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April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OBB0"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I9UVY7G"]FIFA 2014 World Cup Brazil[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2G6"]Darksiders Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESY6G"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CPKUV7K"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGD6LMG"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHNC"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BG6ZHL4"]Murdered: Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGHY7LC"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DNGQQUQ"]Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Z[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H4BBVZQ"]Tomb Raider - 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John Cena's 50 Greatest Matches...?

The Shawn Raw match is fine at #2 but obviously the Punk match is his all-time best.

The top 10 isn't bad but the HHH WM match is DEFINITELY not a top 5 Cena match of all-time. The Angle match (his debut) should be higher than whatever it was.
 
50. John Cena vs. JBL: WrestleMania 21
49. John Cena, Hulk Hogan & Shawn Michaels vs. Christian, Tomko & Chris Jericho: Raw (June 27, 2005)
48. John Cena vs. The Great Khali: Judgment Day 2007
47. John Cena vs. Booker T: SummerSlam 2004
46. John Cena & The Rock vs. The Miz & R-Truth: Survivor Series 2011
45. John Cena vs. Kurt Angle: No Mercy 2003
44. WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match: Elimination Chamber 2011
43. John Cena vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison: Extreme Rules 2011
42. John Cena vs. Kane: Elimination Chamber 2012
41. Team WWE vs. The Nexus: Summerslam 2010
40. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge: Backlash 2006
39. John Cena vs. Randy Orton: Summerslam 2007
38. John Cena vs. Chris Jericho: Raw (Aug. 22, 2005)
37. John Cena, The Undertaker & DX vs. CM Punk & Legacy: Smackdown (Oct. 2, 2009)
36. John Cena vs. Wade Barrett: WWE TLC 2010
35. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar: Backlash 2003
34. John Cena vs. The Undertaker: Vengeance 2003
33. John Cena vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Edge: Raw (July 3, 2006)
32. WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match: New Year's Revolution 2006
31. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Big Show: The 25th Anniversary of WrestleMania
30. John Cena vs. Triple H: Raw (Oct. 19, 2009)
29. John Cena vs. Eddie Guerrero: SmackDown (Sept. 11, 2003)
28. John Cena & The Undertaker vs. DX vs. Jeri-Show: Raw (Nov. 16, 2009)
27. John Cena vs Batista: Extreme Rules 2010
26. John Cena vs. Sabu: WWE vs. ECW Head to Head (June 7, 2006)
25. John Cena vs. Edge: Backlash 2009
24. John Cena vs. Randy Orton: Breaking Point 2009
23. John Cena vs. Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson: WrestleMania 28
22. John Cena vs. Triple H: Night of Champions 2008
21. John Cena vs. Kurt Angle: No Way Out 2005
20. John Cena vs. JBL: Judgment Day 2005
19. 2008 Royal Rumble Match
18. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels: Survivor Series 2009
17. John Cena vs. The Undertaker: Smackdown (June 24, 2004)
16. John Cena vs. Big Show: WrestleMania XX
15. John Cena vs. Rob Van Dam: ECW One Night Stand 2006
14. John Cena vs. Chris Jericho: SummerSlam 2005
13. John Cena vs. Booker T: No Mercy 2004
12. John Cena vs. Rey Mysterio: RAW (July 25, 2011)
11. WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match: Elimination Chamber 2010
10. John Cena vs. Kurt Angle: SmackDown (June 27, 2002)
9. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels: WrestleMania 23
8. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar: Extreme Rules 2012
7. John Cena vs. Batista: Wrestlemania XXVI
6. John Cena vs. Umaga: Royal Rumble 2007
5. John Cena vs. CM Punk: Money in the Bank 2011
4. John Cena vs. Triple H: WrestleMania 22
3. John Cena vs. Randy Orton: Bragging Rights 2009
2. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels: RAW (April 23, 2007)
1. John Cena vs. Edge: Unforgiven 2006
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I have very little recollection of most of these matches, but i'm sure I didnt like most of them.

LOL@ 50, 48, 46, 16, 7. I remember those. All terrible.

The three best to me, were MITB, The Rock, and ONS vs RVD. Those three had the most heat, too. I'm a sucker for heat. Also, all three featured opponents who were more over than Cena was to the crowd they were working in front of.
 
