EPL Discussion

[calgaryballer]

If Roman is consistently ruthless Rafa should be sacked by the morning. Threatening champions league to add a trophy to your resume? Worse than any manager before him's done.

Chelsea fans need to stop being such salty bitches. This is the team sheet he put out:

Cech
Azplicutea - Ivanovic - Terry - Bertrand
Lampard - Mikel
Marin - Oscar - Moses
Torres

If that's a lineup that can't get a result at Southampton, there really isn't much to be said

 

[kyhadley]

Chelsea fans need to stop being such salty bitches. This is the team sheet he put out:

Cech
Azplicutea - Ivanovic - Terry - Bertrand
Lampard - Mikel
Marin - Oscar - Moses
Torres

If that's a lineup that can't get a result at Southampton, there really isn't much to be said

It's a lineup with 6 changes from our best team, and one without Mata or Hazard which is the most significant part. We just aren't the same team without one or both of them. Today's match is more important than Monday's, therefore Hazard needed to start. But Rafa cares more about getting a trophy, so he rested him for Monday.

I mean the performance today pretty clearly proved that the team put out there against Southampton--a relegation-threatened team that came back from two goals against us at home two months ago-- wasn't good enough to get a result.

Let me rephrase my sacking Rafa point: if Roman held all his managers to the same standard, Rafa would be sacked by the morning. AKA this is worse than any other manager has done that got themselves fired by Roman. Just pointing it out, not being a "salty bitch".

 

[1ke]

Seemed like a strong team, minus Cole Mata and Hazard.

 

[Bigpapa42]

That's hardly a weak lineup. its not like Rafa ran out the Chelsea reserve side. That has several regulars and is full of internationals, so its hardly questionable to expect that to beat a relegation side. Arsenal were also without several key players and pulled the result that should be expected. Chelsea underperformed and you cannot pin all the blame on the manager for that.

And a lot of managers in Rafa's situation would do what he's doing, I think, at least to some degree. Winning a European trophy is a notable accomplishment, even when its not the Champions League. Qualifying for the CL is an accomplishment but its an abstract one. One that helps the club in the long run. Benitez has been put in a situation where the long-term is not his concern. As a fan, that trophy might not appeal to you much, KB, but you cannot say its worthless and brings the club no esteem at all.

Rafa has been put into a tough, fucked up situation. Blame the owner.

 

[f16harm]

Arsenal creepin on the come up. Just like last year. I have complete faith in Spurs that they will choke. Chelsea may as well.


P.S. Why is there no profile icon for Arsenal??

 

[1ke]

Hey.....look at the good news Chavs fans. At least Roman hasn't gone all Palermo on you. For those not following the Italian side Palermo. Their owner has gone through 5 managers this season alone.

10 managers since 2011.

Not only that, but he hired Sannino, then replaced him with Gasperini. Fired Gasperini for some other guy and replaced him with Gasperini who was just fired. Then Gasperini was fired again, just to be hired by....wait for it....Sannino. Palermo are relegation bound as well, theres a shock.

 

[mgoblue2290]

It's a lineup with 6 changes from our best team, and one without Mata or Hazard which is the most significant part. We just aren't the same team without one or both of them. Today's match is more important than Monday's, therefore Hazard needed to start. But Rafa cares more about getting a trophy, so he rested him for Monday.

I mean the performance today pretty clearly proved that the team put out there against Southampton--a relegation-threatened team that came back from two goals against us at home two months ago-- wasn't good enough to get a result.

Let me rephrase my sacking Rafa point: if Roman held all his managers to the same standard, Rafa would be sacked by the morning. AKA this is worse than any other manager has done that got themselves fired by Roman. Just pointing it out, not being a "salty bitch".

You might be the most annoying poster in the soccer section. Holy shit.

 

[Fappin Raptor]

You might be the most annoying poster in the soccer section. Holy shit.

Second****

Your buddy CJ is and always will be number 1.

 

[kyhadley]

I don't get what I'm saying that is so unreasonable. Please be specific.

All I'm saying is that Rafa and Chelsea supporters clearly have different priorities for the remaining competitions, which is very frustrating. And that managers have done less under Abramovich to get themselves sacked.

 

[Anthony]

I don't get what I'm saying that is so unreasonable. Please be specific.

All I'm saying is that Rafa and Chelsea supporters clearly have different priorities for the remaining competitions, which is very frustrating. And that managers have done less under Abramovich to get themselves sacked.

I second what Brian McDermott said on Goals on Sunday this morning.

