Dave sees Bill Simmons' top-32 QBs and raises him with his top-32 QBs (NFL)

[Primetime]

In three full seasons, Cutler has 76 touchdowns, 58 interceptions, and 24 fumbles. No thanks.

 

[Aso]

4,526 passing yards and a 62.3% completion rate is pretty impressive IMO.
I would have put him in the top 8 after 2008 myself.
And, in fairness to Cutler, his surrounding cast in Chicago is incredibly shitty.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7760/career

None of anything you posted suggested he's a top 5-7 quarterback, and 18 interceptions, you forgot that one. Since when was slightly above the league average for a starter in completion % all of a sudden make you a top 5-7 quarterback.

 

[dave]

None of anything you posted suggested he's a top 5-7 quarterback, and 18 interceptions, you forgot that one. Since when was slightly above the league average for a starter in completion % all of a sudden make you a top 5-7 quarterback.

Again ... breathe deeply ... MY opinion.
You're not forced to agree.

 

[wr50l]

Again ... breathe deeply ... MY opinion.
You're not forced to agree.

If you post your opinion on a forum, you're subliminally asking others to critique it.

 

[Tailback U]

Let's say Drew Brees never wins another playoff game. Would dave's ranking look so bad in hindsight? Everyone who wins a SB is always massively overated the next year. If Favre runs out of bounds for a 4 yard gain, and the Vikings go on to beat Indy, you'd have people putting Favre #1 and Brees around #10, and no one would blink. Brees had trouble performing in the clutch his entire career before last year. Every bounce and break went the Saints way. I think #4 is fair. Guy had a nothing resume for 8 yhears. He's no lock to repeat anything he did last year.

Nothing resume for 8 years?

Here you go, once again, crediting one player for winning a super bowl (Manning) and then discrediting another player who has won a super bowl (Brees) all because you don't like him.

Drew Brees has been playing at an elite level for the last 6 years.

2004 w/SD: 3159 yards, 27 touchdowns, 7 INT, 65.5%.

2005 w/SD: 3,576 yards, 24 TDs, 15 INT, 64.3 %.

2006: 4418 yards, 26 TDs, 11 INTs, 64.3%.

2007: 4423 yards, 28 TDs, 18 INT, 67.5%

2008: 5069 yards, 34 TDs, 17 INT, 65%

2009: 4388 yards, 34 TDs, 11 INT, 70.6%.

Peyton Manning has never thrown for over 5,000 yards.

Peyton Manning has never completed over 70% of his passes.

Peyton Manning's INT% is 2.8, Drew Brees' INT % is 2.6.

Drew Brees 5 years in San Diego: 12,348 yards, 80 Touchdowns, 53 INT, 62% completion, 84.9 QB Rating, 30-28 record.

Drew Brees 4 years in New Orleans: 18,298 yards, 122 Touchdowns, 57 INT, 66% completion, 97.3 QB Rating, 38-25 record, 1 Super Bowl victory.

As you can see, Drew Brees has been on absolute tear the last 4 years (since he joined the Saints) and it doesn't look like the guy is going to be slowing down any time soon.

I'm not saying Drew Brees is as good as Peyton Manning. But the fact that some still think that Drew Brees isn't a top 2-3 QB in this league is baffling to me, and I wouldn't bash anyone for arguing that he is playing like the best QB in the league right now considering the season he just had.

The Super Bowl victory and the Saints record last season is just icing on the cake and shows what he can do when he has a defense to help him out. Just look at his stats from last season, they are unreal.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

All I said was ranking him 4th is fair, and not really worth bashing someone over. I can repost all of the AWFUL 4thQ and late season numbers over again, but I'm not in the mood to rehash the same shit all over again. Brees was a guy who always threw for a bunch of yards, but never won a big game, hardly ever made the playoffs, and had horrendous 4thQ meltdowns. Last year made all of that somewhat moot, but the point of my original post was that if he has another 4000, 8-8, bad -in-the-clutch typical Brees year, is it really crazy to think he's just another top 10 or so guy? I'm not ready to crown him after one year of real success. He was Jim Everett before last year.

 

[Tailback U]

You've always hated him, for whatever reason.

He's been an elite QB for quite some time now, he's just played on some really shitty teams.

By the way, Drew Bledsoe is credited with 32 fourth quarter comebacks - one more than Joe Montana. Just saying.

I don't agree with Brees at #1, but just thought I'd throw this into the discussion since it's noteworthy.

Without a Reggie Wayne or Randy Moss at receiver, or Pittsburgh's defense, or Adrian Peterson, Drew Brees has been the most prolific quarterback in the NFL the past two years. And with the Super Bowl ring he won this past year, he should be considered the leader in the clubhouse, the top dog, the big kahuna, the big cheese, big chief quarterback.

Brees should be considered the best.

Since arriving in New Orleans four seasons ago, Brees has averaged a 66.9 completion percentage, 31 touchdowns to 14 interceptions, 4,575 passing yards, and a 97.9 passer rating. Last season, he led the Saints to three fourth-quarter comebacks and six game-winning drives, including in the Super Bowl. In his career, he has led the Saints and San Diego Chargers to twelve fourth-quarter comebacks and 20 game-winning drives.

He has had a great coach and a great scheme in New Orleans, but Brees is the one executing it to perfection, rarely missing a deep shot, taking the check-down to keep the chains moving, and putting points on the board at record rates.

Simply put, Brees is the best.

For now.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...with-the-ball-in-the-last-two-minutes#page/11

 

[Tailback U]

He was Jim Everett before last year.

Comparing Brees to Everett is ridiculous, by the way.

Everett had a 57.7 career completion percentage and a 3.8 INT percentage. He had a few years where he put up some good numbers but he was not even close to Brees in terms of accuracy and decision making.

