Did Manning re-open the MVP discussion today?

[Esjay]

I don't understand how Rodgers isn't in the talks. I guess I'm looking for a legitimate reason. 33 total touchdowns, leads rushing for qbs as well. Plays behind the most inconsistent line in football yet still threads. Packers are one play away from being 11-4 and are 6-1 in the last 7 games I believe?

Rodgers is very good but I'd have Manning, Chris Johnson, and Philip Rivers ahead of him for sure.

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

I don't understand how Rodgers isn't in the talks. I guess I'm looking for a legitimate reason. 33 total touchdowns, leads rushing for qbs as well. Plays behind the most inconsistent line in football yet still threads. Packers are one play away from being 11-4 and are 6-1 in the last 7 games I believe?

I think Rodgers is in the talks for MVP. I also think there are about 6-7 players that all could be in the talks for MVP.

In no particular:
Rodgers
Favre
Rivers
Brady
Brees
Manning

I think anyone could make a case for either one of those guys to win the MVP. I think the QB play in the league this year has been great. When its all said in done I think we could possibly have 11 QB's with over 4000 yards and 8 possibly with 4400 yards.

 

[MrBill]

Considering you're over 40 and I'm 19 and in the prime of my life, I'd be willing to bet I get a lot more pussy than you.

And no I do not have any recollection of meeting George. I do, however, have recollection of watching the AFC Championship against Pittsburgh with Jim Harbaugh under center. You know, the one where Aaron Bailey dropped the hail mary at the end of the game?

Go fuck yourself you idiot.

Yes, I'm sure that a living at home 19 year old is quite the hit with the ladies :laugh:

If you didn't remember even meeting Jeff George, then why the fuck did you insert that random fact into a discussion about what Manning meant to the Colts vs. what Favre meant to the Packers? Jeff George was a hack and a blip on the radar of the Colts history. If and when Manning ends up playing for another team is the only thing that would be comparable to Favre leaving the Packers. Until you have something to compare in context, STFU.

I'm glad that you do have recollection of Harbaugh failing to win the AFC championship game while sitting on your daddy's lap eating cheetos and getting that orange cheese dust all over his remote. Must have been a big moment for you. Did he take you to Chuck E. Cheese when it was over?

 

[Goober]

Yes, I'm sure that a living at home 19 year old is quite the hit with the ladies :laugh:

If you didn't remember even meeting Jeff George, then why the fuck did you insert that random fact into a discussion about what Manning meant to the Colts vs. what Favre meant to the Packers? Jeff George was a hack and a blip on the radar of the Colts history. If and when Manning ends up playing for another team is the only thing that would be comparable to Favre leaving the Colts. Until you have something to compare in context, STFU.

I'm glad that you do have recollection of Harbaugh failing to win the AFC championship game while sitting on your daddy's lap eating cheetos and getting that orange cheese dust all over his remote. Must have been a big moment for you. Did he take you to Chuck E. Cheese when it was over?

:bizzaro:

 

[MrBill]

Just for shits and giggles, I would like for anyone to find where in this thread that I said Favre deserved the MVP over Manning. You Manning nuthuggers just assumed that and started tearing into Favre, who by the way, is having the best season of his 19 year career at age 40. The only thing I said was the Manning had a pedestrian day on Sunday...which he did and posed the question of did he open the door for anybody else. Nobody else that was on the MVP watch lists did anything big enough to get back into the running. Brees lost to the Bucs, Rivers had an ok day, Favre was an AP fumble away from the biggest comeback of his career but still lost and Chris Johnson failed to keep up the pace to break the all time rushing record (which he would have needed to legitimately have a shot).

