Bull Pushing to deal Kirk Hinrich

[FirstTimer]

Interesting article from the Daily Herald

Not long after I turned in a story for the print edition discussing the possibility of a three-way trade between the Bulls, Rockets and Kings, the deal apparently went through without the Bulls involved.

Multiple sources reported Houston agreed to send Tracy McGrady and his massive expiring contract to Sacramento for shooting guard Kevin Martin. It’s as good as done, considering Martin sat out the second half of the Kings’ loss at Golden State on Wednesday night and spoke to the Sacramento Bee about the deal.

There are other pieces involved. Most notably, forward Carl Landry goes to the Kings and guard Sergio Rodriguez moves to Houston.

The question now is whether Sacramento will hang on to McGrady or trade him again before the deadline hits at 2 p.m. Central time.

The Bulls are still intent on trading Kirk Hinrich and opening even more cap room for the summer. That’s their top priority in the final hours before the deadline.

Since the Kings saved money by trading Martin, maybe they’d be interested in Hinrich, who could be a nice veteran mentor to rookie guard Tyreke Evans. A couple of combinations would work – Hinrich, Brad Miller and Jannero Pargo, or Hinrich, Tyrus Thomas, Jerome James and Pargo.

One report suggested McGrady to the Knicks is still a possibility. Apparently, the Knicks and Houston couldn’t agree on the proper compensation for taking Jared Jeffries off New York’s hands. The Rockets were looking for rookie Jordan Hill and two future first-round picks. What the Kings would want from the Knicks is anyone’s guess.

It should be good news for the Bulls that a straight Houston-New York deal is dead, because it doesn’t seem as likely now that the Knicks can open up enough cap room to chase two top-level free agents.

MILWAUKEE STILL A MYSTERY
It’s probably safe to say John Salmons is headed to Milwaukee. The trade makes sense for the Bucks because they’re in playoff contention and shooting guard Michael Redd is out for the year with an injury.

Milwaukee has four expiring contracts available and any combination of two players would work in this deal.

Early reports had the Bulls receiving veteran big men Kurt Thomas and Francisco Elson from the Bucks. Later in the night, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that power forward Hakim Warrick and seldom-used small forward Joe Alexander were headed to the Bulls.

It’s also possible the players are yet to be determined. It’s my understanding the Bulls want the big men as replacements if they end up dealing Brad Miller. Warrick didn’t play at all against Houston on Wednesday, but Kurt Thomas did. Miller had 21 and 10 against the Knicks, by the way.

If Tyrus Thomas isn’t part of a bigger deal, it’s starting to seem likely he’ll be sent to New York (with Jerome James) for Al Harrington. Warrick then heads to the Bulls as the new athletic power forward.

Moving Salmons should give the Bulls around $20 million in cap room this summer. Management is determined to get that number closer to $30 million by dealing Hinrich. Trading Thomas is a lower priority, since his departure won't create any extra cap space.

The Bulls were hoping that if Cleveland made a significant acquisition, it might encourage the Lakers to follow suit and grab Hinrich for expiring contracts. The Cavs laid off Amare Stoudemire, but did get Antawn Jamison from Washington on Wednesday, so we’ll see what happens.

 

[Argath]

Kirk on the Lakers would be dangerous, it just wouldn't be fair to other teams.

 

[FedEx227]

They have to do everything in their power to move Kirk or Deng at this deadline. For whatever, doesn't matter. Worry about the next 10 years, not a crappy 7th seed playoff run this year.

 

[Senser81]

They have to do everything in their power to move Kirk or Deng at this deadline. For whatever, doesn't matter. Worry about the next 10 years, not a crappy 7th seed playoff run this year.

yeah, the Bulls have been worrying about "the next 10 years" for 12 years now. Getting rid of proven players like Elton Brand, Ron Artest, Brad Miller (v.1), Tyson Chandler, etc. for these alleged superstars that are lined up and waiting for their chance to play for the Bulls has worked wonders for this franchise.

 

[FedEx227]

Okay, so if they stand pat with this current roster they'll be perennial 4-7th seeds in the East. Where does that get you?

First and second round knockouts every year, no lottery picks and no chance at getting a superstar. See Kings, Sacramento. Pacers, Indiana.

 

[Senser81]

Okay, so if they stand pat with this current roster they'll be perennial 4-7th seeds in the East. Where does that get you?

First and second round knockouts every year, no lottery picks and no chance at getting a superstar. See Kings, Sacramento. Pacers, Indiana.

Whoa, didn't the Bulls get the #1 overall pick two years ago? Or was I imagining that Derrick Rose thing and confusing him with Jalen Rose?

