Could LSU lose to Alabama in the National Championship and still be #1?

[FirstTimer]

, because its a championship game.

It's not their championship game.

 

[Youk]

Thanks Glen.

Welcome.

The AP Poll, if independent of the BCS game should be able to vote for whoever they feel is the NC.

Saying the AP Poll should automatically acknowledge the BCS game winner when they aren't even involved with that game is dumb.

Understandable. Looking on it, I don't think the AP Poll in general should be forced into automatically acknowledging the BCS Champion each season, but in this specific case, I have to say that voting for LSU as the #1 team in the AP after a loss just is an unfair shot at Alabama. I don't see how LSU can still be the #1 team after a loss to Alabama.

 

[FirstTimer]

Understandable. Looking on it, I don't think the AP Poll in general should be forced into automatically acknowledging the BCS Champion each season, but in this specific case, I have to say that voting for LSU as the #1 team in the AP after a loss just is an unfair shot at Alabama. I don't see how LSU can still be the #1 team after a loss to Alabama.

Two things here.

1. I don't think it's an unfair shot at Bama depending how the game plays out. LSU has had a hell of a season. Like I mentioned in another thread if LSU loses to Bama the way Bama lost to LSU the first time....I don't think it's unfair if a poll decided LSU was the NC.

2. I don't know how Bama can play LSU for the championship if they've already lost to LSU, didn't win their division or conference but that's been covered.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

It's not their championship game.

This goes back to the argument we were having pages ago, where i said you could say the same thing if we had a playoff...the AP would be allowed to crown whoever they want, but crowning anyone other than the playoff winner would be irrelevant.

Obviously we dont have a playoff, but we have a championship game, so the premise is the same.

 

[FirstTimer]

where i said you could say the same thing if we had a playoff.

Except for the fact that we already covered how people's perceptions of a playoff and how they work and what they determine would rpevent that from happening in contrast to the way things are now.

Try and keep up.

 

[Youk]

Two things here.

1. I don't think it's an unfair shot at Bama depending how the game plays out. LSU has had a hell of a season. Like I mentioned in another thread if LSU loses to Bama the way Bama lost to LSU the first time....I don't think it's unfair if a poll decided LSU was the NC.

2. I don't know how Bama can play LSU for the championship if they've already lost to LSU, didn't win their division or conference but that's been covered.

1. Bama has had a hell of a season, as well. The only close game score wise that they had was a loss against LSU that was 9-6. If LSU loses though, is Bama is end all, be all best team in the country? No. Is LSU the best team in the country? No. However, because of the loss I would move LSU down to #2, and Alabama to #1. It'd be bullshit to put LSU down to #3 (and it would never happen).

2. Agree on that. I think it's horseshit that OK State was ranked #2 in most of the computer rankings, but then gets placed 3rd in the BCS.

Not saying I agree on what I'm about to say, but do you think that voters would be crazy enough to vote for OK State over Bama, even if Bama wins a championship? I really doubt it, but that would be a wonderful thing to happen to really fuck the BCS over. :troll:

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Except for the fact that we already covered how people's perceptions of a playoff and how they work and what they determine would rpevent that from happening in contrast to the way things are now.

Try and keep up.

1) You dont know how people would vote if we had a 4 team playoff, you are just assuming based on your own beliefs.

2) I dont care about "people's perception", they apparantly dont have the proper perception of what a championship game is.

3) Im saying you could make the same case in both situations, which is factually correct.

 

[Youk]

1) You dont know how people would vote if we had a 4 team playoff, you are just assuming based on your own beliefs.

That's what we're all assuming though, including yourself. This is all speculative, as is all friggen sports discussions.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

That's what we're all assuming though, including yourself. This is all speculative, as is all friggen sports discussions.

Correct, im not even trying to assume how people would feel, im just saying you could make the exact same case in both scenarios.

 

[FirstTimer]

1. Bama has had a hell of a season, as well.

But they don't have the wins LSU does..hell it was debatable if they had a better season than Okie St.

But I digress...that isn't the point. Would it be an unfair "shot" at Bama is LSU won the AP poll in certain scenarios? No.

You of course could make a case for Bama to win both, but I don't think it would be an unfair spiteful shot at them if they didn't. Obviously LSU would still have a hell of a case as well.

If LSU loses though, is Bama is end all, be all best team in the country? No.

