Brad Stevens new Celtics head coach.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Expound on your point, Warner.

You may not be saying it directly, I just get the vibe from your posts that you are saying Brad Stevens is now the new Leonard Hamilton...just whiter and nerdier.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Expound on your point, Warner.

You may not be saying it directly, I just get the vibe from your posts that you are saying Brad Stevens is now the new Leonard Hamilton...just whiter and nerdier.

I've posted about a half dozen times and thought I explained my stance pretty clear.

I'm saying he had a chance to stay in one spot, literally forever, and do something truly special and somewhat unique. I gave examples of coaches who did this (Coach K, John Thompson Jr, etc) in similar situations, who could have bolted at literally any time. but stayed put and built special legacies as a result. They are every bit the legends Pitino & Calipari are, but did it in one place, and raised the profile of those places forever & made them basketball royalty.

I'm not saying Stevens can't be successful with this move. Personally, I think he fails in Boston, for a multitude of reasons. But whether he does or doesn't, he's at best a mercenary like Calipari or Pitino, and at worst, a complete non entity job hopper like Dan Monson or Lon Kruger or Mike Montgomery...or Leonard Hamilton. His shot at having a special legacy is gone.

Stevens was young, had Butler firmly entrenched as a power for years if not decades to come, and was entering the Big East, which even if it's not the classic Big East, is a massive step up in class from where Butler was two years ago. He could have stayed and become iconic. Dude had it made, he tossed it away. It's a huge gamble. I say he loses. To me he has a 10% shot of being Pitino, 90% at Dan Monson.

Senser seems to get it, he just disagrees because he doesn't think much of Butler. You alluded to something similar earlier. But then we have derps saying "LOOK AT PITINO!", and that's not only completely missing the point, but using the worst example humanely possibly to counter what i'm saying. Sure, he could be Pitino. And that would be fantastic. Pitino is awesome, and he bangs waitresses on top of tables in crowded restaurants. But who wouldn't rather be Coach K? I guess Brad Stevens.

Let's keep it real. Boston is going to be terrible, and he'll never see the end of that contract. It's a rough town, he's a kid, and he'll be accused of not understanding the pro game. And then it's off to Northwestern or Texas A&M or Iowa St or Providence or Oregon St whatever middling college job is next. Where is Dan Monson these days? Not Gonzaga. Should have stayed there for life, instead he handed the keys to Mark Few.

 

[Argath]

It's possible Stevens wasn't confident his current roster could compete in the Big East and jumped ship before his legacy was ruined. I don't disagree with you but at this point everything is what ifs and what could have been. Butler might have just become the new Providence (Or Pittsburgh cwutididthar) of the Big East. It's completely different playing 5-6 games a year against this level of competition vs an entire season.

Besides, he's young. Lets say he makes it 3 years in Boston before being removed. He's only 39. What if he does as you say and comes back to a Texas A&M and builds them into a national contender every year and stays there for 30-40 years. Is his legacy really that much less because he tested NBA waters? I get what you're saying with becoming essentially a lifetime hire with Butler but the man is young enough that he could build a very similar legacy with another program if he chose to do so. In this scenario I wouldn't think much less of him and certainly wouldn't put him on Calipari's level of a mercenary for hire.

 

[citizenerased]

And what's to say he wanted the whole Coach K deal anyway? He's 33, now is not the time to worry about your legacy. He could've done that whole thing, stayed at Butler until he's 63 and retired with a massive nagging feeling in the back of his head because he never took his chance to have a shot in the big show.

 

[SuperKevin]

And what's to say he wanted the whole Coach K deal anyway? He's 33, now is not the time to worry about your legacy. He could've done that whole thing, stayed at Butler until he's 63 and retired with a massive nagging feeling in the back of his head because he never took his chance to have a shot in the big show.

He's 36...

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I've posted about a half dozen times and thought I explained my stance pretty clear.

I'm saying he had a chance to stay in one spot, literally forever, and do something truly special and somewhat unique. I gave examples of coaches who did this (Coach K, John Thompson Jr, etc) in similar situations, who could have bolted at literally any time. but stayed put and built special legacies as a result. They are every bit the legends Pitino & Calipari are, but did it in one place, and raised the profile of those places forever & made them basketball royalty.

I'm not saying Stevens can't be successful with this move. Personally, I think he fails in Boston, for a multitude of reasons. But whether he does or doesn't, he's at best a mercenary like Calipari or Pitino, and at worst, a complete non entity job hopper like Dan Monson or Lon Kruger or Mike Montgomery...or Leonard Hamilton. His shot at having a special legacy is gone.

Stevens was young, had Butler firmly entrenched as a power for years if not decades to come, and was entering the Big East, which even if it's not the classic Big East, is a massive step up in class from where Butler was two years ago. He could have stayed and become iconic. Dude had it made, he tossed it away. It's a huge gamble. I say he loses. To me he has a 10% shot of being Pitino, 90% at Dan Monson.