Is this even an argument on your part, when over a decade of evidence is against you?

 

[FedEx227]

Derrick Rose isn't a superstar. I love the guy I think he's a hell of a player, but he's the #2 guy on a championship team.

I can't wait to hear Senser be an expert at something else. Does it ever get old always being right?

We're not talking about the 2000 free agent class with a Bulls team led by Elton Brand and Corey Benjamin. This is the best FA class in NBA history, with two extremely solid building blocks in Chicago (Rose/Noah). There is no way you can stand pat and continue with the same roster for the next 4-5 years unless you really don't want to win a championship in Chicago. If you're happy with being a 5-7 seed for the next 5 years. Then okay, I would prefer my team actually go for a championship.

The way they can do that is by clearing as much cap space as possible this year and attempting to get 2 max free agents. if they end up with 1, whatever... they tried. But there is absolutely zero benefit in sticking with this "core" besides first and second round knockouts for the next 5 years.

 

[Senser81]

Derrick Rose isn't a superstar. I love the guy I think he's a hell of a player, but he's the #2 guy on a championship team.

I can't wait to hear Senser be an expert at something else. Does it ever get old always being right?

No, its pretty awesome how you want the Bulls to lose and get a lottery pick, then in your next posting you say that the recent #1 overall pick the Bulls made isn't a superstar.

Its like saying the Bears should just play young guys and go 3-13 so they can get a high draft pick, then in your next post list all of the 1st round flops from the Jerry Angelo era.

Are you retarded? Or do you just not remember what you've posted 2 minutes ago?

 

[FedEx227]

Find me one successful team in the NBA who built their team by anything other than a superstar they acquired in the lottery.

The NBA is not the NFL. Don't start with your stupid ass, baseless comparisons. Drafting a 1st rounder in the NFL is nothing like drafting in the top 15 in the NBA.

My point was, while Rose is an awesome player, he's not ever going to be a superstar that's the number 1 player on your title team. That's not a slight against him, that's not even a slight against Paxson. Some drafts don't have those superstars. It's still something you should try.

I'm not saying the Bulls should go OUT of their way to lose, I'm just saying there's no point in paying the luxury tax for a team of Rose-Hinrich-Deng-Noah. We've been there, done that and it's a mediocre team. You take the risk to sign 2 max free agents. You're in Chicago. You're a major market. You shouldn't be content with just making the playoffs every year and getting bounced in the first round.

 

[Senser81]

Find me one successful team in the NBA who built their team by anything other than a superstar they acquired in the lottery.

Lakers - Kobe Bryant drafted 13th. Gasol FA. Prior to that O'Neal FA. Other players were later picks or acquisitions.

Pistons - Ben Wallace undrafted. Rasheed FA. Billups acquired. Prince drafted 23rd. Okur 2nd round pick. Hamilton acquired.

Celtics - Pierce was a lottery pick, but taken 10th overall. Garnett and Allen were acquired. Other players were later picks or acquisitions.


So, thats 3 of the last 5 championship-winning franchises. :headbang:

 

[FedEx227]

Lakers - Kobe Bryant drafted 13th. Gasol FA. Prior to that O'Neal FA. Other players were later picks or acquisitions.

Pistons - Ben Wallace undrafted. Rasheed FA. Billups acquired. Prince drafted 23rd. Okur 2nd round pick. Hamilton acquired.

Celtics - Pierce was a lottery pick, but taken 10th overall. Garnett and Allen were acquired. Other players were later picks or acquisitions.


So, thats 3 of the last 5 championship-winning franchises. :headbang:

I believe those are both lottery picks there, champ.

The other two Spurs (Duncan lottery pick), Miami Heat (Wade lottery pick).

But yeah, those teams are all pretty comparable to Rose-Hinrich-Deng-Noah. Man, I can't wait until they can get that four-some together. Do some REAL damage to that eastern conference.

 

[Senser81]

I believe those are both lottery picks there, champ.

The other two Spurs (Duncan lottery pick), Miami Heat (Wade lottery pick).

And I believe the Lakers acquired Bryant from the Hornets. The Lakers didn't actually lose to acquire a lottery pick position.:club:

No mention of the Pistons, champ??

Ok, so I still have no idea what you are talking about, since the Bulls already drafted Derrick Rose. Is he NOT a lottery pick? Or does your "theory" not apply in this situation? Or does it change to "lottery pick that turns out to be a superstar"?

 

[FedEx227]

My theory is there's absolutely no reason to stand pat with Hinrich, Rose, Deng and Noah. We've seen that, it's not going to work. It's going to get you a 5th seed for the next five years. I don't want that, and nobody in Chicago should want that.