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John Cena's "match" against Brock Lesnar this year at Extreme Rules doesn't deserve to be on there. In no way shape or form was that a wrestling match, just a beat down designed to carry out the storyline.
 
I thought John Cena's best match against an inferior worker is, and will always be, his match against Umaga where he choked him out with the ropes. I was a sucker for that ending.
 
Umaga was not an inferior worker. He was limited somewhat because of the gimmick, but he was a solid worker.

Cena got good matches out of Batista who definitely was inferior from a worker standpoint.
 
EmpireWF said:
Umaga was not an inferior worker. He was limited somewhat because of the gimmick, but he was a solid worker.

Cena got good matches out of Batista who definitely was inferior from a worker standpoint.
Click to expand...

He was an inferior worker to Cena, you illiterate twat. And, I'd love to see your examples of ol Umaga under any incarnation put together above a C- match.

And I don't think I ever dug any Batista matches against Cena...and, to be fair to Batista...he was carryable...kind of like a young Luger.
 
Umaga had some matches with Hardy that were good....in particular, the RAW Cage match was great.
 
I loved that MITB match from a crowd standpoint (you know since I was there) but technical-wise I thought that TLC match was really good and it told a great story.
 
Meltzer ratings for every match:


50. John Cena vs. JBL: WrestleMania 21 *1/4
49. John Cena, Hulk Hogan & Shawn Michaels vs. Christian, Tomko & Chris Jericho: Raw (June 27, 2005)
48. John Cena vs. The Great Khali: Judgment Day 2007 *3/4 (**1/2 to the rematch)
47. John Cena vs. Booker T: SummerSlam 2004 3/4*
46. John Cena & The Rock vs. The Miz & R-Truth: Survivor Series 2011 ***1/2
45. John Cena vs. Kurt Angle: No Mercy 2003 ****1/4
44. WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match: Elimination Chamber 2011 ****
43. John Cena vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison: Extreme Rules 2011 ****
42. John Cena vs. Kane: Elimination Chamber 2012 ***
41. Team WWE vs. The Nexus: Summerslam 2010 ***1/2
40. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge: Backlash 2006 ****1/4
39. John Cena vs. Randy Orton: Summerslam 2007 ****
38. John Cena vs. Chris Jericho: Raw (Aug. 22, 2005) ***1/2
37. John Cena, The Undertaker & DX vs. CM Punk & Legacy: Smackdown (Oct. 2, 2009) ***1/4
36. John Cena vs. Wade Barrett: WWE TLC 2010 ***3/4
35. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar: Backlash 2003 *1/4
34. John Cena vs. The Undertaker: Vengeance 2003 ***1/4
33. John Cena vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Edge: Raw (July 3, 2006) "okay"
32. WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match: New Year's Revolution 2006 ***1/2
31. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Big Show: The 25th Anniversary of WrestleMania ***1/4
30. John Cena vs. Triple H: Raw (Oct. 19, 2009) ***3/4
29. John Cena vs. Eddie Guerrero: SmackDown (Sept. 11, 2003) "entertaining"
28. John Cena & The Undertaker vs. DX vs. Jeri-Show: Raw (Nov. 16, 2009) "all action but short"
27. John Cena vs Batista: Extreme Rules 2010 ****1/4
26. John Cena vs. Sabu: WWE vs. ECW Head to Head (June 7, 2006) "far better than a lot of people feared"
25. John Cena vs. Edge: Backlash 2009 ****1/2
24. John Cena vs. Randy Orton: Breaking Point 2009 ****1/4
23. John Cena vs. Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson: WrestleMania 28 ***3/4
22. John Cena vs. Triple H: Night of Champions 2008 ***3/4
21. John Cena vs. Kurt Angle: No Way Out 2005 ***3/4
20. John Cena vs. JBL: Judgment Day 2005 ****1/4
19. 2008 Royal Rumble Match ****1/4
18. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels: Survivor Series 2009 ***3/4
17. John Cena vs. The Undertaker: Smackdown (June 24, 2004) ***3/4
16. John Cena vs. Big Show: WrestleMania XX *1/4
15. John Cena vs. Rob Van Dam: ECW One Night Stand 2006 ***1/4
14. John Cena vs. Chris Jericho: SummerSlam 2005 ***3/4
13. John Cena vs. Booker T: No Mercy 2004 **1/4
12. John Cena vs. Rey Mysterio: RAW (July 25, 2011) "great"
11. WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match: Elimination Chamber 2010 ***1/2
10. John Cena vs. Kurt Angle: SmackDown (June 27, 2002) "hot deal"
9. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels: WrestleMania 23 ****
8. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar: Extreme Rules 2012 ****1/4
7. John Cena vs. Batista: Wrestlemania XXVI ***1/2
6. John Cena vs. Umaga: Royal Rumble 2007 ****1/4
5. John Cena vs. CM Punk: Money in the Bank 2011 *****
4. John Cena vs. Triple H: WrestleMania 22 ***3/4
3. John Cena vs. Randy Orton: Bragging Rights 2009 ***1/2
2. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels: RAW (April 23, 2007) ****1/4
1. John Cena vs. Edge: Unforgiven 2006 ****1/4
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lots of *** mediocrity in there in Big Dave's view. Meltzer also really likes a lot of those generic HHH/Orton matches that to me all blend together and are indistinguishable. Edge seems to get the best out of Cena.
 