Rodgers is playing awfully well right now but unfortunately for him, the Packers started the season off at 4-4 and are only 2-4 against winning teams this year. I think those are the biggest knocks on his year but if I were Rodgers or any other player, I would rather have the Superbowl trophy than the MVP award any day of the week. Ask Tom Brady :laugh:

 

[NAHSTE]

Just for shits and giggles, I would like for anyone to find where in this thread that I said Favre deserved the MVP over Manning. You Manning nuthuggers just assumed that and started tearing into Favre, who by the way, is having the best season of his 19 year career at age 40. The only thing I said was the Manning had a pedestrian day on Sunday...which he did and posed the question of did he open the door for anybody else. Nobody else that was on the MVP watch lists did anything big enough to get back into the running. Brees lost to the Bucs, Rivers had an ok day, Favre was an AP fumble away from the biggest comeback of his career but still lost and Chris Johnson failed to keep up the pace to break the all time rushing record (which he would have needed to legitimately have a shot).

Rodgers is playing awfully well right now but unfortunately for him, the Packers started the season off at 4-4 and are only 2-4 against winning teams this year. I think those are the biggest knocks on his year but if I were Rodgers or any other player, I would rather have the Superbowl trophy than the MVP award any day of the week. Ask Tom Brady :laugh:

Which is irrelevant to the MVP debate since Manning's season has been better.

 

[FirstTimer]

Which is irrelevant to the MVP debate since Manning's season has been better.

This.

Plus I would rank some of Brett's mid 1990's MVP seasons over this one by far.

 

[NAHSTE]

This.

Plus I would rank some of Brett's mid 1990's MVP seasons over this one by far.

Yeah, I almost said that too, didn't feel like clicking my bookmarks tab to access profootballreference and find out, but he won 3 straight MVPs in the 90s, I'd think at least one of those seasons was better than this year.

 

[FirstTimer]

Yeah, I almost said that too, didn't feel like clicking my bookmarks tab to access profootballreference and find out, but he won 3 straight MVPs in the 90s, I'd think at least one of those seasons was better than this year.

IMO all three were. Nearly 40 TD's and less than 16INT's threw for around 4,000 average. His completion % was lower but he was throwing deep a lot more often back then compared to now. Plus this Vikings team is already very talented and Favre really hasn't improved them by a ton so far. Only 1 game. Favre WAS those Green Bay teams in the Mid 1990's....especially on offense.

1995 4413yds 38td 15int 63%
1996 3899yds 39td 13int 59.9%
1997 3867yds 35td 16int 59.3%

Average during those seasons: 4059yds 37td 15int 61%

 

[MrBill]

IMO all three were. Nearly 40 TD's and less than 16INT's threw for around 4,000 average. His completion % was lower but he was throwing deep a lot more often back then compared to now. Plus this Vikings team is already very talented and Favre really hasn't improved them by a ton so far. Only 1 game. Favre WAS those Green Bay teams in the Mid 1990's....especially on offense.

1995 4413yds 38td 15int 63%
1996 3899yds 39td 13int 59.9%
1997 3867yds 35td 16int 59.3%

Average during those seasons: 4059yds 37td 15int 61%

Again, I am not saying that Favre is more deserving of the MVP award than Manning this this season but for purposes of rebuttal, he is having a year that is right up there with his MVP run of the 90's. The Vikings with their OL and DST issues would be more like 7-9 or 8-8 this year with TJack vs. Favre. It is foolish to compare TJack to Favre in what he brings to an offense. Looking at AP's stats and fumble issues this year vs. last year, I think it is safe to say that Favre IS the Vikings team this season.

If you take Favre's average game this season (259 yards, 2 TD's) and add it to his stats for the Giants game, this is how it would stack up. Since you brought up Favre's throwing long more in his MVP years, I thought it would be nice to point out that his average yards per reception (good indicator of long passes) is also the highest of his career. Guess you have missed out on some of those bombs to Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin.

