Jeff Fisher needs to be fired, right now.

[Herm]

the only positive i noticed from today is that the staff has changed Rusty Smith's throwing motion. When i saw him in the preseason it was crazy, they seemed to have him throwing a little more normal now.

 

[Herm]

I feel I might feel this way about the Schwartz in about 3 years. The whole thing with VY today was insane, cannot believe he threw his pads into the stands.

He is denying it right now via his twitter. I didnt see it as i was walking out of the stadium at that point. If it did happen he deserves the same fine if any that Brandon Jacobs got for throwing his helmet into the stands.

 

[Woy]

I also saw that, Herm. His release looked really funky during pre-season, but it looks a lot smoother now. Dinger LOVES Rusty, so if he gets the call for the rest of the year, maybe we'll see some more signs as of why he does. That 50+ yard pass to Washington was pretty nice.

This is pretty obvious, but with everything that happened, if Fisher isn't fired during the season, I honestly don't see Vince playing another down in 2010. This dysfunctional relationship can not be repaired.

 

[Herm]

I also saw that, Herm. His release looked really funky during pre-season, but it looks a lot smoother now. Dinger LOVES Rusty, so if he gets the call for the rest of the year, maybe we'll see some more signs as of why he does. That 50+ yard pass to Washington was pretty nice.

This is pretty obvious, but with everything that happened, if Fisher isn't fired during the season, I honestly don't see Vince playing another down in 2010. This dysfunctional relationship can not be repaired.

Howard Schnellenburger who coached some pretty decent qbs during his many different coaching stints claims Rusty is the best qb he ever coached. A late round rookie starting in the nfl doesnt get me all hot and bothered though.


Woy i havent looked at GoTitans all season, but im going to check it out for Shits and gigs right now.

 

[Woy]

Howard Schnellenburger who coached some pretty decent qbs during his many different coaching stints claims Rusty is the best qb he ever coached. A late round rookie starting in the nfl doesnt get me all hot and bothered though.


Woy i havent looked at GoTitans all season, but im going to check it out for Shits and gigs right now.

Hey, he could end up like another 6th round draft pick. :shifty: It would be nice for Rusty to pan out just because of his name, but I'm not going to get pissed about it if he doesn't.

And it's pretty crazy over there and on titanscentral.net.

 

[Irish]

Just some responses to Irish's posts.

First off, he's right about the offensive philosophy, for the most part. He doesn't mention however that Fisher ran Eddie George into the ground throughout his career, which is why he was always injured late in his career.

Eddie was injured at the end of his career because of the way he ran. He was a big bruiser who ran straight up and took blows rather than absorbing them. That wouldn't be that big of a deal if he was built like Bettis. But Eddie was way more muscled than him and when Eddie would run throw the line with his shoulder pads straight up and absorbed blows for 9 years. That body can't handle that. Nothing Fisher could do thats what Eddie did and he did it well.

That being said, I think you should dismiss the '06 and '07 seasons in regards to the offensive philosophy because Norm Chow was the offensive coordinator and his scheme was just horrendous. Vince wasn't good during that time, but Chow needs to take most of the blame for that.

So Vince Young has been without Chow for a while know and I don't see much of a change.

However, I'm sure our old punishing running game approach would work well with a 5'10", 190 pound scatback. Let's run him against 8-9 man fronts 25+ times a game and see how many games we win. He really wore down at the end of last season after we clearly made it our goal to get him 2K. Could you imagine a whole season of that? Yeah, Ringer might give him more blows to keep him rested, but with the stacked box, running the ball constantly against it only forces you into three-and-outs and that kills time of possession.

CJ only has 2-3 more years at best of being a good NFL running back. Why not use him and abuse him while you can. So you wear out his tires a little early by the time it catches up to him he won't be that elite talent anymore anyway. This is the prime of his career use him to its fullest. Maybe use Ringer more but it won't make that big of a difference.

A record barely over .500 speaks for itself however. Yes, we've had some good-great regular seasons over that span, but where have we went in the playoffs? Loss to the Ravens in 2000 at home in the opener after having the league's best record (13-3), loss to the Raiders in the 2002 AFC Championship game after needing a Joe Nedney acting job to get by Pittsburgh in the previous round, loss to the Patriots in 2003 at home, loss to the Chargers in 2007 after leading at halftime (second loss after leading at half against them that season), loss to a Ravens team in 2008 with a rookie starting quarterback with once again the league's best record (13-3). You see a pattern? Yeah, that great "coaching" by Fisher gets us some damn nice regular season records, but nothing to show for it. Are you satisfied with a double-digit win season and then an early exit in the playoffs? I'm sure as hell not.

