Left 4 Dead: 2

[tigstah]

Achievements were released today, this thread hasn't been updated for a long time lol. Anyone else plan on getting this release day?

yes.....day one.
hopefully i will have time to play...damn 60 hour weeks are killing me.

 

[leaffan]

Fuck this game. I'll wait until ut hits the bargain bin.

I hope nobody bought that fucking DLC either.

And my personal boycott is not so much in defiance of Valve but M$. I know damn well M$ pushed them into the sequel and we all know it was M$'s greedy asses that forced them to charge the console players for that meager DLC.

Umm its consoles in general that fucked over L4D in the content area. Hell they abandoned support for the consoles on TF2 because it was going to cause the same problem.

Microsoft forcing anything on Valve is pretty laughable.

 

[leaffan]

BTW I'm still sticking with not buying the game. Not because of any boycott but because I still don't like the game after all this time. I may have played it 12 hours or something (whatever my steam says) and I just found it boring.

 

[SethMode]

Fuck this game. I'll wait until ut hits the bargain bin.

I hope nobody bought that fucking DLC either.

And my personal boycott is not so much in defiance of Valve but M$. I know damn well M$ pushed them into the sequel and we all know it was M$'s greedy asses that forced them to charge the console players for that meager DLC.

Dude, sometimes, you need to let the MS conspiracy theories go. This is Valve. As Leaffan said, there is no way MS is forcing them to do anything.

That said, I didn't like the first game, so I have even less in a slightly more polished sequel.

 

[Twigg4075]

Umm its consoles in general that fucked over L4D in the content area. Hell they abandoned support for the consoles on TF2 because it was going to cause the same problem.

Microsoft forcing anything on Valve is pretty laughable.

What's laughable is that you think that Valve has more say than the allmighty M$.

Here's just one of many articles as proof.http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/l4d1-dlc-pricing-not-valves-decision

I only mention the 360 because that's the only version Vlave decided they wanted to go with. Valve decided they wanted to partnet with M$ so now they have to play by their rules.

The funny thing is that Sony actually supports mods on the PS3. Unreal Tourney supported them but that game sold like shit.

 

[Twigg4075]

Dude, sometimes, you need to let the MS conspiracy theories go. This is Valve. As Leaffan said, there is no way MS is forcing them to do anything.

That said, I didn't like the first game, so I have even less in a slightly more polished sequel.

Conspiracy theories. LOL.
You're Wrong.

Here's a few more links...
http://www.hlfallout.net/viewnews.php/9598/
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/60365
http://gamerblips.dailyradar.com/story/microsoft-forces-valve-to-price-left-4-dead-dlc-on-360/

 

[SethMode]

Conspiracy theories. LOL.
You're Wrong.

Here's a few more links...
http://www.hlfallout.net/viewnews.php/9598/
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/60365
http://gamerblips.dailyradar.com/story/microsoft-forces-valve-to-price-left-4-dead-dlc-on-360/

None of those mention L4D2...

I understand that I said "forcing them to do anything" but I meant regarding making a whole new game. The logic doesn't make sense. Why would Valve make a whole new game for the 360 and PC just because MS said so? I get MS forcing a charge for DLC because MS hosts the DLC and that's their say. But there is no way they have any leverage in saying "No Valve, you will not make more DLC, you will make a whole new game!"

 

[Twigg4075]

None of those mention L4D2...

I understand that I said "forcing them to do anything" but I meant regarding making a whole new game. The logic doesn't make sense. Why would Valve make a whole new game for the 360 and PC just because MS said so? I get MS forcing a charge for DLC because MS hosts the DLC and that's their say. But there is no way they have any leverage in saying "No Valve, you will not make more DLC, you will make a whole new game!"

My main issue was with the DLC. But yeah, in regards to the quick turn around of the sequel, do you really think Valve would come out and say "Well, the first one was such a hit we knew we could cash in quickly on a sequel"?

It's all but a lock that MS said "Hey, we know you guys are working on a lot of cool new stuff for L4D. Why not just build upon that just a tad and we'll put out a whole new game?"

