Coyotes file for bankruptcy protection

[killgod]

Which part was too difficult for you to understand?

probably the part i bolded.

you do know that toronto and montreal are canadian cities right?

toronto has been in the green the past decade

montreal has been in the green in all but on season in the last decade

vancouver has been in the green or even (one year) in the past 6 seasons

edmonton has been green or even in 9 of the past 10 seasons

ottawa has been green or even in the past 4 seasons

calgary has been green or even in 4 of the 5 past seasons



again I say

wut

[Senser81]

probably the part i bolded.

you do know that toronto and montreal are canadian cities right?

toronto has been in the green the past decade

montreal has been in the green in all but on season in the last decade

vancouver has been in the green or even (one year) in the past 6 seasons

edmonton has been green or even in 9 of the past 10 seasons

ottawa has been green or even in the past 4 seasons

calgary has been green or even in 4 of the 5 past seasons



again I say

wut

Gee, Montreal and Toronto are Canadian cities? Thanks. I thought Winnipeg and Quebec City were also Canadian cities. My bad.

Good to know that you saying "Calgary has been green or even in 4 of the 5 past seasons" is somehow relevant to Canadian tax law. Didn't know that 'even' means 'consistently profitable', either. And those remaining Canadian teams have been tearing up the NHL thanks to their huge profit margin, no?

Do you follow hockey at all? Just curious. Or maybe you were just comatose from 1995-2005.

[killgod]

Gee, Montreal and Toronto are Canadian cities? Thanks. I thought Winnipeg and Quebec City were also Canadian cities. My bad.

Good to know that you saying "Calgary has been green or even in 4 of the 5 past seasons" is somehow relevant to Canadian tax law. Didn't know that 'even' means 'profitable', either. And those remaining Canadian teams have been tearing up the NHL thanks to their huge profit margin, while

Do you follow hockey at all? Just curious. Or maybe you were just comatose from 1995-2005.

I'm not disputing tax law. Did you fail to notice my not so subtle hint that I was commenting on you saying it's impossible to be consistently profitable as a Canadian hockey franchise. Oh no, you didn't.

I didn't realize it was 1999, last time I checked it was 2009 and while some of these teams weren't doing well during THAT time, things have changed.

Do you always live in the past? Just curious. Or maybe you were comatose from 2005-now

[Senser81]

I'm not disputing tax law. Did you fail to notice my not so subtle hint that I was commenting on you saying it's impossible to be consistently profitable as a Canadian hockey franchise. Oh no, you didn't.

I didn't realize it was 1999, last time I checked it was 2009 and while some of these teams weren't doing well during THAT time, things have changed.

Do you always live in the past? Just curious. Or maybe you were comatose from 2005-now

Again, I didn't know that 'even' means 'consistently profitable'. I also didn't know that because you type something that makes it fact. And maybe I was wrong...did Quebec secede from Canada and I missed it? Or is Quebec City still part of Canada?

Where are you finding your profit numbers?

[killgod]

Again, I didn't know that 'even' means 'consistently profitable'. I also didn't know that because you type something that makes it fact. And maybe I was wrong...did Quebec secede from Canada and I missed it? Or is Quebec City still part of Canada?

So lets see here...tax law, teams fleeing Canada, remaining Canadian teams sucking...yeah, you must be right.

I'm arguing your one statement. I don't care for your opinions on Canadian Tax Law or Canadian teams 'sucking'.

I gathered my information from forbes, I'm not spewing out things off the top of my head.

The locker room is slow today I'm guessing?

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

exactly.

I personally think that there shouldn't be any teams south of kentucky and west of the mississippi, unless the city / state has a good winter season, the southern teams don't have a following at all.

I hate living in FL not being able to watch the fucking Panthers or Lightning, because they aren't on regular tv.

Well, i hated it until i got Center Ice. lol.

Dude, I can watch 95% of the Panthers games.

They are FSN-Florida.

Lightening games are on SunSports.

Some southern teams have a following.

Tampa when they were winning. Florida when they were in Dade County. Carolina has a strong following. San Jose speaks for itself.

Florida now that they are in east bumfuck, Florida, Atlanta, Nashville, Phoenix are areas that just don't get any love.

I agree with killgod...teams need to get into other more viable areas...Hamilton, Winnipeg, Quebec...maybe London in Canada. Hartford might be another. Supposedly Kansas City is a viable market.

[Ravin]

You are trying to bring Quebec City and Winnipeg into this? Both teams came from the former World Hockey Association and got killed when they got brought into the NHL. Winnipeg hasn't had a team since 1996 (13 years ago) and Quebec hasn't had one since 1995. Both markets were picked as WHA cities because they had no NHL team. They are very small hockey markets compared to the others.

If you want to talk economy, at least talk about the proper time we are in, and not things that happened 13 years ago.

