining some of the hilariousness of early 2000's leaf trades especially recklesly sending first rounders for rentals. They usually had a decent AHL team though especially when the "saviour" Justin Pogge was still around.

The top 2 lines when Burke was hired were Jason Blake/Matt Stajan at Center, Alexei Ponikarovsky/Niklas Hagman at left and Nokolai Antropov/Lee Stempniak. I shudder even typing that. Goalies included an end of career Curtis Joseph and another saviour goalie in Vesa Toskala who ended up being a massive bust. The leafs also were playing Martin Gerber near the end.

Fast forward a bit and what you have now is a team built on speed and puck movers. The truculance days never really had time to arrive (although they are coming. A lot of burke draft picks will be coming up soon). The embrace the detroit model of speed and skill and seeking out Euro talent is hilarious because thats exactly what the leafs have done. Kulemin and Grabovski (not north american btw) are fairly fast although they don't match up against a healthy Lombardi (the leagues fastest skater).

[dave]

The Leafs are still a horror show and still not a playoff contender.

[ssags11]

I absolutely think Chara is a superstar. Agreed, not in the classic sense. He dominates a game without traditional stats.

I almost shit a brick when I found out Chara had his best statistical season last year. He is so awkward to watch, not very graceful at all. He is the poster child for a hall of famer making it in with absolutely shitty stats. Assuming he does make it in, I think he needs one more Norris and probably one more Cup. He has the first and second team selections with 5 so he is close. Being a Slovak and first Iron Curtain born and trained player to captain a team will be a big influence.

[dave]

IMO, Chara (despite the Pacioretty hit) is a first-ballot hall of famer.

[leaffan]

The Leafs are still a horror show and still not a playoff contender.

So instead of saying your wrong (like normal) this is your response. Cool story.

[dave]

So instead of saying your wrong (like normal) this is your response. Cool story.

So ... would you keep Burke on board?

[ssags11]

The Leafs are still a horror show and still not a playoff contender.

I dunno man, the Leafs are way better than 5 years ago. Burke has made some shrewd trades that have panned out for the Leafs. The Laffs are one goalie, one skilled winger and true number one center away from being a force again. Granted that might be alot but it's better than what they were.

Personally, and I will say it again, the league needs the Leafs, Habs, Rangers, Red Wings, Bruins and Blackhawks to be playoff teams year in and year out. They are the powerhouse money teams and for a healthy league, they all need to be doing well.

[dave]

Name the shrewd trades. Just curious.

[ssags11]

Lombardi, Fransson 2013 conditional pick for Lebda, Slaney. That solidified the Leafs backend. Getting rid of Toskala and Blake, I know Giguere didn't work out but he got rid of those horrible salaries. The Dino trade is not a bad one, in fact it was a pretty good one. Again, stabilizes that backline which defense wins Cups if you ask me.

[leaffan]

So ... would you keep Burke on board?

Easily yes. He was fired due to the new ownership group not liking his style basically and it had nothing to do with hockey operations. Frankly I think he would of been a perfect fit for an upcoming season dominated by a CBA he helped influence and the next offseason in which top UFA's like Getzlaf and Perry are quite familiar with him.

People seem to forget this was a team that at Feb. 1 last year was in the playoffs by a pretty good margin (albeint in 7th but still 7 or so points ahead of the 9th place team) and were rolling really well.

[dave]

Lombardi, Fransson 2013 conditional pick for Lebda, Slaney. That solidified the Leafs backend. Getting rid of Toskala and Blake, I know Giguere didn't work out but he got rid of those horrible salaries. The Dino trade is not a bad one, in fact it was a pretty good one. Again, stabilizes that backline which defense wins Cups if you ask me.

None of those trades make the Leafs a playoff team ... or even close.

[leaffan]

Lombardi, Fransson 2013 conditional pick for Lebda, Slaney. That solidified the Leafs backend. Getting rid of Toskala and Blake, I know Giguere didn't work out but he got rid of those horrible salaries. The Dino trade is not a bad one, in fact it was a pretty good one. Again, stabilizes that backline which defense wins Cups if you ask me.

I'll list them in a sec since I'm sitting around waiting for some work to finish up but there were some hilarious trades he's made and everytime he's seemingly made the right move outside of the kessel deal.