2nd best receiver all time, from 2008

[ram29jackson]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=3309223

known retired players were asked to rate them

All 10 receivers put up numbers that ranked them among the top producers of their eras. But panelists unanimously discounted raw statistics as a meaningful tool. They explained how changes in the game made the number of receptions less relevant than ever. They placed more value on touchdowns and yards per reception. They also singled out toughness as a leading characteristic of the great ones

An exhaustive analysis of the panelists' rankings, supplemented by more than six hours of interviews, gave New England's Randy Moss a slight edge over Green Bay legend Don Hutson for the second overall spot. Michael Irvin was fourth, followed by Paul Warfield, Charley Taylor, Steve Largent, Cris Carter, Terrell Owens and Marvin Harrison

You reach a certain point and it's hard to do," said Berry, the NFL's career leader in receptions and receiving yards when he retired from the Baltimore Colts in 1967. "I've seen too many great ones, and it's hard to find a standard."

3. DON HUTSON
Career: Played for Packers from 1935-45. Held 18 NFL records when he retired. Elected to Hall of Fame in 1963.
Quick quote: "Lean and swift, and boy, he could catch the heck out of it." -- Hall of Famer Berry, who studied films of Hutson in detail

Hutson story

 

The stadium in Milwaukee's State Fair Park was a cavernous place with ramshackle bleachers. On a bright Indian summer Sunday, 25,500 showed up to see two title contenders knock heads. The Packers were defending NFL champs, and coach Curly Lambeau was breaking in a new halfback (the position from which most passes were thrown in the '30s and '40s), a young fellow named Roy McKay. The Packers' passing game figured to be tested by the Lions, who had one of the league's toughest defenses. Detroit scored first, five seconds into the second quarter, to go up 7-0. Then McKay went to work with the best player who ever lived.

Hutson was football's DiMaggio, a graceful runner who never looked as if he was trying hard. He also had some sprinter in him. At Alabama he had run the 100-yard dash in 9.8 seconds. The grainy, fluttering film I've seen of Hutson shows a 6'1" man, much taller than most of the defensive backs who covered him. But his leather helmet rode high on his head, making him appear a little nerdy.

You'd never know by listening to Hutson how good he was. He hated talking about himself. But after this game he wouldn't have to. Following the Lions' touchdown, the Packers started at their own 41. On first down Hutson juked Detroit's left cornerback, Art Van Tone, and got two steps on him. McKay's 59-yard scoring pass was perfect—though it didn't have to be—and hit Hutson in effortless stride at the Lions' 40 as he glided to the end zone. Hutson, who at various times in his career was a kicker, defensive end and safety, kicked the extra point. The Packers scored another touchdown on their next drive, and Hutson added the PAT.

Lions coach Gus Dorais then assigned a second defensive back, second-year man Bob Sneddon, to assist Van Tone in shadowing Hutson. A few plays later Hutson blew by Van Tone, who was guarding against a short pass, then turned around Sneddon, who was backpedaling to cover the bomb. Sneddon trailed Hutson by a clear step as the receiver reached the Detroit 15, and McKay's rainbow went over Sneddon's hands and into Hutson's for his second touchdown of the quarter. He kicked another extra point.

A Packers interception on the next Detroit snap gave Green Bay the ball at the Lions' 17. This time, inexplicably, Dorais put Sneddon man-to-man on Hutson. Sneddon stayed with Hutson to the goal line, but the acrobatic receiver made a leaping catch for a touchdown. Sneddon sank to his knees and began punching the turf. Finally, in the last minute of the quarter, McKay lofted one more touchdown pass to Hutson, this time from the Detroit six.

Mercifully, halftime came, with Green Bay up 41-7. Hutson had scored 29 points (four touchdowns, five extra points) in 13 minutes, still an NFL record for points in a quarter. At game's end, a 57-21 final, Dorais looked shell-shocked. "The game can be summed up in three words," he said. "Too much Hutson

5. PAUL WARFIELD
Career: Played for Browns, Dolphins from 1964-77. Averaged 20.1 yards per catch. Elected to Hall of Fame in 1983.
Quick quote: "Warfield was a lot like Charlie Joiner. Every step meant something to those guys. Warfield got into his route and it was like somebody falling off the face of the earth. That's how quick he could be into it." -- Hall of Fame safety Houston

Among those left on the outside, Art Monk, Berry and James Lofton came closest to cracking the top 10.

