Dave sees Bill Simmons' top-32 QBs and raises him with his top-32 QBs (NFL)

[Rayman]

Brees was on SD teams loaded with talent, and could barely sneak them into the playoffs most years.
He was run out of town, and they immediately improved with Rivers, surrounded by largely the same cast of characters. So I don't know where you get this idea that he's played on awful teams.

And I still don't understand why its insulting to think he would be the 4th best QB in the league. Is it that outlandish to think Manning, Brady, and one other guy could possibly be better? You guys defend Brees like he's your boyfriend.

Ummmmm....

It works wonders.

 

[Tailback U]

RayMan, can you please take that pic of Dez Bryant out of your sig.

I can't stop staring at his dick.

No homo....?

 

[Rayman]

RayMan, can you please take that pic of Dez Bryant out of your sig.

I can't stop staring at his dick.

No homo....?

I'll change it come Sunday night.

Just think of your precious dirt stars in the meantime.







:shifty:

 

[Tailback U]

He makes me feel like a chump.

 

[Rayman]

He makes me feel like a chump.

He could stand to wear a jockstap.

He's gotta be uncomfortable.

 

[nflman2033]

lets not forget that when Brees was in SD he had Marty run the ball all the time as his Head Coach

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Different eras. Brees plays in an era where bums complete 60% and throw for 4000.

This is why I LOL at "Not even close" or "has to be top #" and giving props to Rodgers in the playoff game with just about the worst played defense Ive ever witnessed in a big game.

In this league with its lax rules theres virtually nothing to truly test a QB and have him force his team to victory. An easy Dec schedule and a playcaller could catapult him to no3 while questionable calls and a small injury can drop a guy out of the top 10.

Theres nothing Ive ever seen out of Brees that I havent seen out of Rodgers , Rivers , Schaub , Romo and maybe 1-2 others. Theyre interchangeable and all playing the NFL version of tee ball.

Manning,Warner , Brady. Only guys who IMO have that 'something' and theyre a combined 0-3 in there last SB appearances. People need to stop defending guys so blindly.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

lets not forget that when Brees was in SD he had Marty run the ball all the time as his Head Coach

With the greatest RB of this decade. Under an I-formation with the 2nd best TE of this generation. Extra linebackers and 8 guys in the box is supposed to make the QBs job easier. He didnt deliver in SD. It has to be held against him.

 

[Tailback U]

Don't forget about his all world receivers Kenan McCardell and Eric Parker, either.

I don't get why so many people are so in love with Peyton Manning. I know it has to do with his regular season record, but don't you think he'd have more than 1 SB by now if he was the best of all time, like so many say he is?

Guy has played 2 hall of fame receivers and one of the best tight ends in the league for quite some time now.

He is great, no doubt, and one of the best of all time. But why is everyone else so far behind him? Because of his regular season record?

 

[NAHSTE]

They are hall of fame receivers because of Peyton Manning. Dallas Clark is a top receiving threat because of Peyton Manning.

He doesn't just run the offense, he orchestrates it. Manning is the best QB because he's the quintessential "field general".

 

[FirstTimer]

Don't forget about his all world receivers Kenan McCardell and Eric Parker, either.

I don't get why so many people are so in love with Peyton Manning. I know it has to do with his regular season record, but don't you think he'd have more than 1 SB by now if he was the best of all time, like so many say he is?

Guy has played 2 hall of fame receivers and one of the best tight ends in the league for quite some time now.

He is great, no doubt, and one of the best of all time. But why is everyone else so far behind him? Because of his regular season record?

It's not 1950 anymore. Hell it's not even the early 1990's anymore. With some many players changing teams and moving around as they do now it makes repeating success and having longer term success tougher. Players get good and want their pay day or they move on. In the 1980's if the 49ers would have somehow lost a Super Bowl, barring injuries or the draft, you'd have essentially the same team coming back. Same with the Packers of the 60's the Colts of the 50's, Steelers of the 70's etc.

Manning loses one game now in December or January and risks losing quite a few important players from sides of the ball he can't control, or even from the offensive side of the ball he can. He also has to deal with other teams trying to play catch up and bringing in good players from other teams. Sure the Colts can attempt to improve too but the entire league is more fluid than it ever has been and IMO it's tougher now for the top teams to stay on top than before. So the fact that Manning is routinely in the playoffs, making some decent runs, going to a couple SB's, winning one with some vastly different teams, is really impressive to me. I mean his WR's last year were Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, and Dallas Clark.

IMO the teams like the Steelers, Pats, Colts, that have had some really sustained success this decade may be more impressive than some of the dynasties of decades past do in large part the changed nature of the football business and player movement. Things are much and can be much less stable from season to season thus I think longevity of success now could be interpreted as more impressive than it was before.

 

[Anthony]

They are hall of fame receivers because of Peyton Manning. Dallas Clark is a top receiving threat because of Peyton Manning.

He doesn't just run the offense, he orchestrates it. Manning is the best QB because he's the quintessential "field general".

This.

The man control's everything on offense.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

This.

The man control's everything on offense.

He knows how to help his defense as well.