[killgod]

You are trying to bring Quebec City and Winnipeg into this? Both teams came from the former World Hockey Association and got killed when they got brought into the NHL. Winnipeg hasn't had a team since 1996 (13 years ago) and Quebec hasn't had one since 1995. Both markets were picked as WHA cities because they had no NHL team. They are very small hockey markets compared to the others.

If you want to talk economy, at least talk about the proper time we are in, and not things that happened 13 years ago.

what's with forum lifers like blitz/senser etc coming to hockey threads when they got no one good to rip on in the locker room?

:lilbored:

[Ravin]

I honestly think they need to put it somewhere else besides Hamilton. London or Kitchener I think is the best bet. I remember reading a report that said Hamilton will soon start to fall apart once the steel industry takes a shitter. A lot of working class people there, and you have to look at Toronto and Detroit as an example of how ticket prices might go since the team would be right in the middle of them both. I'd expect high prices.

[killgod]

I honestly think they need to put it somewhere else besides Hamilton. London or Kitchener I think is the best bet. I remember reading a report that said Hamilton will soon start to fall apart once the steel industry takes a shitter. A lot of working class people there, and you have to look at Toronto and Detroit as an example of how ticket prices might go since the team would be right in the middle of them both. I'd expect high prices.

I think the main reason Hamilton is attractive is that it's just outside of the GTA.

All the fans in Milton/Missisauga/Burlington/Oakville/etc

We're talkin upwards of 1.5 Million people.

I'm sure many of the hockey fans in these towns/cities can't get to Leaf games due to the ridiculous pricing and unavailibility of tickets.

With a team in Hamilton (which is a bit shorter of a drive than downtown Toronto, less traffic too) they have another option to see all the NHL stars they want to see.

Now if this club were to have Toronto type pricing, ugh. But I'm betting tickets will be easier to come by for the first while.


I'd love to see more live hockey, I just can't bring myself to drop 100 bucks on nosebleeds in the ACC......while paying 10+ for a beer.

[Ravin]

what's with forum lifers like blitz/senser etc coming to hockey threads when they got no one good to rip on in the locker room?

:lilbored:

Fuck I don't know. The only ripping that goes on here is me vs you, and these hockey noobs are trying to cut in on our action. I don't go into their US political economy shit because I don't know shit about it. Wish they would do the same and simply....

[Ravin]

I think the main reason Hamilton is attractive is that it's just outside of the GTA.

All the fans in Milton/Missisauga/Burlington/Oakville/etc

We're talkin upwards of 1.5 Million people.

I'm sure many of the hockey fans in these towns/cities can't get to Leaf games due to the ridiculous pricing and unavailibility of tickets.

With a team in Hamilton (which is a bit shorter of a drive than downtown Toronto, less traffic too) they have another option to see all the NHL stars they want to see.

Now if this club were to have Toronto type pricing, ugh. But I'm betting tickets will be easier to come by for the first while.


I'd love to see more live hockey, I just can't bring myself to drop 100 bucks on nosebleeds in the ACC......while paying 10+ for a beer.

You need to drop like $200-400 to see a good game from a good seat. My half of the rent was $445 a month, and I couldn't ever bring myself to pay that much to see a three hour hockey game, when I could live in my apartment for another month.

It is just sad that the only NHL game I have seen was The Coyotes vs Calgary out in Alberta. It cost me $90, and included a 3hr bus ride from Lake Louise to Calgary, ticket to the game (upper deck, but still not bad) and 3hr return trip bus.

[Apocalypse]

Dude, I can watch 95% of the Panthers games.

They are FSN-Florida.

Lightening games are on SunSports.

Some southern teams have a following.

Tampa when they were winning. Florida when they were in Dade County. Carolina has a strong following. San Jose speaks for itself.

Florida now that they are in east bumfuck, Florida, Atlanta, Nashville, Phoenix are areas that just don't get any love.

I agree with killgod...teams need to get into other more viable areas...Hamilton, Winnipeg, Quebec...maybe London in Canada. Hartford might be another. Supposedly Kansas City is a viable market.

Yeah, like, i'm in Vero and i got direct tv and got the package that had all of the FSN channels, so i could watch Panthers and Lightning games, but when it came to watching them, they were blacked out, blah blah i called up and they said that you have to live in the area of the game, and so i'm like wtf fuck you i'll get Center Ice, so i've watched all the games, but..

But yes some teams have a following. But some isn't good enough, and those some aren't doing to well.

Idk it seems like there's a consensus among us that the northeast and some canadian cities should get teams, either by expansion or relocation, as it would boost the NHLs profits and all that, make the league better in the long run than trying to fight with teams (Coyotes) on whether they're going to be sold and relocated, or kept in a city that can't support them and and a front office that didn't care and ran the team into the ground.

[Senser81]

I'm arguing your one statement. I don't care for your opinions on Canadian Tax Law or Canadian teams 'sucking'.

