Bull Pushing to deal Kirk Hinrich

[FedEx227]

You still should take the risk because it's been pretty well documented that they are interested in moving from their current teams.

No I'm not 100% positive we're getting both of them, but I'm willing to take the risk at the expense of breaking up a 6th seed eastern conference team.

 

[FirstTimer]

1) So I guess you've concluded already that Derrick Rose ISN'T a superstar?

I never said that I did or did not consider Derrick Rose a superstar. Ask FedEx. I was just pointing out FedEx already said what you claimed he was "changing" his story to.

That's all.

2) He also said "find me a successful team", so I guess those title-winning Lakers and Pistons teams don't qualify as being "successful"?

Pistons are the exception to the rule obviously. The Lakers most recent title run was built around a superstar lottery pick. Kobe Bryant.

 

[Senser81]

You still should take the risk because it's been pretty well documented that they are interested in moving from their current teams.

No I'm not 100% positive we're getting both of them, but I'm willing to take the risk at the expense of breaking up a 6th seed eastern conference team.

And that plan has worked so well in the past for the Bulls...

 

[FedEx227]

The Pistons broke a lot of NBA rules with their win. I have no problem admitting they were the exception to the rule. They were one of the more odd NBA champions of the past 50 years built around not really one superstar but a bunch of above-average guys. You'll be hard pressed to find another NBA title team that went by that method and won a title.

 

[FirstTimer]

And that plan has worked so well in the past for the Bulls...

No one is saying it has or it's promised to work this time.

I guess the question I would pose to you would be: What would your plan be?

 

[FedEx227]

And that plan has worked so well in the past for the Bulls...

1999-2000 Bulls went 17-65 and their leading scorers were Elton Brand, Toni Kukoc, Ron Artest, Chris Carr and Rusty LaRue.

They are not in any way comparable to this current Bulls team.

 

[Senser81]

I never said that I did or did not consider Derrick Rose a superstar. Ask FedEx. I was just pointing out FedEx already said what you claimed he was "changing" his story to.

No. FedEx said "superstar". I added the addition of "lottery pick that turns out to be a superstar", because FedEx has already concluded that Rose won't turn out to be a superstar. FedEx is using his own projections in his pooh-poohing of Derrick Rose never becoming a superstar.

To hold a 21 year old Derrick Rose to a "superstar" standard already would be incredibly retarded, even for FedEx (and you, evidently).

Pistons are the exception to the rule obviously. The Lakers most recent title run was built around a superstar lottery pick. Kobe Bryant.

Bryant was not a lottery pick of the Lakers. The Lakers did not waste a season in order to gain a lottery spot. Nice try, though.

 

[Senser81]

1999-2000 Bulls went 17-65 and their leading scorers were Elton Brand, Toni Kukoc, Ron Artest, Chris Carr and Rusty LaRue.

They are not in any way comparable to this current Bulls team.

Brand was a lottery pick, though! Step 1 of the championship blueprint was complete!

Are you SERIOUSLY still arguing WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED? :applause:

 

[Senser81]

I guess the question I would pose to you would be: What would your plan be?

Close up shop. Suspend operations for a year. Void all contracts. Re-enter the NBA in 2011 as an expansion team called the "Chicago Packers". Draw fans from upper Wisconsin. Sign no players from the expansion draft. Clear cap space. Sign Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill to huge contracts.

In 2012, Chicago will be known as Titletown, USA.

 

[FedEx227]

Brand was a lottery pick, though! Step 1 of the championship blueprint was complete!

Are you SERIOUSLY still arguing WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED? :applause:

Yes, it was. Brand would have been a solid building block.

Then Jerry Krause went full retard and we got the Curry/Chandler draft which was retarded and set the franchise back for years as most everyone in the league knew both players would amount to next to nothing and it was pretty dumb to trade an established lottery pick that you already HAD for an unproven, skinny 17 year old from Cali and a fat, out of shape high schooler from Chicago who was held scoreless in a IHSA playoff game.

 

[FedEx227]

Close up shop. Suspend operations for a year. Void all contracts. Re-enter the NBA in 2011 as an expansion team called the "Chicago Packers". Draw fans from upper Wisconsin. Sign no players from the expansion draft. Clear cap space. Sign Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill to huge contracts.

In 2012, Chicago will be known as Titletown, USA.

I'm actually pretty interested to hear your real plan.

