Best GM in the game?

[Villain]

My point still stands. :bettman:

AH you beat my edit.

 

[Goober]

Lol, after the first game of the season.

:ukiddingme:

Ruben is a lot like Gruden in the NFL. He took over a stacked roster, and won it all his first year on the job, thanks to a roster put together by his predecessor. After winning it all both the Buccaneers and Phillies went off the shit end rather quickly. I fully expect to see Ruben working as a talking head at ESPN in two years.

 

[moneyman255]

Doug Melvin


































inb4 the groan

 

[EmpireWF]

Doug Melvin

He did do a good job 8 years ago in the draft...

 

[shag773]

Lol, after the first game of the season.

:ukiddingme:

I know, the chatbox was pretty funny last night. Thankfully the Phils have 161 more games to make up the 1 game deficit they are facing today.

I don't think Rube is the best GM in baseball, but I don't think he's the worst either. He's criticized for the Ryan contract, the Papelbon contract, and the young players he's moved.

First off, the Phillies are a big market team with huge fan support, a great ballpark, and money coming out of their ears. While they overpaid for Howard and Paps, it certainly hasn't hindered them in signing other players. Even if Howard has not replicated his production from 06-08, his bat is still an essential part of the lineup, as shown last year when they played largely without him in the first half with a winning PCT of .425 vs the 2nd half with him when they played .600 ball. While I agree his absence wasn't the only reason for the 1st half struggles, only a moron would say this lineup is better without him.

Secondly as far as the trades, if he didn't try to make moves to add pieces around the Hamels, Utley, Rollins, and Howard then he would be criticized for sitting on his hands while the window for a championship run with those players were still open. Every single one of those moves (outside of trading Lee, which was a huge mistake) were widely regarded as a move which made them a world series favorite.

 

[Goober]

I know, the chatbox was pretty funny last night. Thankfully the Phils have 161 more games to make up the 1 game deficit they are facing today.

I don't think Rube is the best GM in baseball, but I don't think he's the worst either. He's criticized for the Ryan contract, the Papelbon contract, and the young players he's moved.

First off, the Phillies are a big market team with huge fan support, a great ballpark, and money coming out of their ears. While they overpaid for Howard and Paps, it certainly hasn't hindered them in signing other players. Even if Howard has not replicated his production from 06-08, his bat is still an essential part of the lineup, as shown last year when they played largely without him in the first half with a winning PCT of .425 vs the 2nd half with him when they played .600 ball. While I agree his absence wasn't the only reason for the 1st half struggles, only a moron would say this lineup is better without him.

Secondly as far as the trades, if he didn't try to make moves to add pieces around the Hamels, Utley, Rollins, and Howard then he would be criticized for sitting on his hands while the window for a championship run with those players were still open. Every single one of those moves (outside of trading Lee, which was a huge mistake) were widely regarded as a move which made them a world series favorite.

Money coming out of their ears...but they acquire Delmon Young and Michael Young instead of good players...

 

[shag773]

Ruben is a lot like Gruden in the NFL. He took over a stacked roster, and won it all his first year on the job, thanks to a roster put together by his predecessor. After winning it all both the Buccaneers and Phillies went off the shit end rather quickly. I fully expect to see Ruben working as a talking head at ESPN in two years.

Amaro lost the WS his first year on the job. Gruden pretty much wallowed in mediocrity after his first year, while Rub increased the team win total the first 3 years on the job until last year when they were without the middle of their lineup and their best pitcher for a good portion of the year.

Long story short, he's not like Jon Gruden....

 

[WrightStuff]

Maybe a little OT because he's not the best, but I love what Alderson has done with the Mets thus far.

 

[shag773]

Money coming out of their ears...but they acquire Delmon Young and Michael Young instead of good players...

Who should they have gotten? BJ Upton? They were right to step away from that bidding war. Josh Hamilton? Going over 3 years for him would be a mistake, considering his injury and off field issues.

 

[Youk]

Amaro lost the WS his first year on the job. Gruden pretty much wallowed in mediocrity after his first year, while Rub increased the team win total the first 3 years on the job until last year when they were without the middle of their lineup and their best pitcher for a good portion of the year.

Long story short, he's not like Jon Gruden....

He personally increased the team win total?

Besides using Cliff Lee to get Roy Halladay and then resigning Lee, I don't see what Amaro has done to improve the team beyond fringe players. (Not including the awesome Papelbon contract, etc.) Please enlighten.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

He personally increased the team win total?

Besides using Cliff Lee to get Roy Halladay and then resigning Lee, I don't see what Amaro has done to improve the team beyond fringe players. (Not including the awesome Papelbon contract, etc.) Please enlighten.

He didn't pay BJ Upton nearly $75M. That's the best move he never made.

 

[Youk]

He didn't pay BJ Upton nearly $75M. That's the best move he never made.

He already spent that money on Howard.

 

[shag773]

He personally increased the team win total?

Besides using Cliff Lee to get Roy Halladay and then resigning Lee, I don't see what Amaro has done to improve the team beyond fringe players. (Not including the awesome Papelbon contract, etc.) Please enlighten.

2009 - Traded for Cliff Lee for what turned out to be nothing. Turned out to be a season saving move with Hamels having a down year. 93 wins up from 92.
2010 - Deadline trade for Roy Oswalt. Went 7-1 with a sub 2.00 ERA after the trade. 97 wins.
2011 - Deadline trade for Hunter Pence. Batted .324 with 11 HRs and 35 RBIs in 54 games. 102 wins.