Chelsea supporters who are claiming that Rafa is putting his priorities elsewhere need to come to grips with the fact that the side Rafa put out against Southampton was more than enough to get the job done. There is a reason you have a squad. Not 11 players, a squad. You're playing on several fronts, you HAVE to rotate the side at some point. Rafa rotated the squad and brought in full international players, it's not like he threw in players from the reserves and U21 side.

 

[mgoblue2290]

You acting like its Rafa's fault some exceptionally talented players couldn't beat Southampton and refusing to blame them for your team's shortcomings.

 

[kyhadley]

You're playing on several fronts, you HAVE to rotate the side at some point. Rafa rotated the squad and brought in full international players, it's not like he threw in players from the reserves and U21 side.

Correct! He chose to rotate the squad yesterday. I and most other Chelsea supporters would have preferred he rotate it on Monday and Thursday. I never once have said that the squad he put out wasn't of high quality with players capable of beating Southampton. It's undeniable though that it was not near the quality of our best eleven which is what I would have wanted to see yesterday.

It's also a bit confusing to me how you can defend the tactics and selection after the performance from Chelsea was so abject? I mean we had two shots on target, scored off a corner, and dropped three incredibly crucial points.

Always the victim, it's never his fault.

 

[Anthony]

Correct! He chose to rotate the squad yesterday. I and most other Chelsea supporters would have preferred he rotate it on Monday and Thursday. I never once have said that the squad he put out wasn't of high quality with players capable of beating Southampton. It's undeniable though that it was not near the quality of our best eleven which is what I would have wanted to see yesterday.

He rotated the squad against a club that was a mere 4 points from the relegation places. Instead, you'd have him rotate the side during an FA Cup match against United and in a Europa League match. WTF? Clubs exist to win trophies, as Liverpool fans are so proud of saying.

It's also a bit confusing to me how you can defend the tactics and selection after the performance from Chelsea was so abject? I mean we had two shots on target, scored off a corner, and dropped three incredibly crucial points.

Always the victim, it's never his fault.

I never said "Oh look he got his tactics spot on". The only thing I said (and EVERYONE else except clueless Chelski fans), is that the side he put out was more than capable of defeating Southampton. You entire argument was based on the perception that Rafa played a weak side, something that clearly isn't true.

Johnny Come Lately fans of these spend big clubs like City and Chelsea do my head in. They act so entitled, and their woe is me attitude comes off more than a bit hollow to supporters of clubs who have actually seen struggles.

 

[Bigpapa42]

The manager always deserves some of the blame when the team underperforms. Some. When Arsenal shit the bed in a match - which happens with wonderful frequency anymore - I am always going to direct some degree of ire toward Wenger. How much depends on the situation. This was a slightly-weakened side that still had tons of quality and they were lined up in a reasonable manner. Looking at it, no one was played massively out of position or asked to do something they are completely unsuited for. So then a large degree of the blame, in my opinion, goes to the 11 players on the pitch.

I think why we jumped at you on this is because you were presenting opinion rather as fact. That it was utterly ridiculous and unfathomable that Rafa might be giving some degree of priority to the European competition. Which as you later admitted, is a matter of perspective. Its quite reasonable for Rafa to do some squad rotation in preparation for that match. Especially when you consider that managers are judged primarily on one thing - trophies they have won. While the supporters might prefer top four in the league, that won't truly be seen as an accomplishment from the manager perspective. And the fact that we all know Rafa won't be there next season simply makes it more reasonable for him to prioritize the possible trophies. As I said, a lot of managers in that situation would do similar. Its the same reasoning that managers under pressure for results will often play more experienced players instead of "promising" youngsters, even though the latter might be better for the club in the long run.

Rather than Chelsea supporters pinning all of the blame on Rafa - which seems to be something I've seen quite a number of Chelskis do - why not be realistic? Give the players at least some of the blame for underperforming and a fair amount of blame to your owner for making what has turned out to be a terrible decision regarding the manager.

 

[calgaryballer]

Would Chelsea fans prefer FA Cup and Europa League trophies in their cabinet? Or a 4th place finish?

The answer will illuminate a lot of what's wrong with modern soccer.

Arsene can't win. Arsenal fans want him to win a trophy as it's been 'x' many years since they last did so. However, according to Chelsea logic, he's been doing a-ok just because he continually gets them to the quarters/last-16 of the Champions League and a top four place

As an NUFC fan, if we somehow won the Europa League but finished 17th, I'd be ecstatic.

