How Long Till Rich Rod is Fired?

[longhornfan]

Kle's in here now, shit just got real.

 

[Sportsbuck]

LOLOLOLOLOL.

Believe me, Michigan doesn't have less talent than OSU, especially after being at both places for practices over the summer. With more knowledge of the offense, UM will be scary SCARY good. They look INCREDIBLE in practice...it's all about putting it onto a live defense, which they just haven't done enough of.

But hey, keep up with your mindset...it will just make it that much better when the tables are turned.

LOLOLOLOLOL. See, I can do it too.

You'll be likely starting a true frosh at QB who has the frame of a stick, your offensive line is pretty average, Minor is the lone star on the offense, and your receiving core is made up of around 30 slot dots who average 5'10 and around 175 pounds.

David Cone broke a 50 yard run on your defense in the spring game. He of the 5.12 40 time. I'm pretty sure that if David Cone could play that good anyone would look good against that defense in practice.

And Michigan doesn't have less talent than Ohio State? Give me a break.

 

[Sportsbuck]

Sorry, but 3 QB's aren't going to be "rotated"

I'd be absolutely shocked if Sheridan if even gets up off the bench, and the only time Denard Robinson will be in will be for a package of plays specifically for him (ala wildcat-ish stuff).

And reports out of practice say that Forcier has been unable to distance himself from Robinson, a guy who is a future slot receiver or DB when Gardner gets here, despite being in Ann Arbor all spring.

No defense...LOL. Yes. I assume if you want to call one of the best young secondaries in the country and the best defensive lineman in the Big 10 "no defense"...then sure.

LMAO, you always had a talent for exaggeration but this is ridiculous.

One of the best young secondaries in the nation? Right, that Donovan Warren sure was impresssive last year, and Cissoko just screamed cream of the crop. The safeties aren't anything to write home about either, I really don't get why you would call them one of the best young secondaries in the nation when no one related to Michigan has even remotely suggested that.

Then again, I guess I better watch out because Justin Feagin is easily going to be better than Terrelle Pryor.

 

[Sportsbuck]

I see you've been hanging around the Spartan boards where they're still in denial that UM is still stomping them in recruiting, therefore calling every WR, RB, or CB a "slotdot" for no reason whatsoever.

No, I call those that are < 5-10 and < 180 pounds a slotdot.

Please stop. First of all, Tate is now at *almost* 6'2", and 205.

IIRC, Sven stood next to Tate and commented that he was barely taller than him, and Sven said he was like 5'9.

Second of all, if you believe Tate is 6'2 and 205 then I have some oceanfront property in Nebraska I'd like to talk to you about.

Second of all, offensive line is still much *much* improved from last year. Last year nobody was ready to run the offense, and now most of the offensive line, while not the best talent-wise, all dropped at least 20 pounds of fat and added muscle to the tune of about 10 pounds. This alone is going to help out immensely.

I'll give you that, a year in the system is going to help out the offense immensely, but that still doesn't mean they are going to be much improved.

Minor the lone star on offense? Oh. Ok. I guess I forgot Odoms, arguably a top 5 receiver in the conference last year, and Mathews who is among the best when not injured.

Odoms top 5? That is a joke, the man averaged less than 10 YPC last year, he probably wasn't even a top 10 WR in the conference either. Mathews is an okay wide reciever, but not the kind you would expect on a Michigan football team.

Average 5'10" 175 pounds on the wideouts? Ok...I guess except, just counting the starters...Mathews at 6'3" 215, Hemingway at 6'1" 220, Stonum at 6'2" 196, and then the ACTUAL slots, Odoms at 5'9" 180, and Roundtree at 6'1" 175.

Yeah, and lets take a look at all of the slot receivers on the roster... and all of the ones committed for next year, and the ones that still have offers next year. You'll notice I said entire receiver core, not starters.

Stonum... the guy that looked so lost in the fall that LaTerryal Savoy (Who? Exactly) was taking away reps from him? Hemmingway is coming off of a barrage of injuries so it will be interesting to see how he performs, and RR even commented that he's not where he needs to be.

Also, big LOL to you taking things away from a spring game. That's not even worth a comment. I guess this is the point where I say that Pryor got sacked way too much and looked slow in OSU's spring game when I was watching it on BTN. On top of that, I like how you conveniently leave out that during the spring game, the QB's were basically untouchable.

You know what, that really stopped Tate Forcier from breaking Stevie Brown's ankles and taking it into the Michigan secondary.