 

[ram29jackson]

Top 10 WRs of All Time
Raymond Berry, Boyd Dowler, Mike Holmgren, Ken Houston, Warren Moon, Keyshawn Johnson and Ted Thompson helped ESPN.com evaluate the best wide receivers in NFL history. ESPN.com weighed their contributions, balancing rankings with anecdotal evidence, to create the following list. (Click here for ZOOM Gallery.)

1. JERRY RICE
Career: Played for 49ers, Raiders and Seahawks from 1985-2004. Holds NFL records for receptions (1,549), receiving yards (22,895), TD receptions (197), TDs (207).
Quick quote: "Jerry had a tremendous combination of speed, size, toughness, smarts." -- Holmgren, Rice's offensive coordinator in San Francisco

2. RANDY MOSS
Career: Set NFL record with 23 TD catches last season with Patriots.
Quick quote: "Randy Moss catches the ball so well almost without looking at it sometimes. He is scary physically." -- Boyd Dowler, retired scout and former NFL receiver.

3. DON HUTSON
Career: Played for Packers from 1935-45. Held 18 NFL records when he retired. Elected to Hall of Fame in 1963.
Quick quote: "Lean and swift, and boy, he could catch the heck out of it." -- Hall of Famer Berry, who studied films of Hutson in detail.

4. MICHAEL IRVIN
Career: Played for Cowboys from 1988-99. Had 750 career receptions for 11,904 yards. Elected to Hall of Fame in 2007.
Quick quote: "People might not like some of the other things, but when he was on those stripes, he was as competitive as there is." -- Hall of Fame QB Moon

5. PAUL WARFIELD
Career: Played for Browns, Dolphins from 1964-77. Averaged 20.1 yards per catch. Elected to Hall of Fame in 1983.
Quick quote: "Warfield was a lot like Charlie Joiner. Every step meant something to those guys. Warfield got into his route and it was like somebody falling off the face of the earth. That's how quick he could be into it." -- Hall of Fame safety Houston

6. CHARLEY TAYLOR
Career: Played for Redskins 1964-77. All-time leading receiver with 649 catches for 9,110 yards when he retired. Elected to Hall of Fame in 1984.
Quick quote: "Those types of athletes who played more than one position --- Charley Taylor -- are worth the price of admission just to see them line up. That is an athlete right there, a subject in itself." -- Berry

7. STEVE LARGENT
Career: Played for Seahawks from 1976-89. Had 819 catches, 13,089 yards, 100 TDs. Elected to Hall of Fame in 1995.
Quick quote: "He was as crafty as anybody I could recall. He wasn't a big guy, but he knew exactly how to lean on people and his hands were unbelievable." -- Packers GM Ted Thompson

8. CRIS CARTER
Career: Played for Eagles, Vikings, Dolphins from 1987-2002. Had 13,899 yards receiving, 130 TD receptions.
Quick quote: "I've never been around a guy as competitive as he is. He is so confident. He was a hard worker, which I enjoyed because whatever I got in practice, I knew that's I was going to get in the game." -- Moon

9. TERRELL OWENS
Career: Has 129 TD receptions in career with 49ers, Eagles, Cowboys.
Quick quote: "My biggest knock on him is he drops too many balls, but he makes a lot of big plays and he's as good as there is after the catch and he makes difficult catches." -- Moon

10. MARVIN HARRISON
Career: Has spent entire 12-yard career with Colts. Set NFL record with 143 receptions in 2002.
Quick quote: "Of all the things that impresses me, it's how he goes about his job, how he goes about his business. He's not a fanfare guy. He's just a football player." -- Holmgren

From left, Hall of Famers Paul Warfield and Charley Taylor played in an era when passing was not as prevalent. Former Cowboy Michael Irvin, also in the Hall of Fame, earned high marks from ESPN.com panelists for his toughness.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

To be clear there's a drop off after no.3 no matter what.
Countdown to Senser flipping over no4 and telling me about Sterling again.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I have huge issues with this entire list after #3.