 

[kyhadley]

So really it just comes down to the fact that I and most other Chelsea fans would rather finish top 4 than win the FA cup or Europa league. Yes clubs exist to win trophies, but some trophies are far more prestigious than others. And I would place the Champions league and Premier league on the top of that list with the other cups some ways below them. Winning the FA cup last year was nice, but it was nothing compared to the Champions league.

So yes I would rather not win the FA cup or Europa league now, if it means I have a change to win the Champions league later.

Rafa played a weak side relative to his best team, that is something that is clearly true. Y'all keep dancing around me saying that.

Oh the entitlement argument again nice. I'm sorry that I believe my club is performing worse than they are capable of. There is no woe is me attitude, that is a tone that you are applying. It has nothing to do with the past.

 

[WrightStuff]

Happy with the Liverpool 3 points today. Hoping I can catch the highlights later on

 

[kyhadley]

I think why we jumped at you on this is because you were presenting opinion rather as fact. That it was utterly ridiculous and unfathomable that Rafa might be giving some degree of priority to the European competition. Which as you later admitted, is a matter of perspective. Its quite reasonable for Rafa to do some squad rotation in preparation for that match. Especially when you consider that managers are judged primarily on one thing - trophies they have won. While the supporters might prefer top four in the league, that won't truly be seen as an accomplishment from the manager perspective. And the fact that we all know Rafa won't be there next season simply makes it more reasonable for him to prioritize the possible trophies. As I said, a lot of managers in that situation would do similar. Its the same reasoning that managers under pressure for results will often play more experienced players instead of "promising" youngsters, even though the latter might be better for the club in the long run.

Rather than Chelsea supporters pinning all of the blame on Rafa - which seems to be something I've seen quite a number of Chelskis do - why not be realistic? Give the players at least some of the blame for underperforming and a fair amount of blame to your owner for making what has turned out to be a terrible decision regarding the manager.

Of course I understand the reasoning why Rafa rotated yesterday to try to save it for the cups... that is exactly why it is a problem. He is not serving the best interests of the club, but himself. And of course it is Roman's and Emenalo's and Buck's fault for bringing Rafa in in what you accept as a terrible decision.

But those guys aren't going anywhere. And they have done plenty of good for the club as well. Rafa hasn't.

 

[mgoblue2290]

So really it just comes down to the fact that I and most other Chelsea fans would rather finish top 4 than win the FA cup or Europa league. Yes clubs exist to win trophies, but some trophies are far more prestigious than others. And I would place the Champions league and Premier league on the top of that list with the other cups some ways below them. Winning the FA cup last year was nice, but it was nothing compared to the Champions league.

So yes I would rather not win the FA cup or Europa league now, if it means I have a change to win the Champions league later.

Rafa played a weak side relative to his best team, that is something that is clearly true. Y'all keep dancing around me saying that.

Oh the entitlement argument again nice. I'm sorry that I believe my club is performing worse than they are capable of. There is no woe is me attitude, that is a tone that you are applying. It has nothing to do with the past.

You definitely have a woe is me attitude. Your club won the Champions League and FA Cup last season and is reasonably positioned to win 2 major trophies again. And you're sitting here acting as if the wheels are coming off and you're about to finish outside the top 10 or something.

The team out there yesterday should've handled Southampton with relative ease. It isn't on Rafa that they couldn't do it. Like others have said, you have a squad of players who rotate. Rafa not placing priority on a team barely above relegation with United on Monday was absolutely the right call. You guys are probably going to finish top 4 anyways and all your bitching will be for nothing.

 

[Bigpapa42]

So really it just comes down to the fact that I and most other Chelsea fans would rather finish top 4 than win the FA cup or Europa league. Yes clubs exist to win trophies, but some trophies are far more prestigious than others. And I would place the Champions league and Premier league on the top of that list with the other cups some ways below them. Winning the FA cup last year was nice, but it was nothing compared to the Champions league.

So yes I would rather not win the FA cup or Europa league now, if it means I have a change to win the Champions league later.

CB's question is perfectly valid then - given that you feel this way, is Arsenal achieving this over the past 7 seasons then an accomplishment? Because if you say yes, and have either ever made fun of Arsenal for that, or ever do in the future, you are total hypocrite.

Rafa fielded a weaker side, relatively speaking. But you are still refusing to answer the follow-up to that, which is that the side that was fielded was of sufficient quality to expect a victory over the opponent at hand. Or are you going to claim that the side full of internationals and worth hundreds of millions cannot reasonably be expected to be a relegation-threatened side that had 6 wins all season?