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[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Strong argument.

:rudi:

Common sense is the argument. If you think Curry > Wade, you probably have Downs.

 

[FirstTimer]

Common sense is the argument. If you think Curry > Wade, you probably have Downs.

Curry had a better season.

Much like the best player doesn't always win MVP it's not impossible for one player to be viewed as better than another one yet the "worse" player has a better year and gets an award.

But good stuff.

Thanks for the input!

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Curry had a better season? wut?

Curry went 23/7/4 at 21.34 PER as a #1.
Wade went 21/5/5 at 24.04 PER as a #2.

Curry isn't even in Wade's sport as a defender.

Like I said, you got Downs if you think Curry is better.

:looza:

 

[FedEx227]

Again, the difference between Wade and Curry on defense isn't as big as you guys are making it.

DefRTG (Measures a team's points allowed per 100 possessions. On a player level this statistic is team points allowed per 100 possessions while he is on court.)

Wade: 99.4
Curry: 103.8

Again, yes, Wade is better. But let's get off the "Curry isn't even in Wade's league". Wade isn't even in "old" Wade's league anymore.

 

[FirstTimer]

Curry had a better season? wut?

Curry went 23/7/4 at 21.34 PER as a #1.
Wade went 21/5/5 at 24.04 PER as a #2.

Curry isn't even in Wade's sport as a defender.

Like I said, you got Downs if you think Curry is better.

:looza:

Oh cool.One stat. PER. Pretty much every other stat gives the advantage to CUrry with the exception of some thin advantages in WS/48 and defensive metrics.

And I'm sure Wade's efficiency isn't helped at all by getting to play off James. Nah. No way.

For fuck sakes this section sucks.

 

[FedEx227]

Wade

OffRtg: 112.3
DefRtg: 99.4
NetRtg: 13.0%
eFG%: 52.8%
TS%: 57.1%

Curry

OffRtg: 106.2
DefRtg: 103.8
NetRtg: 2.4%
eFG%: 54.9%
TS%: 58.9

Hard to say who had the better season. From an on-court standpoint (what their team did when he was on/off the court) Wade had a much better season than Curry. That's helped out by Wade's defense definitely. From an efficiency standpoint Curry was far better than Wade. A lot of that is propped up by how many threes he took (and made) whereas Wade likes to live with long twos which as we know is the most inefficient/worst shot in the NBA.

I don't know. It's a toss up for me. Don't have a strong feeling on either end.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Again, the difference between Wade and Curry on defense isn't as big as you guys are making it.

DefRTG (Measures a team's points allowed per 100 possessions. On a player level this statistic is team points allowed per 100 possessions while he is on court.)

Wade: 99.4
Curry: 103.8

Again, yes, Wade is better. But let's get off the "Curry isn't even in Wade's league". Wade isn't even in "old" Wade's league anymore.

That difference in that 4.4 points per game is huge.

 

[FirstTimer]

Wade

OffRtg: 112.3
DefRtg: 99.4
NetRtg: 13.0%
eFG%: 52.8%
TS%: 57.1%

Curry

OffRtg: 106.2
DefRtg: 103.8
NetRtg: 2.4%
eFG%: 54.9%
TS%: 58.9

Hard to say who had the better season. From an on-court standpoint (what their team did when he was on/off the court) Wade had a much better season than Curry. That's helped out by Wade's defense definitely. From an efficiency standpoint Curry was far better than Wade. A lot of that is propped up by how many threes he took (and made) whereas Wade likes to live with long twos which as we know is the most inefficient/worst shot in the NBA.

I don't know. It's a toss up for me. Don't have a strong feeling on either end.

Where did you get the ORTG/DRTG from? PBRef has Curry at 115/107 and Wade at 112/103

 

[ralaw]

Wade>Curry

How many rings Curry got? Nuff' said.

 

[FedEx227]

That difference in that 4.4 points per game is huge.

Yes and no. Remember it's not an actual "game". It's just measured out to 100 possessions. Most NBA teams hover around 95 possessions per game, so don't assume those RTGs are actual in-game points.

The scale is pretty big as well, 4.4 difference in DefRtg isn't that ridiculous. Look at this example: Tony Allen is at 94.3 and LeBron is 99.3. Would you consider Tony Allen in a different league defensively than LeBron James?

 

[FedEx227]

Where did you get the ORTG/DRTG from? PBRef has Curry at 115/107 and Wade at 112/103

NBA.com/Stats: http://stats.nba.com/

I don't really use PBRef anymore since NBA basically is giving you their SAP data.

 

[FedEx227]

Wade>Curry

How many rings Curry got? Nuff' said.

Take it to the NFL section, bub.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Yes and no. Remember it's not an actual "game". It's just measured out to 100 possessions. The scale is pretty big as well, 4.4 difference in DefRtg isn't that ridiculous.

Look at this example: Tony Allen is at 94.3 and LeBron is 99.3. Would you consider Tony Allen in a different league defensively than LeBron James?

The difference between Allen and LeBron is smaller than Curry to Wade...Allen and LeBron woul qualify as a #1 defender on any team. The difference between Wade and Curry would be a #3 defender v. a #5 or even #6 defender on a team. Also, Allen plays 28mpg, as a defensive stopper...LeBron is playing 38mpg...and as a pure man defender...Allen is a lot better than James. James is great, but has lapses where guys can score at will on him. You aren't necessarily comparing apples to apples like you are with Wade and Curry, but there is a difference defensively between the two.

 

[FedEx227]

Isn't 5 > 4.4? According to DefRtg, no, the difference between Allen and LeBron and Curry and Wade is not smaller. The benefit of course is that LeBron can guard all five positions with ease so there's more to it than the numbers, I'm just trying to show the data on the two and how they aren't as far apart as the perception seems to be.

