Madden 10 Info Summary Thread

[Houston]

** Creating sim style Gameplay- New Speed Differential slider, retuned speed ratings, and animation speed improvements. FB Dive fix contained here-in

Nice, I always wanted to know by what 40 times they decided to make the speed ratings.

I'd be 95+

 

[Aso]

NOTE: To be ultra clear, this is NOT the scale we use to determine the speed rating of a player! This showcases how fast a player runs 40 yards currently in our game based on the rating that he is given. Donny determines the actual speed ratings of the players based on many different factors...not just the 40 time of a player.

Very key quote right here. It seems like many ppl have misinterpreted what they were explaining there.

 

[dave]

Originally Posted by Madden NFL 10 Blog
NOTE: To be ultra clear, this is NOT the scale we use to determine the speed rating of a player! This showcases how fast a player runs 40 yards currently in our game based on the rating that he is given. Donny determines the actual speed ratings of the players based on many different factors...not just the 40 time of a player.



Which seems kinda stupid to me. If they run a 4.3 40, their speed rating should reflect that.
Why should some guy arbitrarily decided to downgrade or boost a guy's speed rating?

 

[Aso]

^ Thats not what they are saying.

 

[adembroski]

Originally Posted by Madden NFL 10 Blog
NOTE: To be ultra clear, this is NOT the scale we use to determine the speed rating of a player! This showcases how fast a player runs 40 yards currently in our game based on the rating that he is given. Donny determines the actual speed ratings of the players based on many different factors...not just the 40 time of a player.



Which seems kinda stupid to me. If they run a 4.3 40, their speed rating should reflect that.
Why should some guy arbitrarily decided to downgrade or boost a guy's speed rating?

C'mon, Dave, you're not that simple minded. There's a difference between a guy playing football and a guy running on the turf in Indy after he's been training for that event 8 hours a day for the past 4 months.

Jerry Rice trained for football. Consequently he ran a 4.6 at the combine. They still couldn't catch him. Football isn't a track meet.

 

[dave]

C'mon, Dave, you're not that simple minded. There's a difference between a guy playing football and a guy running on the turf in Indy after he's been training for that event 8 hours a day for the past 4 months.

Jerry Rice trained for football. Consequently he ran a 4.6 at the combine. They still couldn't catch him. Football isn't a track meet.

I absolutely, positively agree the 40 is not the be-all, end-all of sports measurements, but if a guy can run a 4.3, he can run a 4.3.
That's simply the speed attribute.

Other ratings should make receivers matter ... or matter more than those 4.3 guys.

For years, I've been annoyed as hell that Anquan Boldin is nothing more than a journeyman in Madden. It's time to change things like that ... which I think is where they are going.

 

[adembroski]

I absolutely, positively agree the 40 is not the be-all, end-all of sports measurements, but if a guy can run a 4.3, he can run a 4.3.
That's simply the speed attribute.

No. First off, you are almost never at full speed in the NFL. There's a difference between a dead sprint (as you are doing in the 40) and functional speed... the speed at which you can see, react, and read. The simple act of looking for a ball in flight slows you down.

The speed attribute in Madden represents functional speed, not track speed. A track speed attribute would be near useless.

Not only that, the 40 time is an inconsistent measurement. Yes, Indy is the best place to measure it... in a dome, controlled environment, laser timing, that's all great, but I personally was timed 5 times in HS, ran 4.69, 4.52, 4.42, and 5.36. Now, I'm not nearly a 4.42, but I'm sure as hell 5.36 either.

Any scout worth a damn will tell you, you can't compare 40 times. The only real value it has is at the extremes... 4.3 is fast, 4.8 is slow. Anything in between, throw away. If a guy stubbed his toe that morning, it can take a tenth off.

And this shit with measuring in hundreths, wtf is that?!?

Other ratings should make receivers matter ... or matter more than those 4.3 guys.

For years, I've been annoyed as hell that Anquan Boldin is nothing more than a journeyman in Madden. It's time to change things like that ... which I think is where they are going.

And giving him a speed attribute in line with his 40 will do that? I don't think he ran a very good one from what I can remember.

 

[dave]

No. First off, you are almost never at full speed in the NFL. There's a difference between a dead sprint (as you are doing in the 40) and functional speed... the speed at which you can see, react, and read. The simple act of looking for a ball in flight slows you down.