That's why I think you attempt to trade either Hinrich or Deng to clear up cap space and attempt to sign two max free agents (Joe Johnson and Chris Bosh, ideally).

Now if we bomb out and don't get those guys, I'm content because at least we tried and we'll be in a position to draft favorably again.

It's all about risk/reward. Standing pat with Hinrich and Deng is extremely low risk, but very minimal reward. We can MAYBE sign one max free agent but it's not a guarantee. That's not enough for me. Rose-Deng-Rudy Gay-Noah-Gibson is not an NBA title lineup. That's a sweet 6th seed in the NBA and a first round knockout every single year. Hooray.

Trading Hinrich or Deng is HIGH risk HIGH reward. You run the risk that you sign nobody or some low level guys and sputter, ending up with another lottery pick (which certainly isn't the end of the world). The reward is you sign two max free agents and go into next year with a lineup of Rose-Johnson-Deng-Bosh-Noah... that puts you RIGHT in the title hunt.

As the Bulls you have to take that risk in my mind. You have to put your team in a position to win an NBA Title down the line. Standing pat confirms that they are fine being a mid-level team in the NBA.

 

[Senser81]

The reward is you sign two max free agents and go into next year with a lineup of Rose-Johnson-Deng-Bosh-Noah... that puts you RIGHT in the title hunt.

You actually think the Bulls are signing Joe Johnson AND Chris Bosh?

Do you remember in years past when the Bulls were "left holding the bag" for guys like Ben Wallace and Larry Hughes?

I guess my problem with this whole scenario is that there has been no indication that Johnson and Bosh would want to play for the Bulls, much less James or Wade. It seems like this 'free up cap space' scheme by the Bulls every year is just a shot in the dark, based solely on the dreams and whims of teenage girls.

 

[FedEx227]

Both those guys are moving somewhere. That's all I know. James I think he's staying, Wade who knows. But Bosh, Amare and Johnson are on the move.

They haven't expressed an interest in where they are going to sign next year because that's grossly illegal to do so. It's all just idle speculation. The Bulls brass has to believe they are one of the more attractive teams with cap space on the market. We're competing essentially with the Knicks, Nets, Kings then obviously the teams that lose Johnson, Bosh and Amare so Hawks, Raptors, Suns and possibly Heat.

Compared with those teams we're a very attractive destination with Rose and Noah already in place, in a major market, for a pretty storied franchise.

 

[FirstTimer]

Or does it change to "lottery pick that turns out to be a superstar"?

That's what the original quote was.....was it not?

It's what you have him quoted as saying here:

http://www.virtualsportsnet.com/forum/1103418-post10.html

 

[Senser81]

Both those guys are moving somewhere. That's all I know. James I think he's staying, Wade who knows. But Bosh, Amare and Johnson are on the move.

They haven't expressed an interest in where they are going to sign next year because that's grossly illegal to do so.

Uhhhh....so you are basing it on dreams and whims of teenage girls?


In the times that I've been left speechless on VSN, its almost always been in The Locker Room. I've never been speechless in one of the sports forums, except for ram29jackson's bizarre postings.

So, congratulations to you.

 

[FedEx227]

Hahaha... so you want Joe Johnson to publicly declare "I want to sign with the Bulls next year" while he's still playing with the Atlanta Hawks or else there's no point to attempting to acquire him as a free agent.

What the hell?

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/167/hawks-johnson-has-high-praise-for-rose

 

[Senser81]

That's what the original quote was.....was it not?

It's what you have him quoted as saying here:

http://www.virtualsportsnet.com/forum/1103418-post10.html

1) So I guess you've concluded already that Derrick Rose ISN'T a superstar? I don't understand how anyone could possible make that statement this early in Rose's career.

2) He also said "find me a successful team", so I guess those title-winning Lakers and Pistons teams don't qualify as being "successful"?

 

[Senser81]

Hahaha... so you want Joe Johnson to publicly declare "I want to sign with the Bulls next year" while he's still playing with the Atlanta Hawks or else there's no point to attempting to acquire him as a free agent.

What the hell?

Again, uhhhh.....

Do you have a brain? Seriously. I asked you how you can be so certain that Joe Johnson and Chris Bosh will be signing with the Bulls because past history shows that the Bulls free agent plans never work...and your response is "what do you want Joe Johnson to do...publicly declare that he wants to sign with the Bulls next year?"

WTF? Thats my whole point. There is no indication that either Bosh or Johnson want to play for the Bulls, much less both of them. Perhaps the Bulls know something behind-the-scenes that the public doesn't know, but that has never been the case in the past.