 

[zack54attack]

The Bulls could have enough money to make a run at Bosh and Johnson, which is my ideal situation. That moves them from 5-8 seed, to a 1-4 seed instantly... We need to build around Rose and Noah, two good building blocks.

 

[FirstTimer]

No. FedEx said "superstar". I added the addition of "lottery pick that turns out to be a superstar",

So did FedEx edit his original psot that you quoted in Post 10? Because he specified superstar from a lottery pick.

To hold a 21 year old Derrick Rose to a "superstar" standard already would be incredibly retarded, even for FedEx (and you, evidently).

I never said I held Rose to any standard so chill out. Will Rose be a superstar? Who knows. I think he can be. Is he right now? No, but he's on his way IMO but Rose's development into a Superstar has very little to do with me still wanting the Bulls to go after one of the max guys this offseason. If you don't get a max guy then you still have Rose( a superstar in the making) to build around and if you do get a max guy then you have two on one team.

Bryant was not a lottery pick of the Lakers.

But they did immedietly trade for him and have had him since Day 1 so he is still a lottery pick the Lakers have been using since his first day in the NBA.

The Lakers did not waste a season in order to gain a lottery spot. Nice try, though.

The Bulls also don't have to do that this season. They already got Derrick Rose a few seasons ago and now can add another superstar to play with him. If the Bulls get one of the max guys then they didn't "waste" a season to get him, or another lottery pick/superstar. They already have one, or who they hope will keep developing into on in Derrick Rose.

 

[FirstTimer]

Close up shop. Suspend operations for a year. Void all contracts. Re-enter the NBA in 2011 as an expansion team called the "Chicago Packers". Draw fans from upper Wisconsin. Sign no players from the expansion draft. Clear cap space. Sign Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill to huge contracts.

In 2012, Chicago will be known as Titletown, USA.

Great.

I'd still like to hear your real plan.

 

[Senser81]

So did FedEx edit his original psot that you quoted in Post 10? Because he specified superstar from a lottery pick.

No, did I also edit my response to you so that its in white text?

 

[Senser81]

But they did immedietly trade for him and have had him since Day 1 so he is still a lottery pick the Lakers have been using since his first day in the NBA.

The Lakers finished 53-29 in 1995. Brain...is it missing?

 

[Senser81]

Yes, it was. Brand would have been a solid building block.

Then Jerry Krause went full retard and we got the Curry/Chandler draft which was retarded and set the franchise back for years as most everyone in the league knew both players would amount to next to nothing and it was pretty dumb to trade an established lottery pick that you already HAD for an unproven, skinny 17 year old from Cali and a fat, out of shape high schooler from Chicago who was held scoreless in a IHSA playoff game.

That wasn't the only year in which the Bulls franchise was set back for years. How many points have Ben Wallace and Larry Hughes scored for the Bulls this year? What about Eddie Robinson?

 

[FedEx227]

Oh god. I try to forget that Eddie Robinson deal.

The Larry Hughes acquisition was all money related and cap related. It was looking ahead to this offseason actually.

Btw, still waiting on what your plan would be since mine is so retarded...

 

[FirstTimer]

The Lakers finished 53-29 in 1995.

K.

Does that somehow mean that last years Lakers team wasn't built around lottery pick Kobe Bryant?

I'm not advocating the Bulls tanking a season to get a superstar. I think they, at worst, have one in the making in Derrick Rose. I'm advocating the Bulls doing all they can do to free up cap space in order to go after max guys to add to a team with Derrick Rose on it.

Again, what would your real plan be?

 

[Senser81]

I'm actually pretty interested to hear your real plan.

From what I heard, that the Bulls would need to jettison Hinrich, Deng, and Miller to acquire McGrady, I think thats too steep of a price to pay. You are getting rid of 3 regular players for cap space...a plan that has never worked in the past. I think Deng is overrated, but the Bulls might actually get something for him in return. I would guess the Bulls would have a better chance trading Deng for a future draft pick and then having that pick end up being a lottery pick than jettisoning half your regular rotation for cap space and hoping to sign Johnson and Bosh.

Rose has been effective with Hinrich at the other guard spot. Hinrich plays defense. Hinrich doesn't hog the ball like Gordon did. Noah has shown potential. I think the building blocks are there. I think those 3 guys are young and will be better than another Larry Hughes or Ben Wallace signing.

My plan is less aggressive than your plan, because the Bulls have never been able to sign "superstar" free agents.