1995 4413yds 38td 15int 63% 7.7 AVG QB Rating 99.5
1996 3899yds 39td 13int 59.9% 7.5 AVG QB Rating 95.8
1997 3867yds 35td 16int 59.3% 7.2 AVG QB Rating 92.6
AVG 4045yds 37td 15int 60.7% 7.4 AVG QB Rating 95.9
2009 4145yds 31td 7int 67.6% 7.8 AVG QB Rating 104.3

How is that so dissimilar from when he won 3 straight MVP awards? Again for Manning nuthuggers, this is not saying Favre deserves the award this year but it ridiculous the way some of you hate on a guy that is having the best season of his HoF 3 time MVP career at age 40.

 

[Bear Pand]

I don't understand how Rodgers isn't in the talks. I guess I'm looking for a legitimate reason. 33 total touchdowns, leads rushing for qbs as well. Plays behind the most inconsistent line in football yet still threads. Packers are one play away from being 11-4 and are 6-1 in the last 7 games I believe?

Mainly because the Packers aren't good enough. He isn't in the race for the same reason CJ really isn't.

Finishing 2nd in your division really isn't gonna cut it unless you're considered elite at your position.

Favre was an AP fumble away from the biggest comeback of his career but still lost

So we can safely assume that had Peterson not fumbled the Vikings would've won?

It's amazing how you overstate Favre's accomplishments, while understating other QBs like Manning and Rivers. Rivers had an ok day? Did you watch the Titans-SD game?

I love how Rivers going 21-27 264 2 TDs 0 Turnovers against an average Titans team is just

Rivers had an ok day

While Favre going 26-40 321 2 TDs 1 turnover against a shitty Bears team is

Favre was an AP fumble away from the biggest comeback of his career but still lost

 

[Goober]

Mr Bill, the "Favre would have made the biggest comeback of his career argument, if AP wouldn't have fumbled" is extremely fucking lame.

The Vikings got the ball two times in overtime. On the first drive, they went three and out, Favre attempted to pass all three times, he threw an incomplete pass and was sacked twice. That's really fucking clutch. lol. He was outperformed by Jay "king of redzone turnovers" Cutler. lol.

 

[FirstTimer]

Looking at AP's stats and fumble issues this year vs. last year, I think it is safe to say that Favre IS the Vikings team this season.

Comparing this years Viking's offensive talent to the mid 90's Packers offensive talent around Favre=fail.

Since you brought up Favre's throwing long more in his MVP years, I thought it would be nice to point out that his average yards per reception (good indicator of long passes) is also the highest of his career. Guess you have missed out on some of those bombs to Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin.

There's a difference between throwing long and throwing to guys like Berrian and Harvin who rack up YAC like no one's business. Favre does not throw deep anywhere near as much as he did in Green Bay in his earlier years.

1995 4413yds 38td 15int 63% 7.7 AVG QB Rating 99.5
1996 3899yds 39td 13int 59.9% 7.5 AVG QB Rating 95.8
1997 3867yds 35td 16int 59.3% 7.2 AVG QB Rating 92.6
AVG 4045yds 37td 15int 60.7% 7.4 AVG QB Rating 95.9
2009 4145yds 31td 7int 67.6% 7.8 AVG QB Rating 104.3

Because those aren't his actual stats? You are using ESPN.com projection numbers. Plus Favre's roll in the offense now is much less important than it was in GB in the mid 1990's.

guy that is having the best season of his HoF 3 time MVP career at age 40.

He's not though.

 

[MrBill]

Comparing this years Viking's offensive talent to the mid 90's Packers offensive talent around Favre=fail.

Not so sure that I would consider it a fail when you look at the individual positions.

Wide Receivers - Sydney Rice, Percy Harvin and Bernard Barrian>>>Antonio Freeman, Robert Brooks and Bill Schroeder

Running Backs - Adrian Peterson and Chester Taylor>>>Edgar Bennett and Dorsey Levens

Tight End - The combination of Mark Chumura and Keith Jackson in the 2 TE set for the Packers was bigger than Shiancoe and Kleinsausser. That said, I'd take Shiancoe over Chumura for athletic ability. Keith Jackson was only with the Packers for a little less than half of Favre's MVP run in the 90's so that lessens his spot on the list.