I understand your basic point and trust me I still agree that Wade is a better defender than Curry I just want people to reel in the "Wade is a great defender and Curry is awful". Wade is an average defender these days and Curry is a below-average. Wade gets a lot of credit because he racks up steals (or at least use to) but that's a very poor way to measure someone's ability on defense.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Isn't 5 > 4.4? According to DefRtg, no, the difference between Allen and LeBron and Curry and Wade is not smaller. The benefit of course is that LeBron can guard all five positions with ease so there's more to it than the numbers, I'm just trying to show the data on the two and how they aren't as far apart as the perception seems to be.

I understand your basic point and trust me I still agree that Wade is a better defender than Curry I just want people to reel in the "Wade is a great defender and Curry is awful". Wade is an average defender and Curry is a below-average.

Firstly, you are comparing apples or oranges with LeBron v. Allen. Two completely different players guarding different players and skill sets. However, even for the point of discussion. If we shrink down the data, to fit Allen's 26mpg into the same bracket as LeBron's 38mpg, Allen would be 1st in the league while LeBron 25th. In the same grouping, Wade is 27th while Curry is 84th. The difference of 99 and 103 is fucking huge, and that is with comparing players that would be apples to apples.

Secondly, Wade v. Curry...if we shrink that sample size down to players that play over 30mpg to wash out role players from the discussion. Wade is a Top 15 defender in the league (14th, actually). Curry would rank 51 of 91 qualified over 30mpg...dude, he's a bottom half of the league defender. Monster difference. And, that is with saying 12-13 Wade is not as good as Old Wade.

Curry isn't playing the same basketball on defense as Wade. Sorry, bruh. So, while I do agree...Curry is below average...saying Wade is "average" is just not true. He's still a high end defender in this league.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Theres is way more to stats when dealing with defense...

Wade and Curry's team both play with COMPLETELY different defensive mentalities.. Wade would look a lot worse playing on Golden State, Curry would look a lot better playing in Miami. And it goes far beyond that. I really dont believe compiled "defensive stats" are going to be the best way of evaluating a players defense.

Even comparing them offensively is a stretch, they both play completely different games and the offensive philosophy of both teams is so different.

Ill say this, at 25 Steph Curry is already a much better distributor than Wade has ever been, and hes already probably the best shooter in the NBA. Combining those 2 things offensively is a special thing. He has a long way to go to match Wade career wise, but if im putting a team together today im picking Curry to build around before Wade.

 

[FedEx227]

I don't think that's a great way to do the Wade/Curry thing. Let's break it out into guards, we don't need to muck up the discussion with forwards.

If you do >30 MPG and guards:

Wade: 4th / 40
Curry: 17th / 40

So yeah, maybe saying Wade is average was a bit off base in relation to his non-role playing peers. Again though, the difference between 4th and 17th is only 4.4 DefRtg, but the difference between 1st and 40th is only 14.3.

So I don't think the difference is all that dramatic but to each his own. I'm just glad this section finally has some damn activity.

 

[FedEx227]

Theres is way more to stats when dealing with defense...

Wade and Curry's team both play with COMPLETELY different defensive mentalities.. Wade would look a lot worse playing on Golden State, Curry would look a lot better playing in Miami. And it goes far beyond that. I really dont believe compiled "defensive stats" are going to be the best way of evaluating a players defense.

Even comparing them offensively is a stretch, they both play completely different games and the offensive philosophy of both teams is so different.

Ill say this, at 25 Steph Curry is already a much better distributor than Wade has ever been, and hes already probably the best shooter in the NBA. Combining those 2 things offensively is a special thing. He has a long way to go to match Wade career wise, but if im putting a team together today im picking Curry to build around before Wade.

Absolutely. I don't think the stats should be the "be all, end all". I think as you mentioned the PACE and what is asked of Curry and Wade has to go into account as well. Curry is not expected or really asked to put much effort into defense and likely doesn't.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Theres is way more to stats when dealing with defense...

Wade and Curry's team both play with COMPLETELY different defensive mentalities.. Wade would look a lot worse playing on Golden State, Curry would look a lot better playing in Miami. And it goes far beyond that. I really dont believe compiled "defensive stats" are going to be the best way of evaluating a players defense.

Even comparing them offensively is a stretch, they both play completely different games and the offensive philosophy of both teams is so different.

Ill say this, at 25 Steph Curry is already a much better distributor than Wade has ever been, and hes already probably the best shooter in the NBA. Combining those 2 things offensively is a special thing. He has a long way to go to match Wade career wise, but if im putting a team together today im picking Curry to build around before Wade.

One is 25, the other is 31.

That isn't the discussion though...it is who is better this year...its Wade. Its a lot closer than it would be in other years...but its Wade. Curry is a better shooter, and a better distributor (PG v. SG, go figure)...but Wade a better defender and as good a scorer, and he's not too shabby a distributor either...and this is with Old Ass Wade.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I don't think that's a great way to do the Wade/Curry thing. Let's break it out into guards, we don't need to muck up the discussion with forwards.

If you do >30 MPG and guards:

Wade: 4th / 40
Curry: 17th / 40

So yeah, maybe saying Wade is average was a bit off base in relation to his non-role playing peers. Again though, the difference between 4th and 17th is only 4.4 DefRtg, but the difference between 1st and 40th is only 14.3.

So I don't think the difference is all that dramatic but to each his own. I'm just glad this section finally has some damn activity.

That's HUGE, bro. That's someone who is in the upper echelon of his position and someone who is average on his best day, most likely below average. Just completely different levels.