Best comparison I could come up with is with Marino. Marino had some decent D's but several bad ones. Yet his approach never changed. You give him 3:38 on the clock down by 7 and theres a nice chance hes marching down the field and scoring in under a minute. Problem is all too often his tired defense would be right back on the field and give up huge chunks of yards.
Manning will take that 3:38 and milk the shit out of it. He knows when to break that huddle , rush to the line and give his defense a chance.
On top of that hes the best of the current crop of forcing weak players into making tough decisions. He"ll change plays and routes and force the defenders to adjust and make snap decisions.

Every good QB does it to some extent. But no QB is asked to do it as much and delivers as well as Manning. To me thats what seperates him.

 

[BigBucs]

If people dont "get" why we/fans are so enamored with Manning then they simply have 0 idea what they are witnessing when they are tuning in on Sundays.

 

[Tailback U]

I know full well what Manning does on offense and how he is the ultimate "player/coach."

But I don't think that alone should make him hands down way better than anybody else that has ever played the position.

Manning threw a pick last year that lost him the Super Bowl. In the same game, Brees outplayed him and won the game.

I understand that Manning is probably controlling more, but how much more? Does anyone know? Unless we're on the field with Brees and Manning, how do we know who has more control?

We see Manning making more calls and we've been told that nobody comes close as far as calling out OL blocking schemes, blitzers, etc., but does that alone make him far and away better than anyone ever? It's immeasurable because we don't know how much more he knows than the other guys who have played the position just as good as he has (statistically).

I'm just bringing this up for discussion. As I've said, Manning is my #1. But I do find it kind of odd how he is always talked about as being mentally way ahead of any QB to ever play the game. I find it hard to believe that guys like Warner, Brady, and Brees are lightyears behind Manning in terms of the mental aspect of the position.

 

[BigBucs]

You simply dont see any other QB do what he does. We may not know how much he is actually doing but Im fairly certain its far more than any other QB in the game. Watching him work pre snap is a thing of beauty. And more often than not he gashes a defense after 39 seconds of pre snap adjustments.

 

[mcstl25]

Agreed, Tailback. Same point I was trying to make like 10 pages ago. Brees is criticized for only winning one superbowl, but that same point for whatever reason seems to go ignored with Manning. Both are great QBs, and Manning IMO is the better QB, but I don't get the one superbowl argument.

Anyway... just for fun.

My top 10 active QB's with best career

1) Tom Brady
2) Payton Manning
3) Brett Favre
4) Drew Brees
5) Ben Roethlisberger
6) Donovan McNabb
7) Eli Manning
8) Matt Hasselbeck
9) Aaron Rodgers
10) Phillip Rivers

My top 10 QB's looking forward into 2010 (i.e., which QBs will have the best 2010 season)

1) Drew Brees
2) Aaron Rodgers
3) Payton Manning
4) Tom Brady
5) Matt Schaub
6) Phillip Rivers
7) Brett Favre
8) Jay Cutler
9) Tony Romo
10) Joe Flacco

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

A couple of years ago, when the Colts had that atrocious run D, Manning would intentionally stall drives to keep the defense off the field.

He has the best field awareness i've ever seen. He literally never gets sacked. He doesnt fumble. He wins 12+ games every single season, and don't think for one second it isnt a 5 win team without him. For all the talk of his bad postseason loses, he has also been punished by missed FG's & freak plays that cost him important games. He makes throws that Brady, Brees, and anyone short of Favre couldnt make in their dreams.

Put any QB you want on the Colts (except maybe Favre, who makes any team better), and they decline greatly and never make the playoffs. About a half dozen or more guys could step right onto the Saints and throw for 5k. That's the difference.

Put Manning on that loaded SD team the last decade, and he bags multiple titles with minimal effort.

 

[FirstTimer]

Agreed, Tailback. Same point I was trying to make like 10 pages ago. Brees is criticized for only winning one superbowl, but that same point for whatever reason seems to go ignored with Manning. Both are great QBs, and Manning IMO is the better QB, but I don't get the one superbowl argument.

I see your point and Super Bowls alone can come off as a bit of tunnel vision but what helps Manning out a lot in "Super Bowl" conversations..and I think people are more beating around the bush and talking playoff appearances and success in general...is the fact that Manning has been habitually making the playoffs his entire career. He's been to the playoffs 10 times in 12 seasons. One season was his rookie year. The guy hasn't missed the playoffs since the 2001 season. For better or for worse the guy is always around come playoff time. And frankly when you make the playoffs that much carrying your team at times you are bound to carry some teams there that shouldn't belong. Perhaps because they have a bad running game, or a bad defense, etc but Manning always has his team at least in the hunt.

Brees has made the playoffs 3 times his entire career.

Yeah Brees is a really really good QB but there's a really good reason Manning gets the praise he does. He's just that damn great/impressive.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Manning doesnt just make the playoffs every year, he wins 12+ games and has the Colts at the top of the league, year in year out. He's not sneaking in the backdoor at 9-7.

The fact he "only" has one SB win is the only possible knock anyone can have on the man. Think about that for a second. His big negative is he only won one SB.