Offensive Line - Packers '95-97 OL>>>>Vikings current OL

Where the big difference between the current Vikings squad and the Packers squads of the mid-90's comes into play is defense and special teams. The Fritz Shurmer defense and Nolan Cromwell special teams were light years ahead of the current Vikings team. Partly due to injuries and partly due to ineffective coaching and utilization of personnel.

There's a difference between throwing long and throwing to guys like Berrian and Harvin who rack up YAC like no one's business. Favre does not throw deep anywhere near as much as he did in Green Bay in his earlier years.

Antonio Freeman was all about the YAC back in the day. Brooks would catch the occasional deep bomb but the WCO was built to throw quick slants and screens. Maybe Favre tossed it 80 yards in the air because he could back in the mid-90's but here are the number of 20+ & 40+ yard passing plays he had in the MVP years along with this year.

20+ 40+
1995 59 5
1996 49 11
1997 61 9
2009 48 11

He had 16 40+ yard plays in '07 with the Packers and there were a LOT of deep balls to Donald Driver and Greg Jennings mixed in with those killer WCO slant plays. The YAC argument just doesn't hold water as being the reason for the deep ball stats listed above.

Because those aren't his actual stats? You are using ESPN.com projection numbers. Plus Favre's roll in the offense now is much less important than it was in GB in the mid 1990's.

I'm using MrBill projection numbers based on an average of his first 15 games. I think that is reasonable, it's not like he had a huge first game and then I projected 50 TD and 5,000 yards. Barring something odd, Favre will end in the neighborhood of that projection, which is better in every category than his MVP average outside of TD's.

He's not though.

Football is a statistically driven sport. Over the course of a season, the stats do no lie, therefore he is having one of the best seasons of his career.

***Not an endorsement of Favre over Manning for the 2009 MVP award****

 

[FirstTimer]

Football is a statistically driven sport. Over the course of a season, the stats do no lie, therefore he is having one of the best seasons of his career.

***Not an endorsement of Favre over Manning for the 2009 MVP award****

Maqke up your damn mind. Is he having THE best of one of the best? I never said it wasn't "one of his best" I simply said it wasn't THE best of his career. This change in language changes the entire argument.

In the end though...

MVP seasons>>>>Non MVP seasons.

 

[MrBill]

Maqke up your damn mind. Is he having THE best of one of the best? I never said it wasn't "one of his best" I simply said it wasn't THE best of his career. This change in language changes the entire argument.

In the end though...

MVP seasons>>>>Non MVP seasons.

Statistically, it is the best season of his career on several key stats and exceeds his average production of his MVP years. I think you can make a strong case that it is the best year of his career, even more so when you take into consideration the man is over 40 years old. Doesn't mean that he is going to beat out Manning for MVP anymore than he did Brady back in '07 when the Pats went 16-0.

He outperformed the projection that I made for this week so the updated numbers are noted below. I counted 4 passes for longer than 40 yards today that doesn't include a 45 yard TD bomb to Harvin that was called back due to penalties.

1995 4413yds 38td 15int 63% 7.7 AVG QB Rating 99.5
1996 3899yds 39td 13int 59.9% 7.5 AVG QB Rating 95.8
1997 3867yds 35td 16int 59.3% 7.2 AVG QB Rating 92.6

MVP AVG 4045yds 37td 15int 60.7% 7.4 AVG QB Rating 95.9

2009 4145yds 31td 7int 67.6% 7.8 AVG QB Rating 104.3 <---My projection
2009 4202yds 32td 7int 68.3% 7.9 AVG QB Rating 106.6 <---Final numbers

 

[Bear Pand]

Up 34-0 with a 4th and 1 on the 1 yard line? Go for it Bret!

lol running score upaments.