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Jimmy Snuka
Sgt Slaughter
Sid ViciousComment
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So then it's essentially impossible for an ECW guy to get enough votes (with exceptions being Dudleys I guess).
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Honestly though, who deserves it? Sabu gets token votes every year but never comes close.
I wouldn't vote Dudley's, especially when the modern tag team entries are Road Warriors, Freebirds, & Midnights. That's one high standard. When Rock n Roll Express & Fabulous Ones get in, we can MAYBE start to talk about the Dudley's. I still don't see it.
Tommy Dreamer, Sandman, Shane Douglas, Raven, Rob Van Dam to me these guys aren't even close. There are a million territory guys who have resumes that blow them away who will never get in.
I'd consider Sabu based on influence. He really did change wrestling.Comment
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I'd have the Steiners over the Dudley's every single time.
Luger was just kind of around after the Lex Express run, which was awful. Not entirely his fault, since they screwed up Summerslam. You don't go all that way and not let him win it. He made very little tangible impact on WCW after his big arrival. Hell, the only reason he got the title win over Hogan was because Bischoff wanted a ratings bump. Big no.
Nash had a very respectable career. But the Wrestling Observer crowd is not his people.
Vicious is kind of underrated IMO. He seems to be very quickly forgotten, but the guy was a big time spectacle for a number of years. Just never got a big run to take him from a main eventer to a star. A little less softball would have done wonders for his career, IMO.
Ultimate Warrior and Owen are, surprisingly, very similar in my mind. Both of them have big +'s in Owen's workrate and Warrior's big run in WWF. But the lack of longevity hurt both, to the point where I wouldn't put either in. Warrior dropped off the face of he earth maybe 2 years after maybe the biggest WM main event ever. And Owen had 1 notable feud his whole career, being the best feud of the 90's with Bret. But nothing else. His career was cut too short, and filled with too much jobber and comedy work to really make a good argument. He was one of the cutting edge workers in the early 90's, but that alone is not enough. Pillman is a much better case, involved in high profile feuds and legendary matches..
Slaughter, eh I wouldn't be against it.Last edited by s@ppisgod; 07-03-2013, 03:41 PM.Comment
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I agree that Ultimate Warrior's run was too short. Plenty of people comparable who won't ever get in.
Slaughter is a very interesting one for me. Would probably be in already if he didn't choose GI Joe over McMahon in 1984, because he was the #2 babyface behind Hogan and would have probably turned heel years earlier and had a big big program.
Same can be said for Snuka. Like Slaughter, was headliner in a lot of places, including WWF when Backlund was champ but really Snuka was the headliner for some of that period, good Japan runs, and was the #2 babyface when he quit in 1985, and probably would have turned heel at some point.
If you think about it, Orndorff probably got the Slaughter/Snuka spot in 1986. And look at the business that did, selling out Toronto and everywhere else, and while I like Orndorff, imagine how much better that would have been with Slaughter or Snuka, who were much bigger stars and lap him in charisma.
Man, Owen is tough one for me, it would be 100% workrate, plus the Bret feud. Really an innovative guy, his Japan stuff (particularly against Liger) was ahead of its time, same for his stuff in Calgary when he was lights years ahead, i'd really like to say yes, but then you have guys like Curt Hennig who were every bit the worker (although not as innovative) but Hennig had more runs on top.
The problem with Hennig, is he has the dubious distinction of the worst drawing feud during Hogan's peak. Some of that in unfair, because it still did well, and Hogan's run was at the back end. Also, Hennig was world champ right as AWA was starting to die, more bad timing, because that avalanche had already started and nobody was going to stop it. He drew with Lawler in Memphis during that period, but I mean, who didn't? As far as influence, Hennig is one of the most influential wrestlers of his era, look no further than a Dolph Ziggler match, or Shawn Stasiak, or Curtis Axel, or Rob Conway, or whoever else has tried to match his swagger & steal his gimmick over the years.
I can't see Owen getting in ahead of Hennig.Comment
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GI Joe made Slaughter a bigger star than the WWF could have ever done. Slaughter made the right move there.Comment
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Good point about Hennig. Pick one, Hennig vs. Pillman. Both had more noteworthy work than Hart, while being almost as good, if not maybe a little better in the ring.Comment
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I'm with Warner, I just can't put Owen in if you don't put Hennig in. I'd love to put both in just based off MY opinion but on actual facts, their workrate far outweighed any of the money they made (obviously). Is that enough? Does being a solid but not spectacular midcard to upper midcard workhorse merit a HOF berth?Comment
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Hennig over Pillman.
I think the Loose Cannon thing was the most fascinating & compelling thing I've ever seen in wrestling. But aside from that, I don't think Pillman stacks up to either guy imo. Owen's best matches smoke Pillman's. Owen was the top gaijin junior for New Japan for a time, and obviously had his WWE main event run. Pillman was never used as a top guy. Pillman had the Loose Cannon thing that captivated wrestling, and the Hollywood Blondes team which really only lasted a few months before WCW went full retard and broke them up based on one bad Clash rating. Take that away and he was a solid undercard babyface junior. He had a weird career, and to his credit found a way to make people think he was a bigger deal than he really was. He worked the fuck out of not only Bischoff, but also McMahon, who severely overpaid for him as a result of his brilliant scheme.Comment
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I think you are underrating Pillman's work during his early Flyin' Brian years...89-92...dare I say the third best worker in the company behind Flair and Steamboat.
I don't think the top work of Pillman and Owen is that far apart. A ton of Owen's best stuff comes against great workers. I can't look at Owen's career and say he made chicken salad out of chicken shit like Pillman did against Luger, Zenk, and Mark Mero.
Pillman is a no from me...I just think you're underrating his early ring work, which was fucking good and IN THE 'STATES, innovative. Pillman was doing shit in the States that was being done overseas before it got popular over here and a lot of stars broke through.Comment
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Yeah, but that's why the comparison works. Owen/Pillman/Hennig all spent the majority of their careers as mid-careers for the big 2. I agree with Larry, Pillman's work pre-Blondes was fantastic. He was one of the top workers in America at that time IMO. The five star match with Luger, a lot of solid work with bit players, then the farther up he got in the card, the more deteriorated he was in the ring until he got a huge break with Pillman/Austin when he was on 1 foot. Great transformation as a guy who went from a great in-ring talent who really wasn't a good talker, to one of the most interesting guys in the business, who couldn't wrestle a full match to save his life.
Larry, same question. Pillman or Hennig? Empire too, if you're still in here.
Hennig is a no for me, but I enjoyed the shit out of his work. His stuff with Bret was the most interesting in-ring stuff until Hart vs. Hart to me. It's a shame that they didn't let Owen go more with his "high-risk maneuvers!!" with Bret, but I understand you can't have the heel wow'ing the audience in 1994...Comment
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