The speed attribute in Madden represents functional speed, not track speed. A track speed attribute would be near useless.

Not only that, the 40 time is an inconsistent measurement. Yes, Indy is the best place to measure it... in a dome, controlled environment, laser timing, that's all great, but I personally was timed 5 times in HS, ran 4.69, 4.52, 4.42, and 5.36. Now, I'm not nearly a 4.42, but I'm sure as hell 5.36 either.

Any scout worth a damn will tell you, you can't compare 40 times. The only real value it has is at the extremes... 4.3 is fast, 4.8 is slow. Anything in between, throw away. If a guy stubbed his toe that morning, it can take a tenth off.

And this shit with measuring in hundreths, wtf is that?!?



And giving him a speed attribute in line with his 40 will do that? I don't think he ran a very good one from what I can remember.

Again, I agree the 40-time isn't the be-all, end-all.

I want Boldin to be a top 10 receiver in Madden for reasons other than speed.

 

[adembroski]

Again, I agree the 40-time isn't the be-all, end-all.

I want Boldin to be a top 10 receiver in Madden for reasons other than speed.

You're missing my point here. 40 time being the end-all be-all of receiving isn't in question. The point you made was that it is the end all, be all of speed, and that's the point I'm contending.

 

[adembroski]

** Donny Moore has stated that salary cap increases are being returned in franchise mode and are, at the time of his statement, were in fact increasing too little. Player salaries are being retuned to fall in line with this, but ultimately it means no more ridiculous cap room figures.

 

[dave]

You're missing my point here. 40 time being the end-all be-all of receiving isn't in question. The point you made was that it is the end all, be all of speed, and that's the point I'm contending.

I guess I am, because IMO, the be-all, end-all of the speed rating should be a guy's 40 speed.
I'm not saying it's right, it is what it is.
Unless EA comes up with a "game speed" rating where guys like Jerry Rice are invincible (as they should be), the speed rating is merely a rating of a guy's speed IMO, which is why Hester has a 100 and Boldin doesn't.
That doesn't make Hester the better receiver (he obviously isn't), but he's clearly faster than Boldin.
What's the point of having a "speed" rating if it isn't reflected accurately?

EA has to find a way to make speed only one component of what makes a player great ... and why the Raiders are a consistent 3-13 team.

 

[adembroski]

I guess I am, because IMO, the be-all, end-all of the speed rating should be a guy's 40 speed.
I'm not saying it's right, it is what it is.
Unless EA comes up with a "game speed" rating where guys like Jerry Rice are invincible (as they should be), the speed rating is merely a rating of a guy's speed IMO, which is why Hester has a 100 and Boldin doesn't.
That doesn't make Hester the better receiver (he obviously isn't), but he's clearly faster than Boldin.
What's the point of having a "speed" rating if it isn't reflected accurately?

EA has to find a way to make speed only one component of what makes a player great ... and why the Raiders are a consistent 3-13 team.

That's the problem... 40 times are not accurate reflections of speed, because all of the ratings in Madden are "game" ratings.

 

[adembroski]

* Ian Cummings mentioned that a new system was added for in-game stat banners in Madden 09 that is bearing fruit for '10. Adding new stat graphics for in-game presentation.

 

[adembroski]

* Madden 10 will not have interactive sidelines, but the same "dummy" players are previous years.

 

[Saluki]

* Madden 10 will not have interactive sidelines, but the same "dummy" players are previous years.

Honestly as long as the gameplay is good then i could care less if they save some disk space by having shitty sidelines. How often do u look at the sidelines anyway.

 

[Aso]

yea they already fixed the suction sack.

 

[Houston]

* Madden 10 will not have interactive sidelines, but the same "dummy" players are previous years.

I'm starting to think that this guy is Ian Cummings. He doesn't post anywhere else on teh boards he just gives us madden updates.

 

[adembroski]

I'm starting to think that this guy is Ian Cummings. He doesn't post anywhere else on teh boards he just gives us madden updates.

I post occassionally in the locker room, and I have an NFL Head Coach report in Franchises, Dynasties, Associations, etc.. That actually takes up most of my posting time. My job has me sitting at a computer 8 hours a day, so I spend a lot of time online.

lol naw. he just reads the post ian makes at OS.