All those teams he lost to went on to do big things in the playoffs. Ravens 00, Raiders 02, Pats 03. All went to the super bowl.

I've said this before but since Tenn doesnt bring in elite talent, its a great coaching that gives them the chance to even compete with these teams. Never have the Titans been a huge favorite in the league. Fisher took so many scrubs to the playoffs. Rarely do Pro Bowl players come out of Tennessee but they end up making a mark somewhere late in the season.

Until Nashville becomes a huge media market or is willing to spend cash, they will always hover on the fringe and need to get lucky to be great. Again nothing Fisher can control.

You also make the statement that Fisher turns nobodies into good players. How about commenting on his loyalty towards shit players? Donnie Nickey, Lamont Thompson, Nick Harper, Reynaldo Hill...I could go on and on. Fisher continued to give them chances after every fuck up. Nickey could have been cut in pre-season to retain LaGarrette Blount, but nah, let's keep our special teams captain who's biggest highlight this year is punching a ref in the SD game and getting ejected.

Interesting that you named all defensive backs here. Because what else should Fisher do, cut those guys, and bring in some other undrafted free agents to take there place?

Instead he takes the guys he has and does what he can to make them play good.

The Titans aren't gonna be able to cut people, pay there salaries and sign someone else as well. They just don't have that kind of money. Harper and Thompson were HEADLINE signings when they signed as free agents. Thats how cheap they are.

Its not that he loved those guys and kept them on the team as greed. Its simply easier to keep a guy with a contract, who knows the playbook and has some experience with the system than to bring in some other undrafted free agent and hope he turns into a star. They aren't going to go out and sign a Cromartie in the prime of their career at max dollars and hope it works out.

If you want a big season here and there with some 8-8's sprinkled in between, then you obviously want Fisher to stay. A new coach and possibly a new quarterback (even though I still think Vince can be the guy) could give this team the spark they need to get to the next level. Look at Baltimore (albeit, they always had that great defense) and Atlanta when they made the switch after awful seasons. Sure, it could end up a bust, but with some of the young studs we have (Chris Johnson, Kenny Britt, Jason Jones, Michael Griffin), I see a new coach being more than likely an upgrade instead of the same 'ol shit with Fisher every year.

Again I think it would be terrible timing right now. This team isn't in rebuild mode. They are atleast 2-3 years til that. If you want Fisher out then wait for a below 500 season and do it. But this team now just needs a QB that won't be a fuck up. The pieces are in place, they just need the final one to get us into the playoffs and then hope it all comes through.


----


Living in Tennessee all my life and seeing Titans fans I have seen this before. Nashville isn't the media or sports market of a New York/Chicago/Pittsburgh. They don't bring in the kinds of money to sign big name free agents or even re sign guys sometimes. They have to get young guys that will play for cheap and try to coach them up. They aren't gonna throw 50 million at player in free agency or this team could easily be a super bowl contender with Fisher.

Look at the players Fisher has won with throughout the years. None are that good and none ever do anything once they leave Tennessee.

 

[Woy]

Eddie was injured at the end of his career because of the way he ran. He was a big bruiser who ran straight up and took blows rather than absorbing them. That wouldn't be that big of a deal if he was built like Bettis. But Eddie was way more muscled than him and when Eddie would run throw the line with his shoulder pads straight up and absorbed blows for 9 years. That body can't handle that. Nothing Fisher could do thats what Eddie did and he did it well.

Still, with less carries from him, we could have had him healthy for an extra year or two, which could have made a difference possibly.

So Vince Young has been without Chow for a while know and I don't see much of a change.

12 TD/13 INT in 2006, 9 TD/17 INT in 2007 (under Chow)
10 TD/7 INT in 2009, 10 TD/3 INT in 2010 (under Dinger)

No change, huh?

CJ only has 2-3 more years at best of being a good NFL running back. Why not use him and abuse him while you can. So you wear out his tires a little early by the time it catches up to him he won't be that elite talent anymore anyway. This is the prime of his career use him to its fullest. Maybe use Ringer more but it won't make that big of a difference.

Or you can keep him fresh and he can be at his peak for a longer period of time, a la Barry Sanders. Although I don't want to make the full comparison between the two, CJ reminds me mostly of Sanders, so when you have an elite talent like that, you don't try swinging for the fences and get a few good years out of him, then move onto the next one. You balance it out and let him be consistently good for a period of time.