Ohio State's spring game is different than Michigan's, for Ohio State they pick teams and you have guys playing out of position (Justin Boren at left tackle for example) so obviously the advantage would go to the defense. Doesn't change the fact that there was pressure but regardless, Pryor tore up the defense through the air and showed a much improved arm and ability to read the defense.

 

[Sportsbuck]

SB, I know you know a lot about OSU, I know I know a lot about UM. It's pointless to argue this shit because you're going to come up with something you read (no matter if true or not) to refute something, and I'm going to do the same.

I'm putting my two cents in here to defend my team because you're posting things to insult UM just for the sake of insulting UM, when it seems pointless at this juncture. If this was 2006, sure, I'm all for it. But it's pointless. I know where UM stands in things, I know where OSU stands in things, and so do you. You do you and I'll do me, don't post your "UM is a piece of shit just because I fucking said so" shit and then I won't post my "OSU is a piece of shit just because I fucking said so" shit.

Deal.

But I don't write just to insult Michigan.

Let me be clear about my opinion on Rich Rodgriguez's Michigan. I believe that if he has the time that Michigan's offense will continually be one of the most explosive in the country, that I know for sure because RR is an offensive guru and it will eventually happen. I question whether the defense will ever be able to match it though... Florida in recent years has shown that you need an elite defense to win regardless of how good your offense is and from what I've seen it has me wondering.

 

[JeremyHight]

I think Sportsbuck is forgetting something...

Michigan players only started doing squats just last year. With more experience with the lift, they will be damn near unstoppable!

lol, anyone else remember Kle going on and on last year how RR was going to make everything great in Michigan, only to have them go 3-9? Well, at least they don't need to go through Toledo this year, lol.

 

[longhornfan]

WTF? A truce? I was hoping you two would go back and fourth for about 3 pages.

 

[Woy]

I love me a good OSU-Michigan argument.

 

[FedEx227]

lol, anyone else remember Kle going on and on last year how RR was going to make everything great in Michigan, only to have them go 3-9? Well, at least they don't need to go through Toledo this year, lol.

Um... it's not very easy to run the spread option with a power rushing/passing team.

No program can switch offenses like that and be successful in their first year. There's always that drop off. He had fuckin Steven Threet as an option back...

 

[FedEx227]

Yeah, that was definitely a bad move, but I guess he wanted to get those returning a full-out idea of how the offense was going to run.

It was a stupid idea but it very well may benefit a lot of the returning guys this year.

 

[NAHSTE]

Yes. Because an entire top notch D1 football program is turned over in one season!!!

We'll see what everyone has to say as the spread becomes more popular in college football, and Michigan has already mastered it while the rest of the Big 10 starts moving into it and the rest of them take their year or two of struggling.

?

Northwestern has been running the spread/read option for 5 years, they run it better than anyone in that conference. Purdue has been running a passing version of the spread forever, Ohio State uses a ton of spread elements too.

LOL at you implying Michigan is ahead of the curve and every team will all be copying them soon. Sounds a lot like when you said Michigan's strength coach was doing techniques unseen anywhere else in CFB, even though olympic style lifts have been in use everywhere except Ann Arbor for decades.

 

[Buzzman]

Odom wasnt top 5 LOL maybe Top 20 he couldnt do anything unless he was in the slot and had a LB on him. Mathews though with a good Qb could be real good.

 

[NAHSTE]

I think Michigan losing to Toledo is just as bad as App St.

then you are a retard

That's a bit harsh. Appy State is a solid program, and I'm sure their talent level is comparable to Toledo's. They only lost to LSU 24-7 the year before beating Michigan, so it's not like they are a total doormat. Plus Toledo was a low finisher in the MAC.

I think App. State would be able to handle Toledo, and losing to Toledo is just as bad as losing to the Mountaineers.

LOL at Michigan for doing either however.

 

[Sven Draconian]

1) Tate Forcier is 5'10...tops. I'm 5'7 and when I stood next to him we were damn close. If we were to get into a fight, I would be able to snap him like a twig.

2) LOL at WVU winning with superior talent. Owen Schmidt wasn't even listed on Rivals, Pat White was a 2 star QB, Steve Slaton was a 3 star RB. Mozes was a 2 star as well. They were hardly loaded with stars.

