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Enough is enough. Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time.

Truth is, even during the regular season Bart Starr was better than "above average" and was statistically one of the best QBs in football year after year. He was the highest rated passer 3 times and finished with a career rating of 80.5 at a time when the league rating was usually in the mid 60s.

Starr was ahead of his time. Best QB of that time was usually between he and Unitas. He was one of the first QB's to exhaustively study film and he was very accurate. One of the ONLY QB's of his time to have a completion % of 60 for a regular season. But his playoff performances were EXCEPTIONAL. Far greater than his regular season play. Playoffs, you are playing the best teams, against the best defenses, and the most high pressure games. That's when Starr shined the most.

As far as HOF goes, we just see things differently. Post season play just means so much more to me than regular season stats.

EDIT: I always LOVE your posts dell.
 
Starr was ahead of his time. Best QB of that time was usually between he and Unitas. He was one of the first QB's to exhaustively study film and he was very accurate. One of the ONLY QB's of his time to have a completion % of 60 for a regular season. But his playoff performances were EXCEPTIONAL. Far greater than his regular season play. Playoffs, you are playing the best teams, against the best defenses, and the most high pressure games. That's when Starr shined the most.

As far as HOF goes, we just see things differently. Post season play just means so much more to me than regular season stats.

EDIT: I always LOVE your posts dell.
Thanks for the last part...

As for Starr, it's true his post-season play was unbelievable. My contention is not that it doesn't count for much, but that even without those games he'd be a great QB.
 
Truth is, even during the regular season Bart Starr was better than "above average" and was statistically one of the best QBs in football year after year. He was the highest rated passer 3 times and finished with a career rating of 80.5 at a time when the league rating was usually in the mid 60s. He's another guy who threw more TDs than picks for his career when the league as a whole threw far more interceptions than TDs. His career totals in yards and TDs just aren't eye-popping because Vince Lombardi was his coach. Let's not pretend he was just some OK guy who suddenly turned into a beast during the post-season. He was great all the time. I'd argue that without the titles, he's still a HoF worthy player. Only a handfull Of players of his era or earlier have the raw stats to compare to his, without the adjustments of advanced passing: Otto Graham (criminally overlooked in this thread), Sonny Jurgensen, and Len Dawson. And this is regular season ONLY. However, we can't separate the man from the titles. The fact he was so great in winning 5 of them is what gets him into the conversation for being called the GOAT. He won them because he was great, not the other way around.

The opposite is true of Eli. Eli is not a great QB, he has just made a couple of great runs. To make the HoF, I think you should be truly great. Like Warner (I think), I put more emphasis on the regular season because that's the overwhelming majority of any player's career. What he does during the playoffs I do weigh more than the average game, because the situation is the most pressure-cooked atmosphere they'll ever be in. It's all on the line. That said, I can't say let's put an average guy into the Hall because he was great twice in the playoffs.

As all of this relates to Peyton and who is the GOAT. I'll definitely listen to the argument that Starr is that guy. I'd do the same for Montana, Graham, Unitas, Brady, Tarkenton and Peyton. For me, there is a clear line of demarcation between this group and whoever is in the next tier. Playoff performance does figure into this. Having no titles is a knock on a guy (as a QB, I don't do this for any other position in football). Hence, I would put Tarkenton at the bottom of that list and I don't include Marino at all, another regular season king. I've seen Montana, Brady, and Peyton with my own eyes and I'd take Manning over the three of them (and I grew up a Montana guy). Manning truly changed the position. Not many players in the history of any sport can say that. Still, I probably lean toward Graham and Unitas. They also changed the sport and were both just playing a different game than their contemporaries.

BOOM.

Eli is an average player who won two Super Bowls. Eli is proof you don't have to be a great QB to make a great run in the postseason. HE WON RINGZ HE MUST BE GREAT is the lowest level shit around. It makes smart men sound like complete morons.

I start my analysis with the regular season. If you're a regular season bum (Dilfer) or barely average (Eli, Plunkett, Flacco) I don't care what you do in the postseason in terms of Hall of Fame analysis. Eli could win a third SB, but unless his career arch dramatically changes along with it (wins an MVP, breaks some records, puts up some amazing stats, something, anything the true greats of his era are doing), it means nothing to me in the context of this discussion. Three Super Bowls, cool, great accomplishment. But not a great player. Not a hall of famer. Insulting to include him with truly great players.
 
I just Love that Eli gets all this attention....LOVE IT!!

1412.gif
 
BOOM.

Eli is an average player who won two Super Bowls. Eli is proof you don't have to be a great QB to make a great run in the postseason. HE WON RINGZ HE MUST BE GREAT is the lowest level shit around. It makes smart men sound like complete morons.

Not disagreeing with this.

I start my analysis with the regular season. If you're a regular season bum (Dilfer) or barely average (Eli, Plunkett, Flacco) I don't care what you do in the postseason in terms of Hall of Fame analysis. Eli could win a third SB, but unless his career arch dramatically changes along with it (wins an MVP, breaks some records, puts up some amazing stats, something, anything the true greats of his era are doing), it means nothing to me in the context of this discussion. Three Super Bowls, cool, great accomplishment. But not a great player. Not a hall of famer. Insulting to include him with truly great players.

For GOAT, I start my analysis with the post season. If they don't perform well and choke in the post season, then I don't really care what they do in the regular season. A player doesn't have to win in the post season, but they have to perform very well for me to consider them the GOAT. If you choke often in the post season, like Brett did, then I can't consider them the GOAT.

I think we are talking about 2 different things. I'm talking GOAT, you seem to be talking HOF. You guys keep discussing HOF. I was addressing the thread title of Peyton GOAT. I'm not sure we are disagreeing.
 
hardly a great number of guys even make it to 12 playoff games. He has won a SB and been to another and has an incredible over all win-loss record.

suppose they lose this game...odds are it will be the Denver Defense's more than his fault anyway probably.
 
hardly a great number of guys even make it to 12 playoff games. He has won a SB and been to another and has an incredible over all win-loss record.

suppose they lose this game...odds are it will be the Denver Defense's more than his fault anyway probably.

You can picture it, because it's always this way. Manning throws 5 touchdowns and 1 interception, but takes the brunt of a loss because Rivers throws 5/0.
 
So we're locking this baby after Peyton holds up the Lombardi in three weeks, right?

He'll not only be the most accomplished regular season QB of all time (no questions asked), but he'll have had the best single season of all time (no questions asked), he'll be on his way to breaking every all time record, and he'll have that precious second RING that you derps value over everything else.

You can all concede defeat by thanking this particular post in three weeks. See you then.
 
So we're locking this baby after Peyton holds up the Lombardi in three weeks, right?

He'll not only be the most accomplished regular season QB of all time (no questions asked), but he'll have had the best single season of all time (no questions asked), he'll be on his way to breaking every all time record, and he'll have that precious second RING that you derps value over everything else.

You can all concede defeat by thanking this particular post in three weeks. See you then.

But if Tom Brady wins whos posts do we thank then ?
If Montana throws a TD pass over Deion Sanders to Jerry Rice in the probowl do I get thanked posts ?

Food for thought.
 
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