Consider yourself enlightened..

 

[Youk]

2009 - Traded for Cliff Lee for what turned out to be nothing. Turned out to be a season saving move with Hamels having a down year. 93 wins up from 92.
2010 - Deadline trade for Roy Oswalt. Went 7-1 with a sub 2.00 ERA after the trade. 97 wins.
2011 - Deadline trade for Hunter Pence. Batted .324 with 11 HRs and 35 RBIs in 54 games. 102 wins.

Consider yourself enlightened..

I don't feel enlightened, mainly since this team was already put together for him. Give me SOMETHING here to give him a reason to be in this thread. Any decent drafts? I won't even ask about his contract skills since Ryan Howard and Papelbon have answered the question for me.

 

[shag773]

I don't feel enlightened, mainly since this team was already put together for him. Give me SOMETHING here to give him a reason to be in this thread. Any decent drafts? I won't even ask about his contract skills since Ryan Howard and Papelbon have answered the question for me.

He shouldn't be in this thread. I think I made that point in the first sentence of my initial post. I agree with most of what you just said. I just don't think he's as bad as he's being portrayed in this thread.

 

[Youk]

He shouldn't be in this thread. I think I made that point in the first sentence of my initial post. I just don't think he's as bad as he's being portrayed in this thread.

All criticism of him is the truth. He inherited a stacked roster that won a World Series, yet has been stagnant ever since. He may have made those additions, but they just kept them in the playoffs, never getting them to the next level. Oswalt fell off soon after, and Pence was gone soon after as well. Lee has stayed, Halladay is 36, could have a bit left in the tank but is getting up there. At this point right now, the talent level is not nearly where it was when he took over.

 

[shag773]

All criticism of him is the truth. He inherited a stacked roster that won a World Series, yet has been stagnant ever since.

A stacked roster? Name a pitcher from that team not named Hamels or Lidge, who by the way was never the same pitcher after that year. And saying they were stagnant is just flat out wrong. You may not agree with the moves he made, but he made plenty of moves.

He may have made those additions, but they just kept them in the playoffs, never getting them to the next level. Oswalt fell off soon after, and Pence was gone soon after as well. Lee has stayed, Halladay is 36, could have a bit left in the tank but is getting up there. At this point right now, the talent level is not nearly where it was when he took over.

He could of just stood pat and been in playoff contention. Just about every move he made from 09-11 was regarded as a move that "brought them to the next level". Did it work? No. Should he be held responsible? Yes. But saying he made those moves "just to make the playoffs" is wrong.

As far as the talent level, the core is 5 years older than when they took over. Who should he of moved? Utley's been hurt with a big contract (Gillick gave him that extension in 07). While Howard may not be a 25 mill a year player, he's still highly productive and is the centerpiece of this lineup. If he didn't get that money here it would be somewhere else. He locked up Cole, and brought back Rollins when he was clearly the best option at SS in that particular market.

 

[Youk]

While Howard may not be a 25 mill a year player, he's still highly productive and is the centerpiece of this lineup. If he didn't get that money here it would be somewhere else.

That doesn't seem like a good excuse to give him $25 million.

The fact is, a good GM know when to fold them. Just because Rollins was the best option at that point in time doesn't mean you need to go out and give him a 3 year/$33 million deal.

Saying he made those moves just to continue to make the playoffs is completely correct, actually. Like you said, try to name a starting pitcher on that 2008 WS roster, outside of Hamels (and Moyer, Blanton, Kendrick, etc.). It was rough. Without the addition of starting pitching, the team could easily have either missed the playoffs (more likely in 2010 than 2009), or been bounced earlier.

The goal of a GM is to make sure to win as soon as possible, as often as possible, without being saddled with overpaid veterans. Who should he have moved? I wouldn't have signed Ryan Howard to that contract, even then. I would not have brought back Rollins. Would it hurt for a season or two? Yes, probably. But right now we wouldn't be talking about the age and declining talent of the Phillies, but a possible youth movement along side of veterans like Utley, Hamels, Lee, and Halladay. Draft smart, sign smart.

 

[shag773]

All criticism of him is the truth. He inherited a stacked roster that won a World Series, yet has been stagnant ever since.

Another point in regards to this statement, the Phillies teams in 09, 10, and 11 had more talent than the 08 team. Not even an argument. I'll even go as far to say the 2010-2011 teams are the 2 best teams talent wise in Phillies history

 

[shag773]

That doesn't seem like a good excuse to give him $25 million.

The fact is, a good GM know when to fold them. Just because Rollins was the best option at that point in time doesn't mean you need to go out and give him a 3 year/$33 million deal.

Saying he made those moves just to continue to make the playoffs is completely correct, actually. Like you said, try to name a starting pitcher on that 2008 WS roster, outside of Hamels (and Moyer, Blanton, Kendrick, etc.). It was rough. Without the addition of starting pitching, the team could easily have either missed the playoffs (more likely in 2010 than 2009), or been bounced earlier.

The goal of a GM is to make sure to win as soon as possible, as often as possible, without being saddled with overpaid veterans. Who should he have moved? I wouldn't have signed Ryan Howard to that contract, even then. I would not have brought back Rollins. Would it hurt for a season or two? Yes, probably. But right now we wouldn't be talking about the age and declining talent of the Phillies, but a possible youth movement along side of veterans like Utley, Hamels, Lee, and Halladay. Draft smart, sign smart.

Does Brian Cashman deserve to be in this thread?