All those teams he lost to went on to do big things in the playoffs. Ravens 00, Raiders 02, Pats 03. All went to the super bowl.

We beat the Ravens in both 00 and 08, so there was no excuse for us not to do it again. I'll admit that the Raiders were a bad example because I remember them handing a beatdown to us both in the regular season and in the playoffs. The Pats game was very winnable.

I've said this before but since Tenn doesnt bring in elite talent, its a great coaching that gives them the chance to even compete with these teams. Never have the Titans been a huge favorite in the league. Fisher took so many scrubs to the playoffs. Rarely do Pro Bowl players come out of Tennessee but they end up making a mark somewhere late in the season.

Maybe that's on the position coaches. Look at what Jim Washburn does with the defensive line, Mike Munchak does with the offensive line, etc. We haven't been able to plug in scrubs at skill positions, but on the lines, we can be successful because of Wash and Munch. I do believe if Fisher were to be fired, the loss of those two coaches would be big.

Interesting that you named all defensive backs here. Because what else should Fisher do, cut those guys, and bring in some other undrafted free agents to take there place?

Instead he takes the guys he has and does what he can to make them play good.

Well, there were guys on the market during the off-season that could replace those guys. I mean, look at the Rod Hood signing last year. He wasn't great, but he was definitely an improvement over Harper.

The Titans aren't gonna be able to cut people, pay there salaries and sign someone else as well. They just don't have that kind of money. Harper and Thompson were HEADLINE signings when they signed as free agents. Thats how cheap they are.

And that's a problem. Unless you're an elite coach - Belichick and Tomlin are examples of guys who take "scrubs" and win Super Bowls with them - you need to get some top talent in order to be a SB contender, IMO.

Again I think it would be terrible timing right now. This team isn't in rebuild mode. They are atleast 2-3 years til that. If you want Fisher out then wait for a below 500 season and do it. But this team now just needs a QB that won't be a fuck up. The pieces are in place, they just need the final one to get us into the playoffs and then hope it all comes through.

This season might be a below-.500 one if the team doesn't get their asses in gear. Not to mention his mishandling of the Vince Young situation (bench him during the PIT game, sit him against MIA when he was clearly good enough to play and now today) as well as his other mishaps with Titans quarterbacks have worn its welcome with me. This is the third time this season we have had more talent than the opponent and still lost...and that happens quite a bit under Fisher.

Look at the players Fisher has won with throughout the years. None are that good and none ever do anything once they leave Tennessee.

But has he won a Super Bowl with them?

That's the main goal of every team, and frankly despite our talent in a bunch of spots, I don't see this team winning one with Fisher as the coach. You would think after 17 years, we'd have at least one ring.

 

[Irish]

12 TD/13 INT in 2006, 9 TD/17 INT in 2007 (under Chow)
10 TD/7 INT in 2009, 10 TD/3 INT in 2010 (under Dinger)

No change, huh?

Id give that soley to experince in the league and comfort with his surroundings. Nothing that shows any real progress towards him becoming the guy we need.

Or you can keep him fresh and he can be at his peak for a longer period of time, a la Barry Sanders. Although I don't want to make the full comparison between the two, CJ reminds me mostly of Sanders, so when you have an elite talent like that, you don't try swinging for the fences and get a few good years out of him, then move onto the next one. You balance it out and let him be consistently good for a period of time.

Ok we take it easy with CJ and give him 15 touches a game. Then what? Who else on this team could make plays? CJ is the offense. That is just the way it is. You want the ball in CJ's hands as much as possible. Once CJ can not be the center of the offense, then take it easy on him. But he only has a few years left with this elite speed no matter how many touches he gets. Take advantage of it.

We beat the Ravens in both 00 and 08, so there was no excuse for us not to do it again. I'll admit that the Raiders were a bad example because I remember them handing a beatdown to us both in the regular season and in the playoffs. The Pats game was very winnable.

They could have won those Pats/Ravens games. Its just bad luck that they didn't. That's football. Is some of it Fisher's fault? Yes. But you can't go after the coach's head because he took his teams to the playoffs and they got beat by the better team that day.

Maybe that's on the position coaches. Look at what Jim Washburn does with the defensive line, Mike Munchak does with the offensive line, etc. We haven't been able to plug in scrubs at skill positions, but on the lines, we can be successful because of Wash and Munch. I do believe if Fisher were to be fired, the loss of those two coaches would be big.

Yes I agree a lot of it is because of those two guys. They are probably our best weapons in the franchise for 10 years and more to come. Drop Fisher and you drop the two most valuable people in the organization. Worth it?