And that's why I don't think it would be an "unfair shot" at them if they weren't ranked #1 by the AP if the game played out certain ways.

Not saying I agree on what I'm about to say, but do you think that voters would be crazy enough to vote for OK State over Bama,

I'll never underestimate voters..but I doubt it. I think the Okie St outrage ship has sailed. They'd have a better chance IMO if the games happened "while the controversy iron was hot" so to speak. If say the Bowls were early December and Okie St beat Stanford pretty convincingly and Bama kind of slogged through a game against LSU and won then Okie St would have a shot..but even then LSU would more than likely have the better shot at the AP title.

 

[FirstTimer]

1) You dont know how people would vote if we had a 4 team playoff, you are just assuming based on your own beliefs.

Except for the fact that we have mountains of evidence showing how people view playoff results that would point to the direct opposite of your perceived "major issue".

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Except for the fact that we have mountains of evidence showing how people view playoff results that would point to the direct opposite of your perceived "major issue".

Im not saying its a major issue anymore, im past that, im not gonna assume how people would feel.

I gave the example earlier, what if we had a 4 team playoff selected and crowned by the BCS?? (which is a very real possibility)

Then we would have a BCS crowned playoff winner, and a separate AP winner...2 separate championships, just like now.

The AP doesnt have to vote for the playoff winner in that scenario.

 

[Youk]

But they don't have the wins LSU does..hell it was debatable if they had a better season than Okie St.

But I digress...that isn't the point. Would it be an unfair "shot" at Bama is LSU won the AP poll in certain scenarios? No.

You of course could make a case for Bama to win both, but I don't think it would be an unfair spiteful shot at them if they didn't. Obviously LSU would still have a hell of a case as well.

That's true. It's not a "coin flip", but cases can really be made for either side.

I'll never underestimate voters..but I doubt it. I think the Okie St outrage ship has sailed. They'd have a better chance IMO if the games happened "while the controversy iron was hot" so to speak. If say the Bowls were early December and Okie St beat Stanford pretty convincingly and Bama kind of slogged through a game against LSU and won then Okie St would have a shot..but even then LSU would more than likely have the better shot at the AP title.

I can only wish. Would have been a great topic of debate for the off-season.

 

[FirstTimer]

Im not saying its a major issue anymore

Ok.

I gave the example earlier, what if we had a 4 team playoff selected and crowned by the BCS?? (which is a very real possibility)

Then we would have a BCS crowned playoff winner, and a separate AP winner...2 separate championships, just like now

:yawn:

Asked, answered, covered as to the AP would fall in line with the playoff results.

 

[FirstTimer]

I can only wish. Would have been a great topic of debate for the off-season.

Way to go Youk.

Now what the hell are we going to talk about?!

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Asked, answered, covered as to the AP would fall in line with the playoff results.

Yeah, but your explanation was flawed.

People should fall in line with a championship game, but they dont.

So those people are idiotic hypocrites, if they fall in line with a BCS playoff but not a BCS title game.

 

[Youk]

Im not saying its a major issue anymore, im past that, im not gonna assume how people would feel.

I gave the example earlier, what if we had a 4 team playoff selected and crowned by the BCS?? (which is a very real possibility)

Then we would have a BCS crowned playoff winner, and a separate AP winner...2 separate championships, just like now.

The AP doesnt have to vote for the playoff winner in that scenario.

Honestly, if this ever happened, it would no longer be the BCS, just something else, just as we had the Bowl Coalition and the Bowl Alliance.

If this were to happen, it would be best for the NCAA to get into bed with the AP and work with them to make this happen. That's the only way that the major championship would be guaranteed to be given to a single team. You could never stop smaller committees from handing out their championship to a random team, but those happen all the time and don't matter. The big two are the BCS and AP. Dump the BCS if you move to a new system, and use only the AP.

 

[FirstTimer]

Yeah, but your explanation was flawed.

No it's not.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

No it's not.

BCS 4 team playoff..."ill vote for the winner".

BCS championship game..."i wont vote for the winner".

Flawed logic is flawed.

 

[FirstTimer]

BCS 4 team playoff..."ill vote for the winner".

BCS championship game..."i wont vote for the winner".
.

Congrats. You've now discovered how people view a playoff and how it shapes the perception of the playoff winner being "more legit".

We've been over this.