FG kicking is too easy in the NFL, time for changes

[ram29jackson]

Tom Dempsey rule
Dempsey set an NFL record when he booted a 63-yard field goal in 1970. And booted is the proper adjective -- Dempsey was born without toes and his shoe was flattened into a golf club, which gave him an unfair advantage. Though, you might say Sebastian Janikowski is getting an unfair advantage from the chili cheese fries he eats, giving him added girth. But he's still not swinging a club.

Bronko Nagurski rule
Quarterbacks were only allowed to throw a forward pass from five yards behind the line of scrimmage in 1932. The Portsmouth Spartans (eventual Detroit Lions) coach that year complained Nagurski wasn't far enough back from the line of scrimmage as he threw passes during the 1932 NFL Championship Game. The refs allowed Nagurski's touchdown to Red Grange stand as the Bears went on to win. The following year, the league changed the rule to allow all passes from behind the line of scrimmage.

 

[ram29jackson]

dumb rule change that needs to be altered again

Ken Stabler rule
The famed "Holy Roller" spawned this rule. With the Raiders trailing in the final seconds at San Diego in 1978, Stabler was scrambling in the pocket and instead of taking the sack on fourth down he "accidentally" fumbled forward. The ball was subsequently kicked by Pete Banaszak, and then kicked again by Dave Casper, who recovered the ball in the end zone for the win. Just watch the play.

Does that noise seem like it should be legal? Well, the league thought not.

The Stabler rule prohibits an offensive player other than the player who fumbled the ball from recovering or advancing a fumble on fourth down or on any down in the final two minutes of a half. And if another player recovers, the ball reverts to the original spot of the fumble.

Oh, and Stabler admitted he fumbled it on purpose. Of course he did. Seriously, watch the play. Who doesn't think that was on purpose? Other than the referee Jerry Markbreit.

 

[kmanharris]

lol @ that being a dumb rule.

 

[ram29jackson]

lol @ that being a dumb rule.

yes, its control freakishness gone wild. it assumes all fourth down fumbles are on purpose and must be punished

 

[kmanharris]

yes, its control freakishness gone wild. it assumes all fourth down fumbles are on purpose and must be punished

No. It stops teams from doing exactly what occurred before the rule was in place.

 

[ram29jackson]

No. It stops teams from doing exactly what occurred before the rule was in place.

no, it takes away the spontaneity of an actual fumble and awards the other team based on a bias assumption

 

[Hasselbeck]

No the positions have not evolved. Not a single player today is in anyway more skilled then someone from 10-15 years ago. There may be some exceptions with kickers but from top to bottom including kickers the rule changes and field conditions have dramatically changed the way the game is played. There has been no evolution at any skill position.

:ukiddingme:

Every skill player in the game is bigger, faster, stronger (without trying to sound like a Daft Punk beat) than they were 15-20 years ago. There were no Calvin Johnson/Jimmy Graham type players in the 80's ..

There is also precedence for the NFL modifying kicking rules to make kicks somewhat more challenging. The inclusion of the "K" ball was brought in to try and make it a little more difficult to work the ball in such a manner where it was easier to kick. Obviously the new age of kicking/special teams coaching has figured out that detail already because kickers are a lot more automatic now than they were in years past. Seahawks K Steven Hauschka, for example, has only missed 4 kicks in his last 2 seasons.. 2 of them were blocked, the other was from 51 at Candlestick and 61 at Ford Field (of which it hit the crossbar).

Don't think anything is happening within 2 years, but 5-10 years from now when there is a kicker booming kicks from 70? I'm sure.

 

[ram29jackson]

Every skill player in the game is bigger, faster, stronger (without trying to sound like a Daft Punk beat) than they were 15-20 years ago. There were no Calvin Johnson/Jimmy Graham type players in the 80's ..

bigger= some not much...stronger/faster = no..40 times haven't changed.. players at skill positions have been around 6 ft tall and 200 pounds for 40 years.

Calvin Johnson/Jimmy Graham type players in the 80's

pure baloney.

 

[Hasselbeck]

bigger= some not much...stronger/faster = no..40 times haven't changed.. players at skill positions have been around 6 ft tall and 200 pounds for 40 years.




pure baloney.

Name some.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

:ukiddingme:

Every skill player in the game is bigger, faster, stronger (without trying to sound like a Daft Punk beat) than they were 15-20 years ago. There were no Calvin Johnson/Jimmy Graham type players in the 80's ..

lulz. A handful of tight ends who dont get jammed at the line and cant block for shit being slightly taller than the ones in previous years means everyone in the game is bigger stronger faster.
John Ogden , Larry Allen ,and Deion Sanders are giggling at this post. Randy Moss > Calvin Johnson so yeah theirs that also.

Blocking is average at best.... Tackling and Coverage skills are all terrible in todays game. Route running is sloppy as shit as half of NFL plays should be categorized as "broken" plays as QBs just sit in the pocket as 4-5 targets run crossing routes and deep ins until someone comes free. The FB position is non existent , TE are just large slot WRs .DE/OLB skills have declined as they no longer have to worry about the run and just speed rush to the outside.
The average WR/CB/RB/QB/T/Pass Rusher is no different than 15 years ago thinking otherwise is silly and purposely ignoring the dramatic effect rule changes has had.