Well, there were guys on the market during the off-season that could replace those guys. I mean, look at the Rod Hood signing last year. He wasn't great, but he was definitely an improvement over Harper.

Again this is all timing and money. They do what they can to try to improve but most of the time, it just makes more financial sense to keep what they have.

And that's a problem. Unless you're an elite coach - Belichick and Tomlin are examples of guys who take "scrubs" and win Super Bowls with them - you need to get some top talent in order to be a SB contender, IMO.

Fisher isn't an elite coach. But if they fire him, who is the elite coach they can sign? Fisher is an above average coach who knows the organization and gets respect from his players. He gives us the best chance to get to a super bowl. Titans are never gonna be a dynasty. If they get to the super bowl its gonna be like the Marlins in the series a couple years ago. They are gonna have to get a little lucky and capitalize on everything.

This season might be a below-.500 one if the team doesn't get their asses in gear. Not to mention his mishandling of the Vince Young situation (bench him during the PIT game, sit him against MIA when he was clearly good enough to play and now today) as well as his other mishaps with Titans quarterbacks have worn its welcome with me. This is the third time this season we have had more talent than the opponent and still lost...and that happens quite a bit under Fisher.

VY doesn't deserve to be on the field right now. He is way too immature. Is he being handled perfectly? No. But he isn't help the cause either by getting into trouble and being a drama queen all the time. Most people in Tennessee are more tired of VY's antics over Fisher's inability to win a super bowl.

But has he won a Super Bowl with them?

That's the main goal of every team, and frankly despite our talent in a bunch of spots, I don't see this team winning one with Fisher as the coach. You would think after 17 years, we'd have at least one ring.

Again it is unrealistic to think the Titans will be competing for super bowls year in and year out. Thats what people don't seem to understand. Most people in small markets will understand. Teams like Carolina, Jacksonville, Kansas City know that a trip to the playoffs is a success. Its not like New York where you win the super bowl or the season is a failure. Its a little cynical to think about it like that, but thats the way it is. Tennessee will have to be lucky to get to the superbowl like in 99. They aren't built to be a playoff powerhouse.

 

[Bmore]

btw, The Ravens beat Kerry Collins in the 2008 playoffs... not a rookie Vince Young.

 

[Woy]

btw, The Ravens beat Kerry Collins in the 2008 playoffs... not a rookie Vince Young.

:facepalm: No fucking shit.

 

[Bear Pand]

Fisher is the best coach in the AFC South.

 

[CaribbeanJoseph]

As big a VY fan as I am (Herm can vouch lol) and as much as I think Fish has mishandled him at times this is mostly on VY, you just can't behave like he did today. Some Titans fans are fucking delusional, Irish is 100% correct about realistic expectations, there's no way we are able to compete for the SB year in, year out, we've always been over achievers. Fisher constantly gets the best out of scrubs and we're almost always in playoff contention (04 and 05 are the only seasons in recent memory that were write-offs), we have it better than most small market fans and the fans who want rid of Fish are fucking morons. I hope that this situation can be worked out and it really pains me to say it because I love them both and I still 100% believe VY can be that franchise guy but if they can't co-exist then VY has to go

 

[Woy]

Id give that soley to experince in the league and comfort with his surroundings. Nothing that shows any real progress towards him becoming the guy we need.

No, it's because of Heimendinger's offense and his progression in it. I've watched almost every game of his since he entered the league and he's a much better quarterback since his rookie and second year.

Ok we take it easy with CJ and give him 15 touches a game. Then what? Who else on this team could make plays? CJ is the offense. That is just the way it is. You want the ball in CJ's hands as much as possible. Once CJ can not be the center of the offense, then take it easy on him. But he only has a few years left with this elite speed no matter how many touches he gets. Take advantage of it.

I'd give CJ 20 touches a game, not 15. The way you were talking, I thought you wanted CJ to touch the ball 30 times a game, which might give you explosive plays at the beginning of the season, but he would be extremely worn down by the end of the year when we would need him the most. As for other players that can make plays, I'm confident in our receiving corps, especially Britt. I think Jared Cook can be a very dangerous weapon, but Fisher doesn't play him as much as he should.

They could have won those Pats/Ravens games. Its just bad luck that they didn't. That's football. Is some of it Fisher's fault? Yes. But you can't go after the coach's head because he took his teams to the playoffs and they got beat by the better team that day.