Warner2BruceTD said:
Meltzer ratings for every match:


50. John Cena vs. JBL: WrestleMania 21 *1/4
49. John Cena, Hulk Hogan & Shawn Michaels vs. Christian, Tomko & Chris Jericho: Raw (June 27, 2005)
48. John Cena vs. The Great Khali: Judgment Day 2007 *3/4 (**1/2 to the rematch)
47. John Cena vs. Booker T: SummerSlam 2004 3/4*
46. John Cena & The Rock vs. The Miz & R-Truth: Survivor Series 2011 ***1/2
45. John Cena vs. Kurt Angle: No Mercy 2003 ****1/4
44. WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match: Elimination Chamber 2011 ****
43. John Cena vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison: Extreme Rules 2011 ****
42. John Cena vs. Kane: Elimination Chamber 2012 ***
41. Team WWE vs. The Nexus: Summerslam 2010 ***1/2
40. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge: Backlash 2006 ****1/4
39. John Cena vs. Randy Orton: Summerslam 2007 ****
38. John Cena vs. Chris Jericho: Raw (Aug. 22, 2005) ***1/2
37. John Cena, The Undertaker & DX vs. CM Punk & Legacy: Smackdown (Oct. 2, 2009) ***1/4
36. John Cena vs. Wade Barrett: WWE TLC 2010 ***3/4
35. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar: Backlash 2003 *1/4
34. John Cena vs. The Undertaker: Vengeance 2003 ***1/4
33. John Cena vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Edge: Raw (July 3, 2006) "okay"
32. WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match: New Year's Revolution 2006 ***1/2
31. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Big Show: The 25th Anniversary of WrestleMania ***1/4
30. John Cena vs. Triple H: Raw (Oct. 19, 2009) ***3/4
29. John Cena vs. Eddie Guerrero: SmackDown (Sept. 11, 2003) "entertaining"
28. John Cena & The Undertaker vs. DX vs. Jeri-Show: Raw (Nov. 16, 2009) "all action but short"
27. John Cena vs Batista: Extreme Rules 2010 ****1/4
26. John Cena vs. Sabu: WWE vs. ECW Head to Head (June 7, 2006) "far better than a lot of people feared"
25. John Cena vs. Edge: Backlash 2009 ****1/2
24. John Cena vs. Randy Orton: Breaking Point 2009 ****1/4
23. John Cena vs. Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson: WrestleMania 28 ***3/4
22. John Cena vs. Triple H: Night of Champions 2008 ***3/4
21. John Cena vs. Kurt Angle: No Way Out 2005 ***3/4
20. John Cena vs. JBL: Judgment Day 2005 ****1/4
19. 2008 Royal Rumble Match ****1/4
18. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels: Survivor Series 2009 ***3/4
17. John Cena vs. The Undertaker: Smackdown (June 24, 2004) ***3/4
16. John Cena vs. Big Show: WrestleMania XX *1/4
15. John Cena vs. Rob Van Dam: ECW One Night Stand 2006 ***1/4
14. John Cena vs. Chris Jericho: SummerSlam 2005 ***3/4
13. John Cena vs. Booker T: No Mercy 2004 **1/4
12. John Cena vs. Rey Mysterio: RAW (July 25, 2011) "great"
11. WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match: Elimination Chamber 2010 ***1/2
10. John Cena vs. Kurt Angle: SmackDown (June 27, 2002) "hot deal"
9. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels: WrestleMania 23 ****
8. John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar: Extreme Rules 2012 ****1/4
7. John Cena vs. Batista: Wrestlemania XXVI ***1/2
6. John Cena vs. Umaga: Royal Rumble 2007 ****1/4
5. John Cena vs. CM Punk: Money in the Bank 2011 *****
4. John Cena vs. Triple H: WrestleMania 22 ***3/4
3. John Cena vs. Randy Orton: Bragging Rights 2009 ***1/2
2. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels: RAW (April 23, 2007) ****1/4
1. John Cena vs. Edge: Unforgiven 2006 ****1/4
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lots of *** mediocrity in there in Big Dave's view. Meltzer also really likes a lot of those generic HHH/Orton matches that to me all blend together and are indistinguishable. Edge seems to get the best out of Cena.
Click to expand...