The only thing that has improved is QBs handling of the LOS . The Manning effect has more QBs calling out blocking assignments and adjusting plays than before.

 

[Tailback U]

The athletes today are as good as they have ever been. Your opinion of why the NFL sucks today can be attributed to the rules or college football or whatever you want to blame it on, but if you actually think that the players we've been watching over the last couple of decades are physically inferior and less talented than 20+ years ago then you are taking crazy pills. And I'm not really talking about individuals or comparing the elite of today to the elite of 20+ years ago, I think there is more depth top to bottom today than in the past.

Lastly, I feel like it is a lot harder to kick a 60 yard game winning FG then to complete a 4th and 2 nowadays.

I can only imagine the fuss people will make if they were to narrow the FG posts, making more teams go for 4th downs and convert them because of the rule changes and penalties, only to bitch about how they never should have changed the field goal posts.

I also love this idea that when there is parity in the league then the NFL is "down" and the competition sucks. It's like if there aren't a couple of elite teams dominating then the whole league must just suck ass.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

The athletes today are as good as they have ever been. Your opinion of why the NFL sucks today can be attributed to the rules or college football or whatever you want to blame it on, but if you actually think that the players we've been watching over the last couple of decades are physically inferior and less talented than 20+ years ago then you are taking crazy pills.

Who said "inferior" ? Since when does not better = inferior ?
Its a lateral move . Athletes are the same as they were 15-20 years ago. The conditions around them have changed giving the appearance of vast improvement when there isnt.

And I'm not really talking about individuals or comparing the elite of today to the elite of 20+ years ago, I think there is more depth top to bottom today than in the past.

Wrong again. NFL salary cap has forced out many veteran players and give teams a top heavy roster. There is less time to develop skills and less money to keep experienced veterans who demand more money. Overall quality of player past the top tier is down and has been since FA began. Its the nature of the CAP.

If you were in an NFL locker room like Maynard youd know all this stuff.

I can only imagine the fuss people will make if they were to narrow the FG posts, making more teams go for 4th downs and convert them because of the rule changes and penalties, only to bitch about how they never should have changed the field goal posts.

Ill agree to that.

I also love this idea that when there is parity in the league then the NFL is "down" and the competition sucks. It's like if there aren't a couple of elite teams dominating then the whole league must just suck ass

Theres always been the elite tier. The issue is the rule changes have assured parity is covering up for the watering down of scoring. Sept doesnt mean squat and neither does the first half of a football game anymore. Thats a problem being masked by OMGZ SHOOTOUT ! OMGZ MEGA COMEBACK! headlines. Its being spoken about pretty regularly by former players turned analysts so at least its a known issue. Denying it is silly.
Parity is one thing but within a game there is none. Its all offense , in specific all passing. Theres what 3 legit defenses every year ? and even they are all vulnerable to getting man handled and giving up 40+ in game (SF v NO last year rings a bell)

Athletically players are the same. Minor changes in positional makeup because of personnel needs nothing more. Skill sets are inferior period.
Game being boring or sucky is purely opinion I side on the sucky part.

 

[Tailback U]

Who said "inferior" ? Since when does not better = inferior ?
Its a lateral move . Athletes are the same as they were 15-20 years ago. The conditions around them have changed giving the appearance of vast improvement when there isnt.

I don't think anyone is saying the players today are all that much more physically superior than just 15-20 years ago. I think 20-30 years ago, there were less overall freaks than today.

Compare the players today to 30-40 years ago, even more so. I'm not sure anybody is denying that, though, so we could be saying the same thing.

Wrong again. NFL salary cap has forced out many veteran players and give teams a top heavy roster. There is less time to develop skills and less money to keep experienced veterans who demand more money. Overall quality of player past the top tier is down and has been since FA began. Its the nature of the CAP.

This is a good point and while I think you could be right I also think there are more rookies that come in ready to play than in the past. The amount of rookies starting around the league and playing at a high level is impressive.

Not something I can tangibly compare to past years because I don't have that info but watching guys like Eric Reid (FS), Kiko Alonso (MLB), Matthieu (S), Eddie Lacy (RB), Keenan Allen (WR), Kyle Long (G), etc. shows you that rookies can come in and start right away at any position today. I listed mostly skilled positions, there are a few guys starting on the OL and DL as rookies this season as well that are playing very well that I didn't mention.

I think the drafts are a little deeper today than in the past, which is why I assume teams may be deeper. I'm just seeing a lot of rookies playing all over the league at various positions and playing well.

Theres always been the elite tier. The issue is the rule changes have assured parity is covering up for the watering down of scoring. Sept doesnt mean squat and neither does the first half of a football game anymore. Thats a problem being masked by OMGZ SHOOTOUT ! OMGZ MEGA COMEBACK! headlines. Its being spoken about pretty regularly by former players turned analysts so at least its a known issue. Denying it is silly.