Drew Brees is nearly identical to Manning in terms of completion percentage and INT %. Which are two of the most important categories, IMO.

 

[NAHSTE]

Fuck Drew Brees though. He's not better than Peyton Manning. He's just not.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Brees was on SD teams loaded with talent, and could barely sneak them into the playoffs most years.
He was run out of town, and they immediately improved with Rivers, surrounded by largely the same cast of characters. So I don't know where you get this idea that he's played on awful teams.

And I still don't understand why its insulting to think he would be the 4th best QB in the league. Is it that outlandish to think Manning, Brady, and one other guy could possibly be better? You guys defend Brees like he's your boyfriend.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Comparing Brees to Everett is ridiculous, by the way.

Everett had a 57.7 career completion percentage and a 3.8 INT percentage. He had a few years where he put up some good numbers but he was not even close to Brees in terms of accuracy and decision making.

Drew Brees is nearly identical to Manning in terms of completion percentage and INT %. Which are two of the most important categories, IMO.

Different eras. Brees plays in an era where bums complete 60% and throw for 4000.

Everett & Brees, statistically speaking, had very similar careers up until last year. Big passing stats, virtually no postseason appearances/success. Notorious choking in clutch situations.

That's moot now, but my point was that Brees could easily regress to what he's always been, which is a pretty good QB who you would never speak in the same breath as anyone great. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Tailback U]

Brees was on SD teams loaded with talent, and could barely sneak them into the playoffs most years.
He was run out of town, and they immediately improved with Rivers, surrounded by largely the same cast of characters. So I don't know where you get this idea that he's played on awful teams.

lol those SD teams were not loaded with talent dude. His starting receivers were Kenan McCardell and Eric Parker. Get real. And what has Rivers done since Brees has left?

And I still don't understand why its insulting to think he would be the 4th best QB in the league. Is it that outlandish to think Manning, Brady, and one other guy could possibly be better? You guys defend Brees like he's your boyfriend.

I'm not insulted at all. I just think it's silly how you discredit all of Brees accomplishments and statistics for no apparent reason.

Like I said, I can understand people putting Manning and Brady above Brees. I can also understand people putting Brees above Brady and Manning right now. Career wise, no, but right now, he is playing as good as anyone and the stats and ring prove it.

 

[Tailback U]

Different eras. Brees plays in an era where bums complete 60% and throw for 4000.

Everett & Brees, statistically speaking, had very similar careers up until last year. Big passing stats, virtually no postseason appearances/success. Notorious choking in clutch situations.

That's moot now, but my point was that Brees could easily regress to what he's always been, which is a pretty good QB who you would never speak in the same breath as anyone great. That's all I'm saying.

Alright well we've had this debate a couple times and it always comes down to "time will tell."

I still remember you and Nuk bashing Brees and his "empty stats" and "1 playoff victory in 9 years." All he's done since then is win a super bowl and lead the league in quarterback efficiency yet you still doubt him. What else do you want the guy to do?

I'm not saying he's one of the greatest QB's of all time. I'm just saying he was the best QB in the league last season.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

He had a great year, you can't quote me saying otherwise.

All i'm saying, is it's not some crime against humanity to say he's the 4th best QB in the league.

 

[Tailback U]

Nobody said it was. And I'm not saying it's a crime to rank him #1. This is a rankings discussion. Anything can and should be discussed. I'm just arguing your statement about Brees being ranked #10 had the Saints lost to the Vikings.

I just think it's odd how a lot of people don't seem to realize how good Brees is playing right now.

 

[Aso]

By the way, Drew Bledsoe is credited with 32 fourth quarter comebacks - one more than Joe Montana. Just saying.

Never again. Bledsoe has 24 while Montana has 31 and for game winning drives Montana has 2 more as well.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Never again. Bledsoe has 24 while Montana has 31 and for game winning drives Montana has 2 more as well.

4thQ comebacks is not an official stat, and is calculted differently by different sources.

For example, let's say Team A is trailing by 2 points at the end of the third Q. On the first play of the 4thQ, Team A kicks a fg to take a 1 point lead, and that ends up being the final score. Some sources credit that as a 4thQ comeback for the QB, which is obviously ridiculous.

Another scenerio...Team A takes the lead in the 4th on an INT return. The Team A QB goes 0-4 with 4 INT's for the rest of the game, but his team wins. Again, some sources count this as a 4thQ comeback.

These are extreme examples, but there are a bunch of others that you can probably think of yourself that are equally confusing and legitimately can go either way. All sources treat each one differently.

 

[Aso]

4thQ comebacks is not an official stat, and is calculted differently by different sources.

For example, let's say Team A is trailing by 2 points at the end of the third Q. On the first play of the 4thQ, Team A kicks a fg to take a 1 point lead, and that ends up being the final score. Some sources credit that as a 4thQ comeback for the QB, which is obviously ridiculous.

Another scenerio...Team A takes the lead in the 4th on an INT return. The Team A QB goes 0-4 with 4 INT's for the rest of the game, but his team wins. Again, some sources count this as a 4thQ comeback.

These are extreme examples, but there are a bunch of others that you can probably think of yourself that are equally confusing and legitimately can go either way. All sources treat each one differently.

But pro-football-reference rates all QB's the same. The comebacks stats are usually held by the teams who do, do them differently. That site has a blog about that too. But with pro-football-reference doing all of that the same way and having definitions of what they consider a 4thQ CB and GW drive I believe theirs to be accurate.

 

[Tailback U]

Exactly, which is why I roll my eyes when people start calling Brees a choke artist and bring up his 4th quarter record or whatever.

 

[Anthony]

Brees could arguably be the #2 QB in all of football. IMO, he is.