And on twitter, and Donny Moore, Josh Looman, Phil Frazier, and Michael Young in addition to Ian. Ian posts the most. I just got sick of all the information being all over the damn place so I made a thread on MM consolidating it, someone asked for it on OS, so I started copy/pasting it there, and then I figured, hell, if I'm gonna post here too, I might as well bring it over.

Actually got the idea from following Empire: Total War development over on totalwar.org. They had a thread like this, then the person stopped updating it, which left me out in the cold for information because I hate scouring for it.

Now look at me... every day I'm scouring OS and twitter for info I dunno, caught up in it. I've been away from Madden for several years, and really haven't been addicted too it since about 2001, I guess this new team is sort of getting me back into the spirit.

Plus it's kinda fun. I write blogs over on OS for the hell of it, makes me feel all importanty even though I'm not. Okay, makes me feel helpful and productive, I guess. Better than sitting idle staring at my computer screen at work. I get a very small taste of Pasta's world

Hell, if I had any HTML skills, I'd consider building my own sports gaming site similar to Pasta's... problem is, I'm not nearly as interested in some of the sports he covers, so it really wouldn't be a contest. Basketball, for instance, I couldn't care less about, so what can I tell you about Live vs. NBA 2k? He'd smash me. I'd have to take a much different approach. Maybe focus on Madden, get into the strategy of it? I dunno... it'd be a waste if Madden 10 ends up like Madden 09, because I'm sure as hell never getting this worked up about it again if it doesn't pan out.

 

[adembroski]

I'm starting to think that this guy is Ian Cummings. He doesn't post anywhere else on teh boards he just gives us madden updates.

And if I was Ian Cummings, I wouldn't have left him out in the cold on that post. Someone got all pissy with him over that statement over on MM, so I kinda feel I should post the specific quote I got this from.

Oh how I wish this wasn't the case! I feel so defeated when it comes to interactive sidelines.

Glorious Arc you are correct, there are a lot of 'clones' throughout the crowd and sidelines. They do actually animate during the play, but sometimes the camera guys and other random 'non players' animation data isn't saved into the replay (this is because of memory constraints...RAM, not HD).

As I think everyone is well aware, EVERY company that moved to 360 / PS3 went nuts on graphics. Well when the planning was done for graphical level of detail here at Tiburon, it was done to get the a.) absolute maximum amount of detail on 22 players on the field and b) insanely high-res stadiums. Extra characters really weren't considered because the player detail was so important, which is why it's been so hard getting new stuff in. That's why you haven't seen coaches in realtime on the sideline, or refs or chain gang either. All the initial planning and asset creation for the transition was done for 22 guys (at 30fps btw)...so it's been extremely difficult to make big global reductions as well as maintain 60 fps. Also, now that people are used to the visual fidelity of the game, we would take a lot of heat if the game started looking much worse graphically. I only wish that we had accounted for like 50 full-res guys.

APF2k8 decided to reduce the overall quality on their players, stadiums, environments, etc a little bit in order to have 22 EXTRA full-res players on the sidelines (instead of basic low-res clones). That's how they got the really killer interactions where the players catch you or you roll them over or whatever. I loved those...and no, those won't be in Madden NFL 10.

Personally (and I am not expressing the opinion of anyone else or of my employers), I'm of the mindset that MORE fully interactive characters = more immersion and "wow moments" to the user than having insane detail with fewer characters. Case in point - Dead Rising:

I really could care less what the graphics look like when I truly feel 100% immersed in that world (and in the story) because there are always 800 zombies around. I think NBA 2k has done an amazing job here as well - the guys get up for subs, the dude comes out and mops, and it's all realtime (they do have the luxury of a relatively tiny environment and only 10 players in the action at once though too).

So what do you guys think? As we move to the future, what is more important to you? Would you rather have the extra details (like the holes in the jerseys), or much less details on the players and the environment and more extra characters (that animate in a smarter manner) around the playing field? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

So, yeah, it's not like he's thrilled that it's not there. It just isn't.

My personal view? I liked the interactive sidelines in APF, and the graphics were "good enough", so I'll take 'em... my concern this year is time. There are far bigger fish to fry right now, and from what I've seen so far, they've got their focus in the right places. This would be the way way wrong place at this point.

 

[bucky]

adem,

Any word on Madden's availability on the PC?

Hard to get excited until I know it will be available.