I gathered my information from forbes, I'm not spewing out things off the top of my head.

You seemed to have very specific information...you had the past 10 years of financial info for Edmonton, for example. Just wondering where you found that, because I couldn't find anything on the web other than the city of Toronto basically funnels money in to their team. If you think every Canadian city would follow suit if they were given an NHL team, then...

[Apocalypse]

Judge rejects sale of Coyotes, move to Canada

GLENDALE, Ariz. (AP)—Professional hockey will live on in the desert, at least for a while.

Billionaire Jim Balsillie failed in his bid to have a bankruptcy court judge order the Phoenix Coyotes sold to him and, over the NHL’s objection, moved to Hamilton, Ontario. His downfall was his self-imposed June 29 deadline for completing the deal.

Redfield T. Baum, chief judge of the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Phoenix, concluded in a 21-page ruling Monday there wasn’t “sufficient time” to resolve the case by then.

The only one who didn’t see it as a defeat for Balsillie and a victory for the NHL was Balsillie himself.

“We’re still here,” Balsillie spokesman Bill Walker said, contending there was still an opportunity for the NHL and Balsillie to agree on moving the franchise to Canada.

At a news conference in Toronto on Tuesday, Balsillie’s intentions remained unchanged.

“He’s committed to Hamilton, he’s committed to Copps Coliseum,” Walker said. “He just sees this as another day at work, another day at the office.”

Balsillie is willing to negotiate with the NHL on bringing the Coyotes to Hamilton but the league has not approached him, Balsillie lawyer Richard Rodier said from Toronto. The lawyer added that the next step was to speak to Jerry Moyes, the Coyotes’ majority owner.

The NHL, however, prepared to move ahead to find a buyer who would keep the team in Arizona. Any sale would have to be through bankruptcy court, where Balsillie had been the lone bidder.

“We’re pleased the court recognized the validity of league rules and our ability to apply them in a reasonable fashion,” NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Monday. “We will turn our attention now toward helping to facilitate an orderly sales process that will produce a local buyer who is committed to making the Coyotes’ franchise viable and successful in the Phoenix-Glendale area. We are confident that we will be able to find such a buyer for the Coyotes and that the claims of legitimate creditors will be addressed.”

The NHL has said it would relocate the team if no suitable ownership in Arizona is found. The league says four parties have filed preliminary applications to investigate purchasing the team and keeping it in Arizona. One of them is Jerry Reinsdorf, owner of baseball’s Chicago White Sox and the NBA’s Chicago Bulls.

The Coyotes have lost more than $300 million since the franchise moved from Winnipeg, Manitoba, in 1996, and at least $36 million each of the last three seasons.

Any bid to keep the team in Arizona would be far less than the $212.5 million Balsillie had offered, contingent on moving the franchise to Hamilton. Last fall, Forbes magazine said the Coyotes were the least valuable franchise in the NHL, at $142 million. That would mean much less for Moyes, who says he has $300 million invested and would have recouped $100 million in the sale to Balsillie.

At Jobing.com Arena in Glendale on Monday night, Coyotes president Doug Moss called this a “great day for our fans, for our partners the city of Glendale, and we’re really gratified we can start the next chapter of the Phoenix Coyotes right here in Glendale.”

But Balsillie, who has failed in two other bids to buy NHL teams, refused to concede.

“We look forward to hearing from the NHL soon on its view of our relocation application and an appropriate relocation fee, so as to allow the court to determine if that fee is reasonable,” Walker said Monday. “We still think there is enough time for the NHL to approve Mr. Balsillie’s application and move the team to Hamilton by September.”

Baum shot down the claim by Moyes and Balsillie that failure to allow the team to move would violate antitrust law.

“This court cannot find that antitrust law, as applicable nonbankruptcy law, permits the sale free and clear of the relocation rights of the NHL,” Baum wrote.

An antitrust claim requires a “bona fide dispute,” but there is none because Balsillie only sought the NHL’s permission to relocate the franchise after it was brought up in court, Baum wrote.

Baum also rejected arguments by Moyes and Balsillie that while assuming the contract the Coyotes have with the NHL, they can disregard the portion of the agreement that requires the games be played in Glendale.

The judge compared that claim to “a purchaser of a bankrupt franchise in a remote location asserting that it can be relocated far from its original agreed site to a highly valuable location, for example New York City’s Times Square.”

Baum said that because he was rejecting the motion, he need not rule at this time on whether Moyes and Balsillie could void Glendale’s lease. The city, which had claimed nearly $795 million in damages if the Coyotes had moved, said it was pleased.

“Clearly the court recognized the significance of these issues and the unique interests of the City of Glendale and its taxpayers,” the city said in a statement. “The court based its decision on the law and facts and not on countless rumors and innuendo regarding this matter."

Just released...