3) Michigans S&C program should help develop players like it did at WVU. The previous program was awful, Barwis really modernized it and I'm expecting to say major improvements. For example, Brandon Graham dropped from 300 pounds when Rich Rod arrived and never having done a power clean and dropped down to 250s, gained it back to the 270s and can clean 465 (according to Barwis at a clinic). That was from february.

4) The Offensive Line should be much, much, much improved. They did steadily improve during the season last year and have 7 players back whos started at some point.

5) The running backs should be better. Minor is a good back and they go 3 deep behind him. Not sure they have a game-breaker here, certainly no Steve Slaton, but if the QB's can run than this group is dangerous.

Unfortunately, I don't see too many good things for the defense. Graham and Obi are solid. I liked what I saw out of Max Martin last year. The rest have a lot to prove IMO. Not a Donovan Warren fan at all. I really like the Greg Robinson hiring and I think he alone will vastly imporve their tackling, but I'm unsure of the back 7 as a whole.

I'm giving them a 70/30 chance of beating Western. The Broncos are pretty solid and Michigan is going to go with Freshman at QB and they face a pretty tough senior QB. Not a great matchup. I think the line for Michigan can win the game, but I wouldn't be shocked if they lost.

If they win convincingly in week 1, I think they win 8-9 games (including bowl). If they drop the opener I can see them struggling for bowl eligibility. They really need a confidence boost right now, and winning cures all ills. Unfortunatley, losing makes you sicker.

 

[NAHSTE]

I still don't understand the "you're starting a freshman QB so you're going to suck" argument. Again, I'll say...T-Force ran the *exact* same offense for four years in high school. Nearly the *exact* same playbook. He's not the typical true freshman, coming in, learning something entirely new, and having to learn on the fly. He's been doing this for four years already, and he just has to adjust to the speed, which shouldn't be that big of a deal considering his own team is going to be faster too, not just the defense...

Also, I know it's unrelated...but the last guy Michigan started as a true freshman has his name at the top of almost every school passing record...and nearly every freshman school passing record.

If you're talking about Chad Henne, he is not exactly elite company. In fact, he's pretty much a joke since he started all 4 years and never got better. And how hard is it to break a freshman school passing record? How many freshman QBs actually get to pass that much, especially at Michigan? As for the career records, more of an accumulation than an achievement IMO.

I don't know how MIchigan will do this year, but the last freshman QB to start for Michigan was an no talent assclown.

 

[dave]

The spread works in the SEC and southern U.S. states because the weather is co-operative.
In the Big 10, the spread just isn't practical as a full-time offence because eventually the weather will hit.

 

[Woy]

1) Tate Forcier is 5'10...tops. I'm 5'7 and when I stood next to him we were damn close. If we were to get into a fight, I would be able to snap him like a twig.

2) LOL at WVU winning with superior talent. Owen Schmidt wasn't even listed on Rivals, Pat White was a 2 star QB, Steve Slaton was a 3 star RB. Mozes was a 2 star as well. They were hardly loaded with stars.

3) Michigans S&C program should help develop players like it did at WVU. The previous program was awful, Barwis really modernized it and I'm expecting to say major improvements. For example, Brandon Graham dropped from 300 pounds when Rich Rod arrived and never having done a power clean and dropped down to 250s, gained it back to the 270s and can clean 465 (according to Barwis at a clinic). That was from february.

4) The Offensive Line should be much, much, much improved. They did steadily improve during the season last year and have 7 players back whos started at some point.

5) The running backs should be better. Minor is a good back and they go 3 deep behind him. Not sure they have a game-breaker here, certainly no Steve Slaton, but if the QB's can run than this group is dangerous.

Unfortunately, I don't see too many good things for the defense. Graham and Obi are solid. I liked what I saw out of Max Martin last year. The rest have a lot to prove IMO. Not a Donovan Warren fan at all. I really like the Greg Robinson hiring and I think he alone will vastly imporve their tackling, but I'm unsure of the back 7 as a whole.

I'm giving them a 70/30 chance of beating Western. The Broncos are pretty solid and Michigan is going to go with Freshman at QB and they face a pretty tough senior QB. Not a great matchup. I think the line for Michigan can win the game, but I wouldn't be shocked if they lost.

If they win convincingly in week 1, I think they win 8-9 games (including bowl). If they drop the opener I can see them struggling for bowl eligibility. They really need a confidence boost right now, and winning cures all ills. Unfortunatley, losing makes you sicker.

They did have 5-star back Jason Gwaltney, but after he got hurt, Slaton stepped in and the rest was history.

