Best GM in the game?

[Youk]

Another point in regards to this statement, the Phillies teams in 09, 10, and 11 had more talent than the 08 team. Not even an argument. I'll even go as far to say the 2010-2011 teams are the 2 best teams talent wise in Phillies history

Well yea, when you keep the same team and add Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, I'd hope it has some more talent.

Either way, in the end, the team is doomed to be filled with overpaid veterans, if it isn't already. Sign of a GM who can't handle his team.

(Also was handed a stacked roster)

 

[Youk]

Does Brian Cashman deserve to be in this thread?

Absolutely terrible comparison. Depends who's calling the shots for Cashman. You've got the first half of his career stuck with George who wanted every top free agent, and now you've got him stuck with Hal who wants the payroll below the tax threshold.

 

[shag773]

That doesn't seem like a good excuse to give him $25 million.

I disagree. He's not holding back anyone in the minors nor does his contract hinder them from signing other players. Phillies need him in the lineup and can afford to overpay him

The fact is, a good GM know when to fold them. Just because Rollins was the best option at that point in time doesn't mean you need to go out and give him a 3 year/$33 million deal.

I can't completely disagree with this, especially with Freddy Galvis waiting his turn. But Jimmy played up to what he was payed and has shown no signs of slowing down this year. His power and defense alone warrants 11 mill a year.

Saying he made those moves just to continue to make the playoffs is completely correct, actually. Like you said, try to name a starting pitcher on that 2008 WS roster, outside of Hamels (and Moyer, Blanton, Kendrick, etc.). It was rough. Without the addition of starting pitching, the team could easily have either missed the playoffs (more likely in 2010 than 2009), or been bounced earlier.

Not sure how this proves your point, but okay...

The goal of a GM is to make sure to win as soon as possible, as often as possible, without being saddled with overpaid veterans. Who should he have moved? I wouldn't have signed Ryan Howard to that contract, even then. I would not have brought back Rollins. Would it hurt for a season or two? Yes, probably. But right now we wouldn't be talking about the age and declining talent of the Phillies, but a possible youth movement along side of veterans like Utley, Hamels, Lee, and Halladay. Draft smart, sign smart.

His drafts have been brutal, agree 100%. But I'm not going to blame him for living with the consequences of being stuck with an older roster. He swung for the fences and mortgaged the future to try to win 1 or 2 more WS while these guys were in their prime. I guess we have a difference in philosophy here.

 

[shag773]

Absolutely terrible comparison. Depends who's calling the shots for Cashman. You've got the first half of his career stuck with George who wanted every top free agent, and now you've got him stuck with Hal who wants the payroll below the tax threshold.

Kind of like from 09-11 when the Phillies were throwing out money like a drunken sailor at a whore house, but then made moves last year to get under the tax threshold?

Yes, terrible comparison...

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

A lot of people in this thread still fail to understand that the goals of a GM (and the role of the GM in general) in certain cities is far different than in others. This is why a lot of baseball talk breaks down. Many fans, and shockingly a lot of writers who are supposedly smarter than everybody else, fail to recognize this sometimes.

You can't run a team in Philly the way you do in Minnesota. You just can't. That's not necessarily defending Ruben No Tomorrow, by the way.

Never forget that this is an entertainment business first. Entertainment. Business. If you think these guys were all hired to run fiscally responsible baseball operations, you are fooling yourself. Ruben Amaro wasn't getting paid to maximize his budget and get 1 WAR per every $5 million. Andrew Friedman does, though. He has no choice.

Most fans are not like gob, willing to lose 100 games rather than fight for wild card #2. Most would rather fight for wild card #2 and don't give a single fuck about the draft or who Baseball America is currently knob slobbing. Some cities want stars. Not everybody is a slave to the same master, keep that in mind.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Amaro's job was to get that core group to as many titles as he could during that window. And he got them to two, and won one. The Phillies were constantly making trades that made me envious as a fan because they always seemed to make impact moves that made them better at the time the moves were made.

Now his job is to keep this aging group in contention as long as he can until the bottom completely falls out. If it wasn't Philadelphia, maybe his directive would be different. But that's irrelevant. The team gave the city a 5 or 6 run of excellence, 100 win teams, and World Series. As a fan, i'd have no problem with that. I'd take that run in exchange for an ugly rebuild at the end. The Yankees avoided the ugly rebuild for almost 20 years by buying themselves out of trouble every time. That house of cards is about to finally collapse.