I'd like to see how things pan out after the release of L4D2. Valve seems to be so contradictory at this point. They smite MS in public by admitting that MS forced them to charge DLC yet they continue to partner with them for an exclusive franchise. I also don't buy the whole "The PS3 is too hard to develop for." Really Valve? You're one of the BIGGEST development companies in the world and you can't deal with it? And yet the PS3 supports mods, something that you have been supporting for years through the community, and you don't want to have anything to do with it?

Do you honestly think that MS is throwing TONS of cash at Valve? Of course they are and because of that they have Valve by the balls, which explains why the L4D DLC costs on the 360.

Look at Epic. They went through the same situation with MS over Gears. They fought tooth and nail to deliver free DLC but MS put the kabash on it because they have the final say so. Epic finally said "Fuck it. UT3 will be a times exclusive for PS3 and it will support mods." Unfortunately for Epic though the game sold like shit, mostly because the user base for PS3 at that time was miniscule.

 

[SethMode]

So because MS is willing to pay for the product that Valve creates, and pay a lot for it, they have Valve by the balls?

I get paid good money to process my clients H-1B applications, but that doesn't mean my firm has me by the balls.

It all comes down to the fact that Valve knows they can make money off of this product, so they're making it. You're choosing to somehow find MS to blame in this, and citing stuff like "it's fishy that they think the PS3 is too hard to develop for" instead of just saying, "Hey Valve isn't owned by MS, and they're likely going to do what makes them the most profit."

 

[Twigg4075]

So because MS is willing to pay for the product that Valve creates, and pay a lot for it, they have Valve by the balls?

I get paid good money to process my clients H-1B applications, but that doesn't mean my firm has me by the balls.

It all comes down to the fact that Valve knows they can make money off of this product, so they're making it. You're choosing to somehow find MS to blame in this, and citing stuff like "it's fishy that they think the PS3 is too hard to develop for" instead of just saying, "Hey Valve isn't owned by MS, and they're likely going to do what makes them the most profit."

The video gaming market is a bit different than your line of work. I just think it's awfully strange that Valve partners with MS for this franchise and not only are they FORCED to charge for DLC on the console version but they have this extremely short turn around for the sequel. What little I know about Valve is that they are a community first company and when it comes to releases of their games it's always been "when it's ready." But then somehow this is the first real foray into console gaming and they turn aroound with a sequel a year later, with a game that doesn't look to build much upon the original. And while I'm at it, I think the original, while fun, was a bare bones effort. For PC gamers I'm sure it was fine because of all the mods they could develop for it. But I thought, as a 360 owner, it definitely wasn't worth $60. And then they tell me they want another $7 for a very small DLC pack. On top of that they want another $60 for a game that has what the first one should've had?

Fuck that.

 

[leaffan]

Good god twigg man.

I'll say it again. MS has no influence on Valve when it comes down to decisions on game and when they make them, what DLC they want to create ect. The only thing MS has control over is content being put out on their marketplace.

The sequel was purely made out of Valves effort. They made the decision themselves and felt the backlash for it.

I laugh at how the whole boycott thing is over because they flew the two nerds out wherever they are to test l4d2. I still think valve should of really held off at least another year with l4d2 but hey I'm not the head marketer guy.

From wiki:

In response to these complaints, Valve marketer Doug Lombardi stated that the announcement of Left 4 Dead 2 at E3 should not be taken to indicate that Valve would no longer support the first game.[9][33] He also noted that what was shown at E3 was only a fraction of the new content and atmosphere for the game.[9] He asked the community to "trust us a little bit", and noted that their team was eager to get new material out to a large body of players of Left 4 Dead and determined that the sequel would be the best option.[23] Lombardi also stated that the most common desire from players was the need for more campaigns, and felt that the addition of these along with new enemies and weapons made the content much more than downloadable content as was the case of Left 4 Dead's "Survival Pack".[23] Both Faliszek and project lead Tom Leonard stated that the team, in putting down ideas to add to the original game, found that too much of the content relied on each other, making incremental patches in the same style as Team Fortress 2 very difficult to do.[20][21] Leonard stated that he suggested rolling up the content into a sequel to be released a year after Left 4 Dead's release, an idea that the rest of the team eventually warmed up to.[20] Faliszek stated that Newell was skeptical of the idea when the team brought the sequel forward, but still allowed the project to go through.[21] Some of the player community has also supported Valve, forming a "L4D Enthusiasts" group in response to the boycott group.