Michael Irvin is not even close to being the fourth best WR of all time. Not even close.

I can't put Owens in the Top 10 when he never saw a locker room he couldn't find a way to get kicked out of. Plus he had hands of stone.

Didn't Raymond Berry retire with every NFL record? How is he not on here? With that said, Art Monk retired with multiple records and I wouldn't have him anywhere near this list.

 

[ram29jackson]

To be clear there's a drop off after no.3 no matter what.
Countdown to Senser flipping over no4 and telling me about Sterling again.

I still think its a pretty exotic list considering the knowledgeable football purists making it. Would like to see the rest if it were top 20

still surprised Moss is 2nd but they did say he barely made second over Hutson

 

[Hasselbeck]

I can't put Owens in the Top 10 when he never saw a locker room he couldn't find a way to get kicked out of. Plus he had hands of stone.

Hands of stone and still finished 2nd all-time in yards, 3rd all-time in touchdowns.

Was he a cock? Absolutely.. but that comes with the position. There are more divas than saints .. saying Owens isn't a Top 10 WR is laughable. He's easily Top 5.. and IMO Top 3 at the worst.

I'd go Rice, Moss, Owens in that order right now... with Calvin Johnson having potential to move up to 2nd when it's all said and done.

 

[ram29jackson]

Hands of stone and still finished 2nd all-time in yards, 3rd all-time in touchdowns.

Was he a cock? Absolutely.. but that comes with the position. There are more divas than saints .. saying Owens isn't a Top 10 WR is laughable. He's easily Top 5.. and IMO Top 3 at the worst.

I'd go Rice, Moss, Owens in that order right now... with Calvin Johnson having potential to move up to 2nd when it's all said and done.

yards per catch and touchdowns he obviously failed at though. His stone hands are exactly why he aint up there

 

[Aso]

Interesting that Terrell Owens only made 6 pro bowls.

Edit: nvm Randy Moss only had 6 as well.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Surprised somebody like James Lofton gets mentioned, but no Lance Alworth.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlwoLa00.htm

 

[Derrville]

Great list

 

[ram29jackson]

Surprised somebody like James Lofton gets mentioned, but no Lance Alworth.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlwoLa00.htm

those names are mentioned in the Article as well.

 

[ram29jackson]

I have huge issues with this entire list after #3.

Michael Irvin is not even close to being the fourth best WR of all time. Not even close.

I can't put Owens in the Top 10 when he never saw a locker room he couldn't find a way to get kicked out of. Plus he had hands of stone.

Didn't Raymond Berry retire with every NFL record? How is he not on here? With that said, Art Monk retired with multiple records and I wouldn't have him anywhere near this list.

read the article, it covers your same thoughts

 

[Hasselbeck]

yards per catch and touchdowns he obviously failed at though. His stone hands are exactly why he aint up there

3rd all-time in touchdowns means he failed?

:walker:

He trails only Rice and Moss in that statistic.. and is only behind Moss by 3 .. all that with "stone" hands.

Not to mention he did a lot of this when the rules still allowed DB's to defend a lot more physical past 5 yards.

If you want to criticize him for being a diva and acting like a spoiled child at every stop early in his career - sure. But that doesn't change the fact he was an elite WR.

 

[buckeye]

Monk? Harrison (easily ahead of TO)?, Largent?....

Personally wouldn't even consider T.O. for the HOF. Great talent was wasted due to his enormous ego.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[ram29jackson]

3rd all-time in touchdowns means he failed?

:walker:

He trails only Rice and Moss in that statistic.. and is only behind Moss by 3 .. all that with "stone" hands.

Not to mention he did a lot of this when the rules still allowed DB's to defend a lot more physical past 5 yards.

