Best QB In NFL History?

[steeljake]

Elway/Young/Aikman/Kelly are all pretty interchangable. Aikman won 3 Superbowls in 4 years, that's why I give him the edge. Yes, I acknowledge that Aikman also had the most talent around him of this group (with the exception of Steve Young's '94 team)... but honestly, I don't care what the team is around you, you get 4 shots at a championship and lose every one? No, you don't get ahead of a 3 time winner on this list.

Elway of the late '90s was not the same QB as Elway of the late '80s. John Elway was, for most of his career, Brett Favre with a lesser arm and an utter inability to read a zone defense. Elway ddin't join the "all time great" category until he started winning Superbowls.

Steve Young was the most physically talented of the four, by a long ways. He was more accurate than Aikman, more mobile than Elway, and as intelligent as Kelly. If it hadn't been for the loss of Ricky Watters... who they took 3 years to replace... I think he'd be the best among these names.

Terry Bradshaw sucked. He should be NOWHERE near this discussion.

really? he called his own plays, won 4 super bowls, was mvp in two of them, nfl mvp in 1978. yes he had a great d and two HoF wr's, but you just said that didnt matter for aikman cuz he had 3 ring in 4 years, well terry has 4 in 6, two sets of back to back. he was known for a rocket arm and people forget he could scramble. i have always thought of you to be a smart person, but this arguement is making me wonder. Elways also was bogged down by dan reeves and no running game for most of his career and still made 3 super bowls before he got terrel davis.

 

[dell71]

really? he called his own plays, won 4 super bowls, was mvp in two of them, nfl mvp in 1978. yes he had a great d and two HoF wr's, but you just said that didnt matter for aikman cuz he had 3 ring in 4 years, well terry has 4 in 6, two sets of back to back. he was known for a rocket arm and people forget he could scramble. i have always thought of you to be a smart person, but this arguement is making me wonder. Elways also was bogged down by dan reeves and no running game for most of his career and still made 3 super bowls before he got terrel davis.

Honestly, I don't think Aikman or Bradshaw belongs in the poll. For Aikman, I never saw what he did that was so special it couldn't be duplicated by some other qb with the same team around him. Yes, he was accurate but the team around him was so great all he had to do was not fuck up. He's way down on my list when I start ranking qbs I want if I had to win one game.

I'm also old enough to have watched Bradshaw. My biggest beef with him is how many bad throws Swann & Stallworth bailed him out of. I'll give him credit for that other stuff you named but I remember way too many overthrows that his wideouts just made spectacular catches on.

Admittedly, I was quite young back then, so let's go to the stats...yup, only 3 top 10 finishes in comp % in his whole career, never better than 7th. Put that against 8 times among the top 10 (actually bottom 10) in interceptions thrown even though he only finished in the top 10 in pass attempts 4 times. Career-wise: only 43rd all time in attempts but 19th most interceptions thrown. So yeah, the 4 SB wins is HOF worthy but save for the SB against Dallas, he wasn't particularly awesome in any of them, (I know he won 2 SB MVPs). Without them, he'd hardly be considered a great and he's even further down my list of guys I want if I had to win one game, so I wouldn't have him among my best ever.

 

[adembroski]

I'm not going to sit here and argue the Young/Elway/Aikman/Kelly thing too much. I think it's too open to opinion, homerism, and other considerations. They're all All-Time-Great quarterbacks who deserve recognition for their own accomplishments and abilities.

I think perceptions of Elway are distorted a bit for being the one of the four that had his success most recently, and he was a sentimental favorite that a lot of people (including myself - I AM an Elway fan) were just happy to see him pull it off. People say Elway would have won in Montana's position, but I don't think he ever would have played in Montana's position. I don't think he'd have fit that offense, and I don't think Walsh wanted a QB with out absolute pinpoint accuracy. Elway's accuracy was not his strength.

Hell, his greatest strength was his competitiveness and passion. And I wont sell that short. It's not like I'm sitting here saying Elway sucked ass.

And, yes, he's in the arm strength conversation. But so is Michael Vick and Jeff George, so what does that tell you?

It's very difficult for me to put Aikman ahead of Young. I honestly consider Young the most overall talented quarterback in NFL history. Now, that's mostly on paper, so there are intangibles that make guys like Staubach and Montana "Greater", but Young's skill set is unmatched in league history. But Aikman did win 3 Superbowls in 4 years and kept the Cowboys competitive when most of the team had fell off.

When I'm looking for a QB, I'm looking for 4 primary factors; Leadership, Functional Football Intelligence, Footwork, and Accuracy.

Elway had 2 of those at an elite level. Kelly 3, Aikman 3, and Young all four. I'm not saying Elway was the worst of those by any means (though I'd take any of the other 3 first, but that's because I'm a traditional West Coast guy... Shannahan ran a version of the West Coast that was built for Elway... simple, 1 side-of-the-field deep-to-short passing lane reads and a focus on the running game).