Do I prefer other models? Yeah, probably. But lets not pretend the big market model hasn't worked, or at least worked over the last 20 years or so. The landscape is changing though, that's for sure.

 

[Youk]

A lot of people in this thread still fail to understand that the goals of a GM (and the role of the GM in general) in certain cities is far different than in others. This is why a lot of baseball talk breaks down. Many fans, and shockingly a lot of writers who are supposedly smarter than everybody else, fail to recognize this sometimes.

You can't run a team in Philly the way you do in Minnesota. You just can't. That's not necessarily defending Ruben No Tomorrow, by the way.

Never forget that this is an entertainment business first. Entertainment. Business. If you think these guys were all hired to run fiscally responsible baseball operations, you are fooling yourself. Ruben Amaro wasn't getting paid to maximize his budget and get 1 WAR per every $5 million. Andrew Friedman does, though. He has no choice.

Most fans are not like gob, willing to lose 100 games rather than fight for wild card #2. Most would rather fight for wild card #2 and don't give a single fuck about the draft or who Baseball America is currently knob slobbing. Some cities want stars. Not everybody is a slave to the same master, keep that in mind.

I'm not saying he needs to be a cheap bastard here and give up for a few seasons. I do think that he has made some poor moves. I think shag and I can agree here that hes not a middle of the road GM. A better way for me to really explain my argument is that Amaro has not been tested yet. He's come into a winning team and kept it winning, and that's great, but what is he going to do when he needs to make the big decisions, such as replacing the aging pitching staff, and eventually the infield.

Listen, I know the big market model works, especially from a Red Sox fan point of view. I've seen them go out and add Schilling, Foulke, Millar, Mientkiewicz, and make a major trade, in order to compete and win a title, and it worked. I've also seen them go from there and the moves not work out (Crawford). Amaro was handed a talented roster, there's no arguing that. You cannot tell me otherwise, and you cannot say that it isn't an advantage over a GM who is given absolute shit. He's brought in pieces to keep the team at the same level within baseball, but now age is really catching up, and it's really going to show us what he can do.

When I talk about thinking for the future, I'm not talking about prospects with Philly. I'm talking about just getting younger overall. When these players continue to age, will he go out and make the big moves he has to make, or just bring in Delmon Young and Ben Revere? Your first reaction to this is going to be "Oh man who else do you want him to get this off-season blah blah blah." I hear you. Honestly, for $750k, I'd rather grab Delmon Young than Michael Bourn in a second. I'm making a general statement here.

 

[Youk]

Kind of like from 09-11 when the Phillies were throwing out money like a drunken sailor at a whore house, but then made moves last year to get under the tax threshold?

Yes, terrible comparison...

Not really. Steinbrenner and Gene Michael were calling some of the shots from down in Tampa over Cashman. I don't think your ownership was going out and dropping cash over Amaro. You're really stretching here.

 

[Goober]

A lot of people in this thread still fail to understand that the goals of a GM (and the role of the GM in general) in certain cities is far different than in others. This is why a lot of baseball talk breaks down. Many fans, and shockingly a lot of writers who are supposedly smarter than everybody else, fail to recognize this sometimes.

You can't run a team in Philly the way you do in Minnesota. You just can't. That's not necessarily defending Ruben No Tomorrow, by the way.

Never forget that this is an entertainment business first. Entertainment. Business. If you think these guys were all hired to run fiscally responsible baseball operations, you are fooling yourself. Ruben Amaro wasn't getting paid to maximize his budget and get 1 WAR per every $5 million. Andrew Friedman does, though. He has no choice.

Most fans are not like gob, willing to lose 100 games rather than fight for wild card #2. Most would rather fight for wild card #2 and don't give a single fuck about the draft or who Baseball America is currently knob slobbing. Some cities want stars. Not everybody is a slave to the same master, keep that in mind.

If the Brewers lost 100 games, I would be so happy.

 

[Villain]

Doug Melvin


































inb4 the groan

I will have you know that I groaned you since you didn't have a funny gif to enhance your joke.

 

[shag773]

I think shag and I can agree here that hes not a middle of the road GM.

I actually think that's exactly what he is. Not worthy of being the best GM in MLB, but no where near the worst.

 

[NAHSTE]

Amaro is lower third.