See, I look at all of the 3 and 4 star Cena matches and think..."damn, Cena has had more good matches than I thought."
 
LiquidLarry2GhostWF said:
See, I look at all of the 3 and 4 star Cena matches and think..."damn, Cena has had more good matches than I thought."
Click to expand...

I've always though Big Dave was way too generous when it came to WWE main events. And this is coming from someone who thinks Cena is underrated and takes too much shit from the hardcores.

Granted, i'm not the biggest fan of the WWE "big match" style, but it seems like Meltzer grades on a WWE curve sometimes, whether intentional or not. He used to give classic, and I mean classic, Flair vs Windham matches or vintage All Japan stuff ****, which were fair grades, and i'm supposed to believe some of these Cena vs Batista or Orton matches are on that level? No.
 
He tends to factor a lot of the crowd reaction too which is always (or at least use to) be pretty huge for big WWE main events.
 
I have a bunch of old Observers from the 80's & 90's, and its funny because Dave was such a mark when he was younger. When he was in his 20's, he loved Flair, NWA, and Riki Choshu, and HATED the WWF with a passion and would rip them mercilessly. He was a pretty shitty writer in those days, but the opinions were far less filtered and he spent more time on stuff like workrate. He used to do an annual ranking of the best workers in the business, which after doing my similar list, I can see why he stopped. But he never does stuff like that anynore.

Anyway, the most famous example of his WWF hate was the Hogan/Andre match from WMIII, which he absolutely destroyed and gave something like -*** stars. Years later he changed the rating to *3/4 or something. But NWA mark 20's Meltzer was a lot of fun, with his goofy nicknames like Anabolic Warrior & Junkfood Dog. So unprofessional, so awesome.
 
Warner2BruceTD said:
I've always though Big Dave was way too generous when it came to WWE main events. And this is coming from someone who thinks Cena is underrated and takes too much shit from the hardcores.

Granted, i'm not the biggest fan of the WWE "big match" style, but it seems like Meltzer grades on a WWE curve sometimes, whether intentional or not. He used to give classic, and I mean classic, Flair vs Windham matches or vintage All Japan stuff ****, which were fair grades, and i'm supposed to believe some of these Cena vs Batista or Orton matches are on that level? No.
Click to expand...

WWE main event stuff SHOULD be graded on a curve...

WWE style is so different from stuff on any other level, it needs to be...the more I'm in front of a WWE crowd, the more I realize how difficult it is...you aren't just projecting to the guys in the first 20 rows, you gotta hit the guys in the nosebleeds and the guys at home. It may not be my favorite cup of tea, but I do understand why A) lots of it sucks and B) the very best gets elevated.

The classic definition of workrate kind of gets shakey when you are dealing with performing in crowds of tens of thousands.
 
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