 

[Senser81]

2) LOL at WVU winning with superior talent. Owen Schmidt wasn't even listed on Rivals, Pat White was a 2 star QB, Steve Slaton was a 3 star RB. Mozes was a 2 star as well. They were hardly loaded with stars.

Thats nice. A lot of those guys ended up in the NFL. I remember the WVU days when they had Major Harris at QB and 4 white guys playing DB. WVU had a lot of NFL-caliber players under Rodriguez...to say otherwise is foolish. Then when you compare WVU to the rest of the weak Big East, you see how guys like Pat White and Steve Slaton would tear thru defenses.

And my point still remains that Rodriguez can't get the same type of player (athletic thug) admitted into Michigan...which is a big problem.

 

[Sven Draconian]

I still don't understand the "you're starting a freshman QB so you're going to suck" argument. Again, I'll say...T-Force ran the *exact* same offense for four years in high school. Nearly the *exact* same playbook. He's not the typical true freshman, coming in, learning something entirely new, and having to learn on the fly. He's been doing this for four years already, and he just has to adjust to the speed, which shouldn't be that big of a deal considering his own team is going to be faster too, not just the defense...

Also, I know it's unrelated...but the last guy Michigan started as a true freshman has his name at the top of almost every school passing record...and nearly every freshman school passing record.

I like how you dismiss the speed adjustment factor. Lets assume that the playbooks are similar (though, it's laughable to think his high school playbook was just as complicated as Rich Rods), heres something to consider.

While relative speed may be the same (IE, both teams are going faster) the human brains reaction time does not improve. Certainly a person can improve their reactions, but, there is a limit to how quickly our brain works. In short, regardless of how experienced he may be in high school, the players are going to move faster and his reactions aren't going to be spot on.

Further, you mentioned previously how great they looked in practice, without a live defense. Defense tends to change things.

As for the Henne arguement, you seem to be forgetting his freshman year. He had (arguably) the greatest WR in michigan history, Braylon Edwards, jumping over defenders making grabs for him. He frequently just dropped back and lobbed it up. Under pressure? Throw it to Braylong. 3rd down? Throw it to Braylon.

It was hardly some great feet of quarterbacking.

If you're talking about Chad Henne, he is not exactly elite company. In fact, he's pretty much a joke since he started all 4 years and never got better. And how hard is it to break a freshman school passing record? How many freshman QBs actually get to pass that much, especially at Michigan? As for the career records, more of an accumulation than an achievement IMO.

I don't know how MIchigan will do this year, but the last freshman QB to start for Michigan was an no talent assclown.

Err, uh I wouldn't exactly call him a no talent assclown. He was a second round pick. You are correct though, he never improved over his 4 seasons. He was a consistently good college QB, never great.

The spread works in the SEC and southern U.S. states because the weather is co-operative.
In the Big 10, the spread just isn't practical as a full-time offence because eventually the weather will hit.

The weather arguement is silly. What does it really effect? WR's catching? No, they all have gloves. QB's getting the snap? No, they have handwarmers. RBs catching a pitch? Again, no, they have gloves.

Bad footing helps the offense far more than the defense, it's much, much, much more difficult to cover a recevier if you can't plant and drive.

The regular season ends in November, often before the first snow of the year. You might get a cold game, but typically the worst weather you deal with is 40's and rainy Sure, it stinks, but it isn't going to ruin your spread offense.

 

[Sven Draconian]

Thats nice. A lot of those guys ended up in the NFL. I remember the WVU days when they had Major Harris at QB and 4 white guys playing DB. WVU had a lot of NFL-caliber players under Rodriguez...to say otherwise is foolish. Then when you compare WVU to the rest of the weak Big East, you see how guys like Pat White and Steve Slaton would tear thru defenses.

And my point still remains that Rodriguez can't get the same type of player (athletic thug) admitted into Michigan...which is a big problem.

The athletic thug portion is a good point, the michigan-heads explain away because "They won't need those kids." I don't know if it's true or not, but it definately cuts down on the recruiting pool.

My point is not that they wern't more talented, it's that they developed no-talent kids into NFL draft choices. If they can take relative "no names" like White, Slaton and Schmidt and turn them into NFL players, then imagine what they will do with 4 and 5 star recruits.

The arguement that they were way more talented than their opponents does an injustice to Rich Rod. They didn't start off more talented, they developed talent. It's not like Utah where they are a high class program than their competition, they simply out recruited and out coached their opponents to have more talented kids.