If you want to criticize him for being a diva and acted like a spoiled child at every stop early in his career - sure. But that doesn't change the fact he was an elite WR.

I simply just mean in relation to who's ahead of him in this particular rating by certain people.

 

[Senser81]

To be clear there's a drop off after no.3 no matter what.
Countdown to Senser flipping over no4 and telling me about Sterling again.

Definitely an interesting list. Irvin being at #4 is the most noticeable thing...I would be fine with Irvin being nowhere near the top 10. Warfield has 20 more TDs than Irvin on 325 less receptions. Irvin doesn't have the playmaking ability of most of the other top 10 WRs, and he doesn't have the longevity or production of the others.

My other qualm is that Lance Alworth is not on the list. I would probably put him at #4 in place of Irvin. The article's mention of Alworth and Maynard excelling due to the bad defenses of the early days of the AFL is wrong. Both were still putting up huge numbers in the latter days of the AFL, when the AFL defenses were superior to the NFL defenses.

Owens is always hard to rate. In terms of producton, you probably have to put him in the top 10. He was such a freakish athlete, perhaps even more so than Moss because Owens retained his durability while running over people. All Moss had to do was retain his speed to be effective.

Guys like Berry and Charlie Joiner contributed a lot to the development of the passing game in general. Berry made it a scientific study as both a player and coach, and Don Coryell would confer with Joiner about passing routes as he refined his offense for the NFL. Its hard to quantify such things. But I don't know if I would put either in my top 10. The article said that a panelist put Joiner at #2 (assume it was Holmgren), which I just can't agree with.

Overall, I'd probably have a lot of these guys in my top 10. A good list.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

For me, I don't care how may catches or yards Owens has, because he never played for a coach that didn't eventually want him out of his locker room, and never played with a QB who eventually didn't like him. He never played for a team that couldn't wait to get rid of him, and that tells me a better story than his numbers. I can pretty easily come up with 10 guys i'd rather split wide who will be just as productive while also being coachable & being a good teammate. Plenty of athletes are unlikable assholes, but Owens is a rare case of a guy who was always a massive distraction to the point that every team he played for thought he wasn't worth the trouble.

Not a top ten WR.

 

[Senser81]

For me, I don't care how may catches or yards Owens has, because he never played for a coach that didn't eventually want him out of his locker room, and never played with a QB who eventually didn't like him. He never played for a team that couldn't wait to get rid of him, and that tells me a better story than his numbers. I can pretty easily come up with 10 guys i'd rather split wide who will be just as productive while also being coachable & being a good teammate. Plenty of athletes are unlikable assholes, but Owens is a rare case of a guy who was always a massive distraction to the point that every team he played for thought he wasn't worth the trouble.

Not a top ten WR.

I agree. I wouldn't have Owens in my personal top 10, because if I were a GM I wouldn't want him on my team. Guys can be jerks and not be a distraction (I think Randy Moss qualifies), but Owens always crossed the line. But my main issue with Owens is that for as big and tough as he was, he was very unreliable over the middle. I don't know if he just had bad hands or if he heard footsteps, but that is one area in which guys like Irvin and Carter (and even Harrison) are superior to Owens.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I agree. I wouldn't have Owens in my personal top 10, because if I were a GM I wouldn't want him on my team. Guys can be jerks and not be a distraction (I think Randy Moss qualifies), but Owens always crossed the line. But my main issue with Owens is that for as big and tough as he was, he was very unreliable over the middle. I don't know if he just had bad hands or if he heard footsteps, but that is one area in which guys like Irvin and Carter (and even Harrison) are superior to Owens.

Owens "alligator arms" became such an issue that teams eventually just simply stopped using him over the middle. For a big, strong man, he wasn't very tough (mentally or physically).

He's a very weird case. He amassed a ton of production, yet was a very flawed player.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

As for Michael Irvin, I know this was written in 2008, but even for his style of WR, i'd take Andre Johnson over Irvin without even thinking twice about it. Far superior player. And i'm not even sure i'd have Johnson in my Top Ten.

Also, obviously Calvin Johnson has to be on this list somewhere.