So, to a certain extent, my list is based on what I am looking for in a quarterback... and for what I'm looking for, Steve Young is the prototype. Clearly I don't consider him the greatest of all time, but if I'm building the perfect quarterback, he's my starting point.

Oh, and in my opinion, the strongest arm in the history of the NFL happens to reside in Detroit right now. We'll see if he can add any of the other necessary qualities over the course of his career.

 

[adembroski]

I would say accuracy was the only one of your four traits in which Elway "lacked". He retired as the all time wins leader and comeback victory record for a reason. I think what you're missing is that there are also levels to all of those traits you listed. And Elway's leadership and footwork were so far and away above those of a guy like Steve Young or Jim Kelly, they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence with him. The guy was 148-82-1 with Dan fucking Reeves calling the plays and trying to replace him with Tommy Maddox. I would take Elway over all these guys but that's just me, and four other people so far.

Wow, you never watched Young play, did you? Footwork? The guy was immaculate. He had every technical aspect of the game down to a science.

And you seem to forget... every offense Elway played in had to be simplified and dumbed down for him. He didn't study, he couldn't read a zone defense. He limited his offense. Yes, he won anyways, so it doesn't take much away from him.

For the record, when you have to comeback that many times, it means you fucked up in the first place. Montana was easily the best late game quarterback in NFL history, he just didn't put himself in a position to have to comeback nearly as often as Elway did.

I should drop this. I've had this conversation thousands of times and it annoys me. Elway is not God. People keep bringing up Elway's stats.. you forget that Young was a backup for five years? Elway had 300 touchdowns... projected over the number of games Elway played, Young would have had 321 touchdowns, and only 148 interceptions compared to Elway's 226. Not to mention 96.8 QBR vs. 79.9...

Young's QBR is almost 17 points higher... the individual stat that correlates statistically more with winning than any other. 3 MVP awards shows that Young's contemporaries recognized how good he was.

Young was the most polished, precise, and perfectionist quarterback in NFL history, besides maybe Montana. That's why the 49ers wanted him. His athletic ability was secondary... it was his intelligence and drive to be perfect. His attention to detail, knowledge of the playbook, and functional intelligence is absolutely unmatched (and it was the same playbook Elway was in toward the end of his career... only difference, there were no Dallas Cowboys dynasty for Elway to contend with). His footwork was immaculate. He was the best of his time at avoiding turnovers and mistakes. He had an above average deep arm. He had pin point accuracy, matched only by Aikman for his time. He was a better, and more courageous runner than Elway (Elway's oh so glorified diving TD in the Superbowl? That was an every-game occurrence for Young).

And leadership? Seriously? Most of Elway's teammates over his career hated the dude!

I don't hate Elway. Saying he wasn't as good as Steve Young, Troy Aikman, or Joe Montana isn't an insult. Honestly, I'd have a much harder time making this argument with Kelly, but then, I don't know much about Kelly.

Elway, by the way, had the fourth strongest arm in the NFL at that time. Dan Marino, Brett Favre, and Jeff George all had stronger arms. Not that it matters, it's the most overrated aspect of quarterbacking there is.

The only aspect of quarterbacking in which Elway was better than Young was arm strength. Only.

 

[GoChargers]

Joe Montana.
Drew Brees and Philip Rivers a close 2nd/3rd

 

[Maynard]

Uhhh he had over 50,000 passing yards and 300 TD's, as well as a great playoff record (not so much in the Super Bowl). He was in the discussion, or it's a stupid discussion.

dont forget though that during a 5-6 year stretch in the 90ies, he wasnt very good. And neither was their team. It was even discussed they wanted to trade him but elected to dump reeves instead

Elway-- Was always in the discussion as one of the greatest. No clue what NFL games Adem was watching. Him having a lesser arm then ANYONE is downright ridiculous. Strongest arm on that list period.
.

agreed

 

[ralaw]

Peter Kings' top 12 QB's off all-time

1. Otto Graham. Easy. Ten seasons, seven championships, seven passing titles.

2. Sammy Baugh. Had the best season of any player ever in 1943. Led the NFL in passing, punting and, as one of the best safeties in football, in interceptions.

3. Joe Montana. Made everyone copy Walsh's high-tech offense, and won four titles in a decade.

4. Johnny Unitas. First great modern quarterback, and great in the clutch. He'd be higher if he won more than one title in his last 14 seasons.

5. Brett Favre. Most durable, most productive quarterback of all time. Marred by only one title.

6. Peyton Manning. Could break every record if Favre ever retires. Needs another championship or two to climb the list.

7. John Elway. Two titles, though they came late, capped the career of a Unitas-type with legs.

8. Dan Marino. Prototype dropback quarterback who, arguably, was the model for the pocket quarterback of the last 40 years.

9. Roger Staubach. Might be the best player/athlete/leader of a quarterback ever, and he edges Steve Young in my book with a second title and three more title-game appearances.