Parity is one thing but within a game there is none. Its all offense , in specific all passing. Theres what 3 legit defenses every year ? and even they are all vulnerable to getting man handled and giving up 40+ in game (SF v NO last year rings a bell)

Athletically players are the same. Minor changes in positional makeup because of personnel needs nothing more. Skill sets are inferior period.

Game being boring or sucky is purely opinion I side on the sucky part.

I think people are being overly dramatic. Fans like to bitch about something. Especially "old" fans who have been watching football for 20+ years (I'm right around the 20 year mark).

The rule changes, penalties, and absurd amount of commercial breaks are hurting the NFL more than anything. The competition, coaching, and the players are as good as they've ever been. It's all the other crap that's hurting the sport.

Bottom line, more changes worsen the game, in my opinion. I'm tired of it.

 

[dave]

bigger= some not much...stronger/faster = no..40 times haven't changed.. players at skill positions have been around 6 ft tall and 200 pounds for 40 years.

This may be the dumbest thing I've ever read here.

I am not a rams29jackson hater or anything, but for you to say today's athletes are not much different than athletes from 40 years ago is insane and borderline retarded.

 

[ram29jackson]

Who said "inferior" ? Since when does not better = inferior ?
Its a lateral move . Athletes are the same as they were 15-20 years ago. The conditions around them have changed giving the appearance of vast improvement when there isnt.


Wrong again. NFL salary cap has forced out many veteran players and give teams a top heavy roster. There is less time to develop skills and less money to keep experienced veterans who demand more money. Overall quality of player past the top tier is down and has been since FA began. Its the nature of the CAP.

If you were in an NFL locker room like Maynard youd know all this stuff.





Ill agree to that.



Theres always been the elite tier. The issue is the rule changes have assured parity is covering up for the watering down of scoring. Sept doesnt mean squat and neither does the first half of a football game anymore. Thats a problem being masked by OMGZ SHOOTOUT ! OMGZ MEGA COMEBACK! headlines. Its being spoken about pretty regularly by former players turned analysts so at least its a known issue. Denying it is silly.
Parity is one thing but within a game there is none. Its all offense , in specific all passing. Theres what 3 legit defenses every year ? and even they are all vulnerable to getting man handled and giving up 40+ in game (SF v NO last year rings a bell)

Athletically players are the same. Minor changes in positional makeup because of personnel needs nothing more. Skill sets are inferior period.
Game being boring or sucky is purely opinion I side on the sucky part.

 

[ram29jackson]

This may be the dumbest thing I've ever read here.

I am not a rams29jackson hater or anything, but for you to say today's athletes are not much different than athletes from 40 years ago is insane and borderline retarded.

I just gave you facts as to why. skill position players are the same size, they trained year round in the 80s too...theres not some drastic difference in the jock the last 40 years aside from the fact most are actually dumber than they use to be and that's saying a lot because most jocks have always been dumb..they cant jump any higher on average and they don't run any faster... they aren't better or greater on average than they've ever been....outfield walls aren't getting deeper in baseball and pitchers don't throw 115 miles an hour on average because not much has changed about physical ability...guys just train year round so they look better doing what they do now than they did in the 60s but it hasn't changed the landscape of how well they play the game or improved it.

 

[dave]

I just gave you facts as to why. skill position players are the same size, they trained year round in the 80s too...theres not some drastic difference in the jock the last 40 years aside from the fact most are actually dumber than they use to be and that's saying a lot because most jocks have always been dumb..they cant jump any higher on average and they don't run any faster... they aren't better or greater on average than they've ever been....outfield walls aren't getting deeper in baseball and pitchers don't throw 115 miles an hour on average because not much has changed about physical ability...guys just train year round so they look better doing what they do now than they did in the 60s but it hasn't changed the landscape of how well they play the game or improved it.

Link me to the facts, pal. There were no 6-5 240 lb. WRs like Calvin Johnson 40 years ago, there were no 6-8 250 lb. players like LeBron James 40 years ago, there were no 6-9 255 lb. Zdeno Charas 40 years ago...

 

[Tailback U]

If you think the linebackers in 1970 are as quick and explosive laterally and in coverage as they are today then you are smoking crack.

Maybe a few of them. But as a whole no way. Sure, there were some freaks 30-40 years ago. There are a lot more today.

 

[Tailback U]

Double post

 

[ram29jackson]

Link me to the facts, pal. There were no 6-5 240 lb. WRs like Calvin Johnson 40 years ago, there were no 6-8 250 lb. players like LeBron James 40 years ago, there were no 6-9 255 lb. Zdeno Charas 40 years ago...

what the hell does a guy being a heavier weight have to do with them being better athletes ? you are coming up with freakish singular examples of players who stand out to you. That doesn't make it any form of a norm or an increase in anything.

magic Johnson was 6'8" 215 lbs, so whats your point ? some guys guys are physically bigger, some aren't. Its always been that way and doesn't change the skill set needed for the sport.

Dr J and MJ and Kobe were all 6'6" and between 195-200, pounds the 3 greatest sky walkers of their eras = there have been no extreme changes