Senser seems to get it, he just disagrees because he doesn't think much of Butler. You alluded to something similar earlier. But then we have derps saying "LOOK AT PITINO!", and that's not only completely missing the point, but using the worst example humanely possibly to counter what i'm saying. Sure, he could be Pitino. And that would be fantastic. Pitino is awesome, and he bangs waitresses on top of tables in crowded restaurants. But who wouldn't rather be Coach K? I guess Brad Stevens.

Let's keep it real. Boston is going to be terrible, and he'll never see the end of that contract. It's a rough town, he's a kid, and he'll be accused of not understanding the pro game. And then it's off to Northwestern or Texas A&M or Iowa St or Providence or Oregon St whatever middling college job is next. Where is Dan Monson these days? Not Gonzaga. Should have stayed there for life, instead he handed the keys to Mark Few.

I just don't understand how you could say he would be Coach K or JTJr when he's at Butler...he'd more likely be Jim Phelan.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I just don't understand how you could say he would be Coach K or JTJr when he's at Butler...he'd more likely be Jim Phelan.

Exactly. It's Butler. The reason I feel so strongly that he's tossing away an iconic legacy is because it's Butler, and the fact that he built it from essentially nothing. I wouldn't even be arguing this if it were Iowa St or something. He could have stayed at Butler, and left in 40 years with Butler being hoops royalty. They were on their way, and might still get there without him.

"I don't understand what this Thompson guy thinks he's going to do. It's Georgetown."

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

And what's to say he wanted the whole Coach K deal anyway? He's 33, now is not the time to worry about your legacy. He could've done that whole thing, stayed at Butler until he's 63 and retired with a massive nagging feeling in the back of his head because he never took his chance to have a shot in the big show.

Clearly. He chose the Pitino path, and as I've said that's fine, but that backfires more often than not in situations like this, and it is my opinion that he fails miserably and ends up an also ran job hopper. I guess we'll see.

What I know is this. He had life by the balls at Butler, and it was only going to get better.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Exactly. It's Butler. The reason I feel so strongly that he's tossing away an iconic legacy is because it's Butler, and the fact that he built it from essentially nothing. I wouldn't even be arguing this if it were Iowa St or something. He could have stayed at Butler, and left in 40 years with Butler being hoops royalty. They were on their way, and might still get there without him.

"I don't understand what this Thompson guy thinks he's going to do. It's Georgetown."

I'm curious if a guy like JTJr ever got legitimate offers from the NBA.

Its not like guys like Jim Phelan or Ed Diddle were getting NBA offers. We know Coach K does, but Coach K is a different animal.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I will say this, the one caveat here is it's Boston. So I can give him some slack. It's THE job in basketball. If this were the Kings or Bucks or Bobcats or some shit I think everybody would be all over him.

If he wins an NBA title, bump this and i'll take my medicine. But this is the NBA, anything less than holding up that trophy and he's labeled a failure, fair or unfair.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I applaud Stevens for taking such a ballsy jump. This isn't Billy Donovan driving down the street and coaching in Orlando only to get cold feet. Nor is this Leonard Hamilton or Mike Montgomery taking over the Wizards or Warriors. He's taking over one of the two highest end gigs in all of basketball where there is no chance you're contending for a few years...the Celtics are looking at a new approach using advanced analytics and Stevens is THE mind on the coaching level that uses this technique.

I just want to see how it all plays out.

 

[Sportsbuck]

Let's keep it real. Boston is going to be terrible, and he'll never see the end of that contract. It's a rough town, he's a kid, and he'll be accused of not understanding the pro game. And then it's off to Northwestern or Texas A&M or Iowa St or Providence or Oregon St whatever middling college job is next. Where is Dan Monson these days? Not Gonzaga. Should have stayed there for life, instead he handed the keys to Mark Few.

I feel like if Brad Stevens flames out in the pros, he has a pretty good chance of landing a top job at a prestigious school in the college game. Different sports, but kind of like Nick Saban so to speak if it comes to it.

 

[Senser81]

Exactly. It's Butler. The reason I feel so strongly that he's tossing away an iconic legacy is because it's Butler, and the fact that he built it from essentially nothing. I wouldn't even be arguing this if it were Iowa St or something. He could have stayed at Butler, and left in 40 years with Butler being hoops royalty. They were on their way, and might still get there without him.

Butler would stil be like the 4th most prestigious school in the state, behind Indiana, Purdue, and Notre Dame. I think you are vastly overrating Butler. To draw a college football analogy, if Stevens had stayed at Butler, his iconic status would have been more like Lavell Edwards at BYU, not like Bear Bryant at Alabama.