10. Tom Brady. Three Super Bowl wins by age 27, and a fourth appearance at 30.

11. Bart Starr. All he did was win -- five NFL titles, including the first two Super Bowl titles, both ending with him being MVP.

12. Terry Bradshaw. Rebounded from a horrible start to his career to lead the Steelers to four Super Bowls in six years.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/09/20/mmqb/4.html#ixzz0RoVEUfGP

 

[steeljake]

peter king is old.

 

[dell71]

1. Otto Graham. Easy. Ten seasons, seven championships, seven passing titles.

2. Sammy Baugh. Had the best season of any player ever in 1943. Led the NFL in passing, punting and, as one of the best safeties in football, in interceptions.

3. Joe Montana. Made everyone copy Walsh's high-tech offense, and won four titles in a decade.

4. Johnny Unitas. First great modern quarterback, and great in the clutch. He'd be higher if he won more than one title in his last 14 seasons.

5. Brett Favre. Most durable, most productive quarterback of all time. Marred by only one title.

6. Peyton Manning. Could break every record if Favre ever retires. Needs another championship or two to climb the list.

7. John Elway. Two titles, though they came late, capped the career of a Unitas-type with legs.

8. Dan Marino. Prototype dropback quarterback who, arguably, was the model for the pocket quarterback of the last 40 years.

9. Roger Staubach. Might be the best player/athlete/leader of a quarterback ever, and he edges Steve Young in my book with a second title and three more title-game appearances.

10. Tom Brady. Three Super Bowl wins by age 27, and a fourth appearance at 30.

11. Bart Starr. All he did was win -- five NFL titles, including the first two Super Bowl titles, both ending with him being MVP.

12. Terry Bradshaw. Rebounded from a horrible start to his career to lead the Steelers to four Super Bowls in six years.

Hmmm...

I have a big problem with Favre over Manning & Elway and also with Marino over guys 9 through 11. But overall that's not that bad a list. My big beef is if Staubach "edges" Steve Young & is #9, how does Young not make at least #12 in place of Bradshaw (whom I've already illustrated my issues with). Before I even try to make my own list, Bradshaw is the only guy there I can definitively say would absolutely not make my top 12.

 

[Liquidrob]

John Elway and Steve Young are the 2 best pound for pound QBs ever

 

[Senser81]

John Elway and Steve Young are the 2 best pound for pound QBs ever

Jamarcus Russell is the worst pound for pound QB ever.

 

[Nukleopatra]

Peter King's list makes more sense.

1. No Joe Namath.
2. No Steve Young.
3. No Bob Griese.

 

[DoubleDeuce]

Why Bart Starr at 11 on that guy's list? He is the only person in NFL history to be the starting quarterback for 5 NFL championships. He also won 2 Super Bowls, so he won 7 championships. Otto Graham won 7 championships in far lesser competition.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Senser, I need some senser research...

Is there is a Hall of Fame QB that would be considered less of a big game quarterback then Dan Marino?

8-10 playoff record. 56% comp. %. 24 INTs in 18 games. 77 QB rating.

Outside of the 84 Championship game, I can't recall a "big game" by Marino come playoff time.

 

[Boss AZ]

No Favre or Manning? Oh yea they didn't play in the 70's ....

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Senser, I need some senser research...

Is there is a Hall of Fame QB that would be considered less of a big game quarterback then Dan Marino?

8-10 playoff record. 56% comp. %. 24 INTs in 18 games. 77 QB rating.

Outside of the 84 Championship game, I can't recall a "big game" by Marino come playoff time.

He got to a SB, that counts for something. Imagine his legacy if he didnt even do that.

Maybe Warren Moon?

 

[Aso]

Isn't Warren Moon the oldest QB to ever make a pro bowl. He's a beast.

Oh and i voted for Joe Montana

 

[FirstTimer]

I'd have Unitas ranked at the top, along with Manning, Montana, Graham, Elway,

 

[Fox1994]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/09/20/mmqb/4.html#ixzz0RoVEUfGP

I voted Unitas, but King's list makes sense. I just have trouble putting anyone above Unitas. After that it's anyone's guess. . . Otto Graham, Joe Cool, there's so many greats. . .

 

[FirstTimer]

Despite many of their physical talents (Elway in particular), these guys belong nowhere near the all-time Great list and really only end up being in the discussions because of the teams they were on.

Please tell me you aren't serious with this shit in regards to Elway. Elway was one of the GOAT before TD showed up and he pretty much carried the Broncos to 3 Super Bowls in the 80's.

Steve Young was on some great teams, but he performed at a level none of those guys ever did. An average year in Steve Young's career is better than the best year any of these guys had.

Ever consider that's because of who he had around him? Young was nothing until he got to San Fran and was backing up a HOF'er, had a great RB, coach and HOF WR plus all other sorts of great talent around him. Even with all this he still only ever got to one Super Bowl meanwhile a guy like Elway on much weaker teams during the early part of his career carried Denver to 3.