But it consistently happens. 2000 we had arguably the best team and lost, 2008 we had arguably the best team and lost. 17 seasons as head coach and 5-6 playoff record (3 of those coming in the SB year, when we needed the MCM to beat a Rob Johnson-led Bills team). Forgive me if I want a change because I'm tired of mediocrity in the post-season.

Yes I agree a lot of it is because of those two guys. They are probably our best weapons in the franchise for 10 years and more to come. Drop Fisher and you drop the two most valuable people in the organization. Worth it?

As much as I love them as position coaches, once again, what results do we have from their coaching besides individual ones?

Fisher isn't an elite coach. But if they fire him, who is the elite coach they can sign? Fisher is an above average coach who knows the organization and gets respect from his players. He gives us the best chance to get to a super bowl. Titans are never gonna be a dynasty. If they get to the super bowl its gonna be like the Marlins in the series a couple years ago. They are gonna have to get a little lucky and capitalize on everything.

Was Tomlin or Belichick elite coaches when they found their way upon their respective teams? You don't know who the next elite coach out there. And although I agree he's one of the most respected coaches from his former players (obviously Vince doesn't think so), you don't need to be a players coach to win a Super Bowl or to have success in this league.

VY doesn't deserve to be on the field right now. He is way too immature. Is he being handled perfectly? No. But he isn't help the cause either by getting into trouble and being a drama queen all the time. Most people in Tennessee are more tired of VY's antics over Fisher's inability to win a super bowl.

Maybe if Fisher wouldn't pull him during the Pittsburgh game or start Collins over him against Miami when Vince was clearly ready to go, then there wouldn't be as many immaturity issues. Am I denying that he's immature? No. But I think he showed a lot more maturity last season when he came in because he didn't have to worry about being pulled for Collins like he does this year. And yes, I know people in Tennessee are more tired of all that.

I'm done arguing this because this is just getting into a multi-quote war between Irish and I and we both won't change our stances.

17 years, 141-115, .551 winning percentage, 6 playoff appearances. Can you blame me if I want a change from this mediocrity?

 

[Woy]

Fisher is the best coach in the AFC South.

Peyton Manning is a better coach.

















But honestly, I do agree with this.

 

[EmpireWF]

Beat writers for the Titans assume Vince Young will be placed on IR and has taken his last snap as a Titan.

Sucks for the guy but he's not mental tough...hopefully a new scene will help the kid out.

 

[Archer]

(Sorry if this has been mentioned already)

According to NFL Network's Mike Lombardi, the "feeling in the Titans' building" is that Vince Young is "extremely unreliable."
Young's teammates reportedly "know the real story about his work ethic," and it's not up to par. According to Lombardi, Young did miss treatments for his ankle injury last week, in addition to Friday team meetings. He also didn't even try to warm up on Sunday, "just accepting his number two status" behind Kerry Collins. V.Y. currently ranks fifth in the league in passer rating, but work ethic may be the main reason he's yet to realize his full potential.

Lombardi also talked about Young on Bill Simmons podcast and pretty much called him lazy/unprepared for most games.

EDIT: These comments were made last week but it might back up Fisher's decision a little.

 

[Golden Taters]

Fisher is a great coach. Like already stated, he isn't the problem.

 

[Helicopter]

I have zero problems with Fisher or his record as a head coach. The NFL is setup in such a way that teams are supposed to hover around the .500 mark over the stretch of a few years. They'll have great seasons, shitty seasons, and seasons in between. It all evens out to a .500 record, or thereabouts.

I do, and have had a problem with that clown Vince Young. He just doesn't get it. I've wanted him gone since he quit in that season opener against Jacksonville a few years ago.

 

[shag773]

Lombardi also talked about Young on Bill Simmons podcast and pretty much called him lazy/unprepared for most games.

EDIT: These comments were made last week but it might back up Fisher's decision a little.

Sounds a lot like Michael Vick circa 2007. Will Vince Young V2.0 be in Philly?

 

[shag773]

The cool thing about these sports forums is gaining a perspective from passionate fans of other teams. I can't tell you how many times my buddies and I would be drinking beers and talking about how different our organization would be if we hired Fisher when we had the chance.

While I still respect Jeff as a coach, Woy made me take a hard look at what Fisher has actually accomplished and some of his shortcomings as a coach and I can see how he may be overrated.

I can respect Irish's take, it just sounds like his tenure is just going in circles ending up in the same place every year. If I were a Titan's fan I would be at the point where I would want the front office to make a move.

In today's NFL, rebuilding plans don't necessarily mean 5 years. Spags has the Rams ready to make a big push in his 3rd year, and the Titans are nowhere near where the Rams were.