 

[Prodigal Son]

Dude, get rid of your 360 already and quit bitching. We're tired of seeing this shit every week.

 

[SethMode]

I gotta side with Prod on this one Twigg. We get it: you hate MS and your 360. I like you, but you're starting to sound flipping crazy.

 

[Twigg4075]

I hear what you guys are saying. My point was just that it's bullshit that console players get fucked over my M$. Just like with Gears of War (and who knows what else), L4D players are getting screwed over by "the Man".

My other point was that it seemed strange that Valve would go completely against a philosophy that they have followed since theri inception, and that is continued support of their games. Not only have they previously had a "when it's ready" attititude about game releases but they support them with updates/patches/content/etc. for years down the line. The release of L4D completely contradicts that philosophy. It's just awfully coincidentally that the change in philosophy coincides with the recent move to console gaming and partnering with M$.

Call it a conspiracy theory. That's fine and completely understandable. I know Valve is in this to make money, and good for them. But they have been a very successful company in the past because they did things a certain way.

 

[leaffan]

I hear what you guys are saying. My point was just that it's bullshit that console players get fucked over my M$. Just like with Gears of War (and who knows what else), L4D players are getting screwed over by "the Man".

My other point was that it seemed strange that Valve would go completely against a philosophy that they have followed since theri inception, and that is continued support of their games. Not only have they previously had a "when it's ready" attititude about game releases but they support them with updates/patches/content/etc. for years down the line. The release of L4D completely contradicts that philosophy. It's just awfully coincidentally that the change in philosophy coincides with the recent move to console gaming and partnering with M$.

Call it a conspiracy theory. That's fine and completely understandable. I know Valve is in this to make money, and good for them. But they have been a very successful company in the past because they did things a certain way.

Console players dont "get fucked over by M$".

They get fucked over because they are consoles and valve's idea's and way of things are ahead of what consoles can provide.

Seriously man I posted this like 4 months ago.

 

[j.hen]

this is probably gonna be the next game I buy.

 

[Twigg4075]

Console players dont "get fucked over by M$".

They get fucked over because they are consoles and valve's idea's and way of things are ahead of what consoles can provide.

Seriously man I posted this like 4 months ago.

Are you referring to something else besides mods? Because, like I said, mods were available for UT3 on PS3. If Valve made L4D for PS3 and provided the mid tools like Epic did then the argument wouldn't hold water.

I really don't care. I hope the game sells millions of copies so that Valve makes money. Good for them.

I don't blame Valve at all for heading to a console. PC gaming is slowly dying. But why go to a console that is also easy to pirate?

 

[leaffan]

Are you referring to something else besides mods? Because, like I said, mods were available for UT3 on PS3. If Valve made L4D for PS3 and provided the mid tools like Epic did then the argument wouldn't hold water.

I really don't care. I hope the game sells millions of copies so that Valve makes money. Good for them.

I don't blame Valve at all for heading to a console. PC gaming is slowly dying. But why go to a console that is also easy to pirate?

Yes content provided by the publisher. Which isn't classified as a mod which sony would probably charge for. It doesn't matter what system its on.

I'll spell it out again.

The way valve puts out updates they are incremental. In general they put out a ton of little updates. TF2 as an example: http://www.steampowered.com/platform/update_history/index.php?id=440

That is only 2009. The game has been around for 2 years now. Thats 20 updates this year alone. Consoles can't do that. The game files can't be patched and worked like that.

The problem valve has is consoles in general. The way they do things won't work on the PS3. They've came right out and said the PS3 is a pain in the ass to design for and I'm sure I've read somewhere where they are growing tired of microsofts ways.

List of updates we've already recieved on PC: http://store.steampowered.com/news/?filter=updates&appids=500

They had to switch to console because PC gaming is pretty much dead. If anything its begining its little comeback (all be it little) in that things like steam and direct2drive are marking the way for things to come.

Some of the deals we are getting lately are crazy. NBA 2k10 is only $20 and its the same game as the consoles lololol.

 

[Twigg4075]

I'm with you.

 

[Twigg4075]

I got it as my free game after swapping it at Best Buy today. Anyone else actually get it and can possible tear themselves away from fucking MW2?